NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[HotRocks34]

^ 45/10/10 (or better) average over his last 5 games [Luka; from the info on the tweet put up on the post before mine]

That's pretty nuts.

Also, Mavs 5-0 in those games.

[Yuri36]

NBA.com MVP ladder from yesterday. This is after Luka's 60 point game.

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-30-2022-edition

1. Jokic..................was 2
2. Tatum.................was 3
3. Luka...................was T7
4. Durant................was 4
5. Giannis...............was 1

Tatum has been great but he should not be in the top 3 of that discussion, let alone above Doncic.
Team record is almost irrelevant in that case considering how much tougher western conference is and how much better Celtics roster is comparing to Mavs or Nuggets rosters (just J.Brown is on a whole different level to any Doncic's teammate for example)

[CobraCommander]

NBA.com MVP ladder from yesterday. This is after Luka's 60 point game.

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-30-2022-edition

1. Jokic..................was 2
2. Tatum.................was 3
3. Luka...................was T7
4. Durant................was 4
5. Giannis...............was 1

After Giannis 40 20 +40 20...he gonna move up

The one going up is Luka. Vegas has him first already.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/

Vegas has him first and they don’t pick the mvp...the pick who the money thinks is the mvp....the sports writers have him 3rd or 4th with Tatum and Jokic ahead...

Bob we have been over this....fandom and facts...two different things lol....


Luka could win but Giannis is going up after his 40 20s

[CobraCommander]

This is just wild. I'm joking but our generation is saying "Since Wilt"... Next will be saying "Since Luka".

Read on Twitter

That’s hilarious and true

[Exp0sed]

Can't please ya'll on this thread. With Embiid there's always an if. Any other player we do this with?

Let's be consistent...

I don't count Jokic because of a lack of rings. You can roast me all you want, I think it sets a bad precedent, regardless of how gaudy his numbers are. At some point they need to translate to chips.

If Philly hadn't just dropped the last 2 I'd have Embiid over Durant.

you don't count Jokic because of lack of rings but you do "count" Embiid and advocated for him being MVP for at least the last 3 seasons? how many rings does Embiid have?

despite zero playoff success despite playing on much better rosters thanJokic has?

that's a good one

What about KG, Malone etc.?
should they have not been "counted" either?

I didn't watch the game tonight, so i'll reserve judgement on it but from the boxscore it seems to corrobarate what I keep saying: Embiid is playing the wrong way

Harris was a very good player before Embiid
A guy like Milton whose a starter and can def explode and play at a high NBA level when given the chance (like he has shown when he did get spot starts) - are all all very good players marginilzed by Embiid being a black hole and forcing a ton of shots at medium efficiency just to chase accolades and scoring records

as a team, both in the regular season and especially in the playoffs - 76ers like any other team are far more dangerous when ALL players share the ball and play a winning brand of basketball and that has to start with their number one guy i.e Embiid

Centerless OKC isn't the best of tests but u can only play whose against you obviously

Embiid still has time to turn his career around, he has alot of talent and unstoppable physique

the 76ers are really stacked, before this season I thought they could mount a serious run even go all the way, they certainly have the talent and the right pieces (outside of Doc) but it won't happen if Embiid's focus is on being passed over for accolades by better player who are doing more or by filling his own head with talks about "best scorer ever" and all that far fetched ridicilous nonsense

hope it's a step in the right direction for him

again like i said, I didn't watch the game (nor highlights) i'll try and watch it later

[Exp0sed]

switched my vote from Jokic to Luka

I don't think Nikola is giving it a 100% this season
I suspect its because they are generally winning and trying to integrate Murray, MPJ etc. and possibly other reasons as well

it's incredible what he was able to accomplish even in 2nd gear and I don't think Luka is playing with less btw

I really like Wood and other pieces they have and on the Nuggets, Murray has been really meh and MPJ is just on another level of being a selfish player (and wasn't very good + injured)
he's a great shooter MPJ is, but incredibly lacking in other areas especially mentally

however Luka has been giving a 100% every night (didn't like those load-managing games but perhaps that's not his decision)

with Dallas back to winning ways and Luka doing what he's doing in the way he's doing it - he's number #1 atm
he has been the most dominant player this seaon and he's doing it very consistently as well moreso than in past seasons - what's he's been able to do is incredible

still alot of season to go, a lot can happen but as of now - changed my vote

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=K7TssjIVYwClxZlfIXQJ-Q Luka got mvp award right now

[Wolfgang630]

Gotta put Luka #1 now

[Zespetjest]

I like how no one mentions that Mavs are heavily undermanned (top 3 if 4 defenders are out), but all are quick to point out how any other player is playing some games without his co-star. Maxi, Dodo and Green are Mavs starters or 1st off the bench and are their maybe even top 3 defenders this season as Bullock is really struggling with shooting and not as good on defence as last year.

[Inspektor1312]

Luka is on another planet at the moment.

[Dirk]

Luka Mahomes the other night.

Now Luka Diggs

[BruttoNostra]

Luka Mahomes the other night.

Now Luka Diggs

That.
The perception of "Luka is bad on D" is so old.
Yes, he might coast from time to time.
Yes, he's mostly assigned other team's 4th or 5th offensive weapon.
And yet he isn't a liability on D, he can easily switch on most of other players (except maybe ultra fast small guards like Ja or Curry).
Most of big guys can't play bully ball against him.
He's got an incredible BBIQ on D as well, like in that 3rd video, where he guides Wright on D - for me it's much more impressive than reading a passing line and getting a steal.
No, I wouldn't vote for him for All D team, but he also isn't a liability there for sure.

[CharityStripe34]

This thread is hilarious. Pretty soon guys will start updating "MVP ladders" quarter by quarter.

[BmanInBigD]

Luka Mahomes the other night.

Now Luka Diggs

That.
The perception of "Luka is bad on D" is so old.
Yes, he might coast from time to time.
Yes, he's mostly assigned other team's 4th or 5th offensive weapon.
And yet he isn't a liability on D, he can easily switch on most of other players (except maybe ultra fast small guards like Ja or Curry).
Most of big guys can't play bully ball against him.
He's got an incredible BBIQ on D as well, like in that 3rd video, where he guides Wright on D - for me it's much more impressive than reading a passing line and getting a steal.
No, I wouldn't vote for him for All D team, but he also isn't a liability there for sure.

Except for that one quarter (half?) vs Chris Paul in the playoffs last year, Luka has been a pretty solid defender the last couple of seasons. Yes, he does loaf on occasion and yell at the refs instead of getting back on D still, but overall I'm plenty happy with his D. It's just hard to dispel the reputation he's had for years. He's up to 37% 3-point shooting for the season, which is about where I always thought he'd end up after a first couple of seasons of poor shooting from there. Mavs keep winning, he should definitely be in the top 2-3 convo for MVP when it' said and done. Joker's obviously playing fantastic too, though. Tatum, meh. Giannis, IDK. Embiid, not with how they play and with Harden on the team. "Best player on the best team" is lame. Should be "best player that helps his team the most of a legitimate contender".

[Cubbies2120]

Changing my vote from Jokic to Luka because of the video game numbers that are also translating to wins

[Mickey8]

Its his award to lose. All he has to do is to make the post season and its locked for him .

[ty 4191]

This is just wild. I'm joking but our generation is saying "Since Wilt"... Next will be saying "Since Luka".

Read on Twitter

It's a really amazing stretch, but, it comes with a couple major caveats.

Point 1: Scoring Inflation:

There have been 82 40 point games already this season, and it's only ~40% of the way done (1,076 total games). Consider, in 1997-1998, there were 34 40 point games during the ENTIRE RS (2,378 games).

LeBron James (at ages 37-38) has averaged 30 PPG across 84 games the past two seasons. He's averaging more PPG than he ever did in a single season and he's ancient now.

So...how much easier is it for scorers today vs. previous eras? I wonder how peak/prime MJ would score today?

https://basketnews.com/news-168319-luka-doncic-explained-why-its-easier-to-score-in-the-nba-than-in-euroleague.html

"Basketball in EuroLeague it's more team basketball, it's more tactics, and you have less time. NBA is tougher to play because you have many players that are basically impossible to guard", Doncic said. "But I would say that scoring is easier in the NBA just because of the different rules, the amount of space, the time, so that's why I said it's easier to score in the NBA."

"Scoring 30 points in a Euroleague game, it's harder than in an NBA game, 100% percent. I'm just saying this because of the rules."

Point 2: Strength of opponents

-2 games vs. Rockets (28th in dRtg)
-1 game vs. Lakers (22nd in dRtg)
-1 game vs. Knicks (10th in rRtg...(ok, this one was the real deal.)
-1 game vs. Spurs (30th in dRtg)

[ty 4191]

Luka
Tatum
Durant
Embiid
Jokic

I don't count Jokic because of a lack of rings. You can roast me all you want.

You don't count Jokic because of lack of rings, but you hold Embiid up as your Personal God and his teams haven't gone past the semis. And Embiid had much better teammates, overall, than Jokic has since both started making the playoffs.

How's that for internal consistency? Do you even see your own biases and your inherent contradiction here?

[Archx]

Spoiler:

This is just wild. I'm joking but our generation is saying "Since Wilt"... Next will be saying "Since Luka".

Read on Twitter

It's a really amazing stretch, but, it comes with a couple major caveats.

Point 1: Scoring Inflation:

There have been 82 40 point games already this season, and it's only ~40% of the way done (1,076 total games). Consider, in 1997-1998, there were 34 40 point games during the ENTIRE RS (2,378 games).

LeBron James (at ages 37-38) has averaged 30 PPG across 84 games the past two seasons. He's averaging more PPG than he ever did in a single season and he's ancient now.

So...how much easier is it for scorers today vs. previous eras? I wonder how peak/prime MJ would score today?

https://basketnews.com/news-168319-luka-doncic-explained-why-its-easier-to-score-in-the-nba-than-in-euroleague.html

"Basketball in EuroLeague it's more team basketball, it's more tactics, and you have less time. NBA is tougher to play because you have many players that are basically impossible to guard", Doncic said. "But I would say that scoring is easier in the NBA just because of the different rules, the amount of space, the time, so that's why I said it's easier to score in the NBA."

"Scoring 30 points in a Euroleague game, it's harder than in an NBA game, 100% percent. I'm just saying this because of the rules."

Point 2: Strength of opponents

-2 games vs. Rockets (28th in dRtg)
-1 game vs. Lakers (22nd in dRtg)
-1 game vs. Knicks (10th in rRtg...(ok, this one was the real deal.)
-1 game vs. Spurs (30th in dRtg)

Well yeah but it's also impressive because Mavs needed every bit of his scoring and assisting. So it wasn't forced it just happened naturally and it kickstarted Mavs winning streak. We can blame Kidd or FO or players themselves, but Mavs really needed that.

[mpoo_sin]

Spoiler:

This is just wild. I'm joking but our generation is saying "Since Wilt"... Next will be saying "Since Luka".

Read on Twitter

It's a really amazing stretch, but, it comes with a couple major caveats.

Point 1: Scoring Inflation:

There have been 82 40 point games already this season, and it's only ~40% of the way done (1,076 total games). Consider, in 1997-1998, there were 34 40 point games during the ENTIRE RS (2,378 games).

LeBron James (at ages 37-38) has averaged 30 PPG across 84 games the past two seasons. He's averaging more PPG than he ever did in a single season and he's ancient now.

So...how much easier is it for scorers today vs. previous eras? I wonder how peak/prime MJ would score today?

https://basketnews.com/news-168319-luka-doncic-explained-why-its-easier-to-score-in-the-nba-than-in-euroleague.html

"Basketball in EuroLeague it's more team basketball, it's more tactics, and you have less time. NBA is tougher to play because you have many players that are basically impossible to guard", Doncic said. "But I would say that scoring is easier in the NBA just because of the different rules, the amount of space, the time, so that's why I said it's easier to score in the NBA."

"Scoring 30 points in a Euroleague game, it's harder than in an NBA game, 100% percent. I'm just saying this because of the rules."

Point 2: Strength of opponents

-2 games vs. Rockets (28th in dRtg)
-1 game vs. Lakers (22nd in dRtg)
-1 game vs. Knicks (10th in rRtg...(ok, this one was the real deal.)
-1 game vs. Spurs (30th in dRtg)

Well yeah but it's also impressive because Mavs needed every bit of his scoring and assisting. So it wasn't forced it just happened naturally and it kickstarted Mavs winning streak. We can blame Kidd or FO or players themselves, but Mavs really needed that.

Prior to the winning streak they were the best Western Conference team against teams over .500 and one of the worst against teams below .500