2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[kg01]

What if I told you Mitchell Robinson is the Best shot blocker out of any rookie and of one the best all time to enter the NBA.

That his ceiling is unlimited, the highest in this draft class.

Your jokes are corny. Look at you trying to start schit, but cry about those Hawk fans starting something. Go sit down somewhere.

Lol. I'm bowing out of the struggle so i guess we'll see how much trouble the other Hawk fans (all 2 of us) can keep causing.

It's the Kings fans' turn now, i guess.

[Bob8]

Perhaps we have a different definition of ceiling. To me ceiling is your raw physical and mental capabilities: Your BBIQ, your acceleration (mentioned in the article), your leaping quickness and height, your hand size and arm span, your speed end to end, your depth perception.

Skills are learned and you can become more skilled but the progression of Skills is hyperbolic. This can obviously be seen by charting the paths and careers of any professional athlete. If skills were not hyperbolic than players careers would never plateau and decline.

Luka is very very skilled. That statement is a compliment. He has honed that skill with 4 years of NBA coaching and visiting places like P3. But it also means he is further down the hyperbolic curve of skills. A curve that by definition is hyperbolic in shape. To not acknowledge he as less room for improvement is to magically state the skills curve is suddenly a straight line for Luka when it’s hyperbolic for everyone else. And sorry that kind of pixie dust only exists in the minds of ardent Luka fan boys.

I see you have very vivid imagination for your player and very limited for Luka. Understandable. I have very limited imagination too, so I will take 28/8/8 Luka over unlimited Bagley everyday.

Not imagination. It’s called logic which seems to escape many of the Luka fan boys.

Watching Bagley, logic tells me he won’t develop elite skills.

[IllmaticHandler]

That his ceiling is unlimited, the highest in this draft class.

Your jokes are corny. Look at you trying to start schit, but cry about those Hawk fans starting something. Go sit down somewhere.

Someone explain to me that Bagley has higher ceiling than Luka because athleticism cannot be develop and skills can. So logic tells me if Robinson develops elite skills, he will be better than everyone, because of his special body.

Go Find you a toy to play with. IDC what another person said. The Point remains your reply was corny and had nothing to do with what I said, but to say something foolish cause of what some other person told u about luka. Like I said you crying about Hawks fans talking about Luka and are employing the same tactics.

[Bob8]

Your jokes are corny. Look at you trying to start schit, but cry about those Hawk fans starting something. Go sit down somewhere.

Someone explain to me that Bagley has higher ceiling than Luka because athleticism cannot be develop and skills can. So logic tells me if Robinson develops elite skills, he will be better than everyone, because of his special body.

Go Find you a toy to play with. IDGAF what another person said. The Point remains your reply was corny had nothing to do with what I said, but to say something foolish cause of what some other person told u about luka. Like I said you crying about Hawks fans and are employing the same tactics.

You must got something wrong, Hawks fans are crying not me.

[Sactowndog]

I see you have very vivid imagination for your player and very limited for Luka. Understandable. I have very limited imagination too, so I will take 28/8/8 Luka over unlimited Bagley everyday.

Not imagination. It’s called logic which seems to escape many of the Luka fan boys.

Watching Bagley, logic tells me he won’t develop elite skills.

You may well be right. We shall see in 3 years how good your logic is.

[Sactowndog]

That his ceiling is unlimited, the highest in this draft class.

Your jokes are corny. Look at you trying to start schit, but cry about those Hawk fans starting something. Go sit down somewhere.

Lol. I'm bowing out of the struggle so i guess we'll see how much trouble the other Hawk fans (all 2 of us) can keep causing.

It's the Kings fans' turn now, i guess.

Nah I don’t want carry this battle long. Although due to Mav’s fans I’m happy to see Luka go 2-9 from 3 and 5-9 on FT’s. Apparently they are right he has plenty room for improvement.

[Ball4life32]

All this hoopla... if the Mavs called you up and said, “Hey, straight swap Luka for Trae” would you do it? The answer is yes, so these arguments are immaterial.

And honestly, Luka’s size is a big factor in why he’s more valuable. The league is bigger and faster, a 6’7” guy who plays like a PG is a huge benefit compared to a relatively slight guy like Trae. He’s just harder to pair with. Steph is the greatest shooter of all time, plus he’s paired with a bigger guard who complements him perfectly in Klay. It’s hard to find those guys, you end up with a Lillard/McCollum more often than not (great, but unlikely to ever be ring caliber). Plus straight PGs are less valuable than ever, there are what, 20-25 starting quality ones atm? The beauty of Luka is you can complement him with smaller guards while he runs the offense from the 3 (he’s the 3rd guard in Rick’s beloved 3 guard lineups).

Honestly, I see Trae’s likely career as Jet Terry. Great dude, champion, plays forever, but not the centerpiece of your team.

Trae has a much higher ceiling than Jason Terry. Jet was always more of an undersized SG...averaged 3.8 assists for his career. Trae is doubling that as a rookie. Trae was way ahead of him offensively at the same stage.

[LKN]

Why are people saying Luka is "unathletic"? There's more to athleticism than running and jumping..... in fact I'd argue those things are somewhat overrated.

Other components of athleticism:

- Hand Eye coordination
- Body Control
- Agility
- Quickness

Doncic rates very highly in several of these... and I hate to compare him to Larry Bird (since EVERY white player gets compared to Bird)... but he really does remind me of him to some degree. Note that I'm NOT SAYING LUKA IS AS GOOD AS BIRD!!!!!!!! (He's got a long way to go!)

Bird was another guy that people called "unathletic" even though he really wasn't.

Bird was insanely coordinated, had great body control and was deceptively quick. Sounds just like Doncic doesn't it?

Bird was also a pretty good defender despite myths to the contrary (particularly a good team defender). Again reminds me of Doncic, who's quite a bit better at defense than people think.

Despite people thinking Bird was "not that athletic" he was able to get where he wanted to on the floor and get his shot off whenever he needed to..... again, just like Doncic.

Both players are/were really good at varying their speed/pace while dribbling and then using their deceptive quickness to get by people.

Bird was 6-10. What's athletic for him and Luka is different.

Luka is a decent athlete, but a below average athlete, especially right now since he's built like a regular teen. Once he gets in shape he'll probably be a good athlete. He's not really quick, not at all fast, but he has good size and great strength for his age.

Athletically Luka is kinda like Paul Pierce.

Calling him a below average athlete is ridiculous. No below average athlete would be able to do what he's doing right now against the best players in the world. I do agree with your larger point that once he gets after it with professional trainers that he'll improve quite a bit. I mean he's never going to be Lebron or MJ athletically... but he's plenty quick and agile, esp considering his size. I disagree that he's not quick, he's deceptively quick and can stop on a dime.

Also - Bird was 6'9" and more slight than Luka... the size difference isn't that much.

[Imon]

I got to say, at first I hated reading this thread because of how cancerous it has gotten but thinking about it further and imagining all the angry fans hate-typing about other teams rookies is actually pretty funny to me.

[Sactowndog]

Damm. Luka has been an all time chucker since Jan. 1. 8.3 attempts from 3 at 31.2%. 7.2 free throws at 66.2%. That sucks. I didn’t realize he was that bad.

[Johnny Firpo]

There's been multiple threads and posts about how dumb the Hawks were for trading Luka and how its one of the worst trades ever. You can't be reading the same board we are posting on.

Did you just read what I wrote? They were not started by Mavs fans.

[Johnny Firpo]

Damm. Luka has been an all time chucker since Jan. 1. 8.3 attempts from 3 at 31.2%. 7.2 free throws at 66.2%. That sucks. I didn’t realize he was that bad.

It's hilarious that you are calling him a chucker, and to illustrate your point, you are quoting how much he gets to the line. Brilliant stuff.

[Imon]

Damm. Luka has been an all time chucker since Jan. 1. 8.3 attempts from 3 at 31.2%. 7.2 free throws at 66.2%. That sucks. I didn’t realize he was that bad.

It's hilarious that you are calling him a chucker, and to illustrate your point, you are quoting how much he gets to the line. Brilliant stuff.

C'mon man, this is obvious trolling and you just took the bait.

[Johnny Firpo]

Trae has a much higher ceiling than Jason Terry. Jet was always more of an undersized SG...averaged 3.8 assists for his career. Trae is doubling that as a rookie. Trae was way ahead of him offensively at the same stage.

He definitely has. Much better ball handler and better passing instincts, they are not close as prospects. Jet was perfect for the 6th man role, and that's where he should have played for the vast majority of his career. Dallas legend, but not the talent Young is.

[E-Balla]

What if I told you Mitchell Robinson is the Best shot blocker out of any rookie and of one the best all time to enter the NBA.

At this point that's a statistical fact. Manute Bol is the only person to ever have a double digit block percentage and Mitch is at 9.9 right now. If you add in his 1.8 steal percentage it gets even crazier because a 1.5+ steal percentage is rare for a big.

[E-Balla]

There's been multiple threads and posts about how dumb the Hawks were for trading Luka and how its one of the worst trades ever. You can't be reading the same board we are posting on.

Did you just read what I wrote? They were not started by Mavs fans.

I never said they were. You won't hear me saying a thing about Dallas fans just the Lukastans similar to the Kobestans and how they weren't really Lakers fans.

Also you literally just said the other day I implied Luka wasn't good by saying he'd find defense in the NBA tougher if the rules didn't restrict defense (which is literally true for everyone in the league) so its funny to me you're separating yourself from the Lukastans when you're just as bad as them.

[IllmaticHandler]

What if I told you Mitchell Robinson is the Best shot blocker out of any rookie and of one the best all time to enter the NBA.

At this point that's a statistical fact. Manute Bol is the only person to ever have a double digit block percentage and Mitch is at 9.9 right now. If you add in his 1.8 steal percentage it gets even crazier because a 1.5+ steal percentage is rare for a big.

[E-Balla]

Why are people saying Luka is "unathletic"? There's more to athleticism than running and jumping..... in fact I'd argue those things are somewhat overrated.

Other components of athleticism:

- Hand Eye coordination
- Body Control
- Agility
- Quickness

Doncic rates very highly in several of these... and I hate to compare him to Larry Bird (since EVERY white player gets compared to Bird)... but he really does remind me of him to some degree. Note that I'm NOT SAYING LUKA IS AS GOOD AS BIRD!!!!!!!! (He's got a long way to go!)

Bird was another guy that people called "unathletic" even though he really wasn't.

Bird was insanely coordinated, had great body control and was deceptively quick. Sounds just like Doncic doesn't it?

Bird was also a pretty good defender despite myths to the contrary (particularly a good team defender). Again reminds me of Doncic, who's quite a bit better at defense than people think.

Despite people thinking Bird was "not that athletic" he was able to get where he wanted to on the floor and get his shot off whenever he needed to..... again, just like Doncic.

Both players are/were really good at varying their speed/pace while dribbling and then using their deceptive quickness to get by people.

Bird was 6-10. What's athletic for him and Luka is different.

Luka is a decent athlete, but a below average athlete, especially right now since he's built like a regular teen. Once he gets in shape he'll probably be a good athlete. He's not really quick, not at all fast, but he has good size and great strength for his age.

Athletically Luka is kinda like Paul Pierce.

Calling him a below average athlete is ridiculous. No below average athlete would be able to do what he's doing right now against the best players in the world. I do agree with your larger point that once he gets after it with professional trainers that he'll improve quite a bit. I mean he's never going to be Lebron or MJ athletically... but he's plenty quick and agile, esp considering his size. I disagree that he's not quick, he's deceptively quick and can stop on a dime.

Also - Bird was 6'9" and more slight than Luka... the size difference isn't that much.

There's been plenty of unathletic players to dominate in the NBA. Luka isn't the first and won't be the last. I mean Jokic is built like a grandfather and slow as molasses. Turns out being good at basketball doesn't require you being a super athlete.

Anyone watching Luka and thinking anything but his strength is above average athletically is blind. He's quick but it's the NBA most guys are, his handles separate him from the pack not his quickness. Kyrie is the same way. Look at someone like D. Rose and they blow by people with their first step, that's quickness. Luka is like Paul Pierce where he uses his change of pace and handle to beat guys not quickness.

And Bird was 6-9 barefoot, 6-10 NBA height (aka in shoes). He was slight but it was the 80s (the average NBA player is like 20 pounds heavier now than in 1980) and he was able to make plays Luka can only dream of.

Watch on YouTube

The myth that he was unathletic needs to go somewhere Bird wasn't a super athlete but he was definitely above average.

[stilldropin20]

Bird was 6-10. What's athletic for him and Luka is different.

Luka is a decent athlete, but a below average athlete, especially right now since he's built like a regular teen. Once he gets in shape he'll probably be a good athlete. He's not really quick, not at all fast, but he has good size and great strength for his age.

Athletically Luka is kinda like Paul Pierce.

Calling him a below average athlete is ridiculous. No below average athlete would be able to do what he's doing right now against the best players in the world. I do agree with your larger point that once he gets after it with professional trainers that he'll improve quite a bit. I mean he's never going to be Lebron or MJ athletically... but he's plenty quick and agile, esp considering his size. I disagree that he's not quick, he's deceptively quick and can stop on a dime.

Also - Bird was 6'9" and more slight than Luka... the size difference isn't that much.

There's been plenty of unathletic players to dominate in the NBA. Luka isn't the first and won't be the last. I mean Jokic is built like a grandfather and slow as molasses. Turns out being good at basketball doesn't require you being a super athlete.

Anyone watching Luka and thinking anything but his strength is above average athletically is blind. He's quick but it's the NBA most guys are, his handles separate him from the pack not his quickness. Kyrie is the same way. Look at someone like D. Rose and they blow by people with their first step, that's quickness. Luka is like Paul Pierce where he uses his change of pace and handle to beat guys not quickness.

And Bird was 6-9 barefoot, 6-10 NBA height (aka in shoes). He was slight but it was the 80s (the average NBA player is like 20 pounds heavier now than in 1980) and he was able to make plays Luka can only dream of.

Watch on YouTube

The myth that he was unathletic needs to go somewhere Bird wasn't a super athlete but he was definitely above average.

larry bird's was prolly above average athlete for being 6'9" in shoes. slightly above average. but he was physically stronger than most players and mentally stronger than almost every single player in the entire league and his mind moved something like twice as fast as the the average NBA player.

Bird played 3d chess while most played checkers. the only guy better than (or as good as) bird during the 80's was magic johnson.

and both would be MVP candidates today. luka doncic has proven that. Elite skills and good athleticism trumps good skills and elite athleticsm every single time.

[Bob8]

Your jokes are corny. Look at you trying to start schit, but cry about those Hawk fans starting something. Go sit down somewhere.

Lol. I'm bowing out of the struggle so i guess we'll see how much trouble the other Hawk fans (all 2 of us) can keep causing.

It's the Kings fans' turn now, i guess.

Nah I don’t want carry this battle long. Although due to Mav’s fans I’m happy to see Luka go 2-9 from 3 and 5-9 on FT’s. Apparently they are right he has plenty room for improvement.

Lets look how many times Bagley scored 21/10/8? hmm...He’s pretty raw, we should lower the bar, lets look only points. Yes, that gives us better result. 3 games with 21 points or more. Against second units of course. I heard that he totally destroyed Bender.