NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

[Exp0sed]

8-1 and beat the Warriors without Jamal Murray.

No one is close to Jokic right now.

Embiid will have the narrative the same way Westbrook won in 2017 when KD left him in OKC. 31/11/5 in 60+ TS% with the Sixers having the best record in the NBA and Embiid winning the scoring title for 3rd straight year will get it done.

Embiid will have the narrative? how so?

last season all we heard from 76ers fans was how Harden was trash and not even an "all star" despite leading the league in assists and being being left out of the AS game because of a long injury that caused him to miss significant time

are Maxey, Harris etc (playing like they have been playing) on some different tier as player than guys like AG, Murray or MPJ? come on now...

Murray has played poorly and now isn't playing at all and is out for a while, meanwhile Jokic is making Reggie frigging Jackson to look and produce like Murray, lmfao

Harden wasn't the problem in Philly - Doc was. every NBA fan knew this all along and wrote about it a thousand times.
replacing the worst coach in the league with an actual NBA coach is a big deal, especially since a guy like Embiid really needs good coaching

as for narrative, like I said what's the difference between Maxey, Harris and AG or MPJ?
Maxey fwiw has been thus far, better than Harden was last season. he's averging (before tonight's game) - 25.5/7,3 on 64 ts% (!) and a whoping 7.2 OBPM - that's an allstar right there and a good one at that

ofc Embiid will have his 30/11/4.5 on good efficiency but there will be another unamed played, who'll avg 28/12/9 on better efficiency and probably a better team record as well, Philly started hot but they were also the beneficiaries of a pretty soft schedule. tonight's win over the C's was probably their first really tough game except for the opener at Bucks which they lost.

[One Last Shot]

Let Embiid flop his way to another MVP when we all know that his game is gonna disappear in the playoffs lol.

Is it that hard to comprehend that he's always injured in the playoffs mainly because he need to carry so much during the regular season with the exception of some freak orbital fracture injuries? It's actually the opposite, he didn't "disappear" eventhough he should rest but instead he choose to show up and play hurt through his injuries that most of the stars will rest and recover that will end their postseason run. Embiid choose to play in the playoffs injured, that should mean something.


2023 - Knee Sprain
2022 - Orbital Fracture
2021 - Torn Meniscus
2020 - Ankle Injury
2019 - Knee Tendinitis
2018 - Orbital Fracture


Sure he's injury prone that's why he went 3rd in the draft than being a surefire top overall pick but it is what it is, hate him all you want but if Jokic didn't exist, he should be a 3-time NBA MVP now finishing 2nd in the last 3 years and finally winning the MVP trophy last year.

[One Last Shot]

8-1 and beat the Warriors without Jamal Murray.

No one is close to Jokic right now.

Embiid will have the narrative the same way Westbrook won in 2017 when KD left him in OKC. 31/11/5 in 60+ TS% with the Sixers having the best record in the NBA and Embiid winning the scoring title for 3rd straight year will get it done.

Embiid will have the narrative? how so?

last season all we heard from 76ers fans was how Harden was trash and not even an "all star" despite leading the league in assists and being being left out of the AS game because of a long injury that caused him to miss significant time

are Maxey, Harris etc (playing like they have been playing) on some different tier as player than guys like AG, Murray or MPJ? come on now...

Murray has played poorly and now isn't playing at all and is out for a while, meanwhile Jokic is making Reggie frigging Jackson to look and produce like Murray, lmfao

Harden wasn't the problem in Philly - Doc was. every NBA fan knew this all along and wrote about it a thousand times.
replacing the worst coach in the league with an actual NBA coach is a big deal, especially since a guy like Embiid really needs good coaching

as for narrative, like I said what's the difference between Maxey, Harris and AG or MPJ?
Maxey fwiw has been thus far, better than Harden was last season. he's averging (before tonight's game) - 25.5/7,3 on 64 ts% (!) - that's an allstar right there and a good one at that

ofc Embiid will have his 30/11/4.5 on good efficiency but there will be another unamed played, who'll avg 28/12/9 on better efficiency

Embiid was supposed to be used to being 2nd best by now, but last season fiasco got him all confused

What do you mean how so? KD left Russ in OKC then Westbrook won the MVP over the more deserving player Harden the next season. That's how the narrative works, bud. Embiid have edge over Jokic based on narrative, everyone expect the Nuggets to be the best team while Sixers lost a player by trade demand in a dramatic fashion who averaged 21/10.7/6.1/1.2 in 61% TS last season for the Sixers. If Philly have the best record in the NBA and Embiid won the scoring title for 3rd straight year which I think he will, then Embiid should win his 2nd straight MVP.

[scrabbarista]

I'm willing to concede Jokic in first on the condition that two through six are Dillon, Dillon, Dillon, Dillon, and Dillon.

Let's make a deal, who agrees?

[antonac]

Embiid won't win, he's just not going to win after last years play-offs. it's really not worth getting into an argument about it.

Sure he's injury prone that's why he went 3rd in the draft than being a surefire top overall pick but it is what it is, hate him all you want but if Jokic didn't exist, he should be a 3-time NBA MVP now finishing 2nd in the last 3 years and finally winning the MVP trophy last year.

This is revisionist. He didn't win in 2021 because he missed so many games people weren't comfortable awarding him the trophy (he only played 51 games of 72). Pundits were putting forward CP3 as an alternative to Jokic because there was no real case for Embiid as outright MVP. It was one of those cases where he was so good that he'd have finished to anyone but he was considered ineligible to actually win. At best he's 2 time MVP if Jokic didn't exist.

[QPR]

8-1 and beat the Warriors without Jamal Murray.

No one is close to Jokic right now.

Embiid will have the narrative the same way Westbrook won in 2017 when KD left him in OKC. 31/11/5 in 60+ TS% with the Sixers having the best record in the NBA and Embiid winning the scoring title for 3rd straight year will get it done.

I'd argue the title last season actually swings the narrative back to Jokic. He's now the undisputed best player in the league and him not winning MVP last season looks terrible in hindsight.

[FinnTheHuman]

Embiid will have the narrative the same way Westbrook won in 2017 when KD left him in OKC. 31/11/5 in 60+ TS% with the Sixers having the best record in the NBA and Embiid winning the scoring title for 3rd straight year will get it done.

Embiid will have the narrative? how so?

last season all we heard from 76ers fans was how Harden was trash and not even an "all star" despite leading the league in assists and being being left out of the AS game because of a long injury that caused him to miss significant time

are Maxey, Harris etc (playing like they have been playing) on some different tier as player than guys like AG, Murray or MPJ? come on now...

Murray has played poorly and now isn't playing at all and is out for a while, meanwhile Jokic is making Reggie frigging Jackson to look and produce like Murray, lmfao

Harden wasn't the problem in Philly - Doc was. every NBA fan knew this all along and wrote about it a thousand times.
replacing the worst coach in the league with an actual NBA coach is a big deal, especially since a guy like Embiid really needs good coaching

as for narrative, like I said what's the difference between Maxey, Harris and AG or MPJ?
Maxey fwiw has been thus far, better than Harden was last season. he's averging (before tonight's game) - 25.5/7,3 on 64 ts% (!) - that's an allstar right there and a good one at that

ofc Embiid will have his 30/11/4.5 on good efficiency but there will be another unamed played, who'll avg 28/12/9 on better efficiency

Embiid was supposed to be used to being 2nd best by now, but last season fiasco got him all confused

What do you mean how so? KD left Russ in OKC then Westbrook won the MVP over the more deserving player Harden the next season. That's how the narrative works, bud. Embiid have edge over Jokic based on narrative, everyone expect the Nuggets to be the best team while Sixers lost a player by trade demand in a dramatic fashion who averaged 21/10.7/6.1/1.2 in 61% TS last season for the Sixers. If Philly have the best record in the NBA and Embiid won the scoring title for 3rd straight year which I think he will, then Embiid should win his 2nd straight MVP.

So much copium, bro... No, it's impossible for Embiid to have the narrative this season based on all of the examples of narratives that decided the MVP in the past. For the narrative to work, there can't be any glaring counter-arguments. Mellow counter-arguments don't always kill the narrative, but the glaring ones always do.

Narrative can't survive without a compelling tale where people are just quietly nodding after you finish telling the tale.

And whenever a media member tries to tell the tale of why Embiid should get the MVP this season, he will have another media member interrupting in the end saying "BUT he shat the bed last post-season, again failing to get to his team to the conference finals, having a significant offensive and defensive drop-off. Meanwhile, Jokic led his team to the Championship."

This will also happen on social media like twitter or insta whenever Embiid's casual fans start telling the tale - a casual from the opposing group will just ridicule them and shut them down with the playoff argument.

Fans put emphasis on this, for better or worse.

I am very much against this, and I think Embiid should receive serious considerations if his stats + team record + availability are comparable to Jokic's, but I am just one guy.

A big chunk of people have to be behind a certain guy in order for him to have a chance, and this year almost nobody but Philly fans and media will be behind Embiid, while the rest will be heavily hating, hence dropping him out of the race. You won't see guys like Perk, Richard Jefferson or Nick Wright being combative in favor of Embiid, they'll find another guy to push as Jokic's main adversary.

Embiid maybe has a puncher's chance if all those 3: stats + team record + availability - are on his side, which seems almost impossible given what Jokic is doing out there.

[Exp0sed]

What do you mean how so? KD left Russ in OKC then Westbrook won the MVP over the more deserving player Harden the next season. That's how the narrative works, bud. Embiid have edge over Jokic based on narrative, everyone expect the Nuggets to be the best team while Sixers lost a player by trade demand in a dramatic fashion who averaged 21/10.7/6.1/1.2 in 61% TS last season for the Sixers. If Philly have the best record in the NBA and Embiid won the scoring title for 3rd straight year which I think he will, then Embiid should win his 2nd straight MVP.

So much copium, bro... No, it's impossible for Embiid to have the narrative this season based on all of the examples of narratives forming in the past.

Embiid maybe has a puncher's chance if all those 3: stats + team record + availability - are on his side, which seems almost impossible given what Jokic is doing out there.

100% this

I for one, am positive Embiid didn't win last season on merit but at the same time, his playoff fiasco's shouldn't affect the MVP voting.
indeed, if he'll be able to match Jokic (and other candidates) in stats, wins, availability etc he should def be considered

as it stands, like you said - with Jokic looming barring an injury or something really unforeseen - he's just not going to be good enough

realistically the Nuggets would have a similar\better record, Embiid will play less games and thus be responsible for less individual wins and Jokic will also produce more and do it more efficiently to boot, than Embiid, on a per game basis.

but that's just guesswork, in reality if Embiid delievers he should def be considered

I said the same when the same posters were writing after Jokic's first MVP, that he shouldn't get a back to back MVP because b2b are "reserved" for players who have done more in the postseason and then last year, that same argument came up in the national media not just by some specific posters here

it's precisely that argument that won Embiid an MVP last season. I didn't think there was anything to it 2 years ago or last season and that hasn't changed - the MVP is a rs award, period and rn - Embiid is def in the current race and is probably either 2nd or 3rd.

[Exp0sed]

Haliburton has entered my top 5, probably even as high as 2nd-3rd if i'm being honest

Indy is trotting out a starting 5 of Tyrese with Turner, Brown, Mathurin and Obi frigging toppin and has basically the best offense in the league thus far. Haliburton is averging almost 23 and 12 with just 2.7 To's and a might efficient 62.7 TS% all of which are pretty wild imo

132 offensive rating to 118 defensive rating for Haliburton, pretty damn impressive.
obviously Indy is just 5-3 but you can only work with what you've got, right?

he's up there, that's for sure and he's just 23 - I see rings in his future

[Wolfgang630]

Embiid has no narrative over Jokic. Philly lost the net negetive being Harden and Maxey is a better number 2. Joker is missing Jamal Murray and winning games as he has to carry more load AGAIN. Reggie Jackson said how damn good Jokic is and he’s making Reggie look good.

There’s also the narrative from some that Embiid shouldn’t have won it (like it or not it’s out there). This will be in the thoughts of voters of who won’t want vote for Embiid until they see him show up in the playoffs (again like it or not).

[antonac]

Haliburton has entered my top 5, probably even as high as 2nd-3rd if i'm being honest

Indy is trotting out a starting 5 of Tyrese with Turner, Brown, Mathurin and Obi frigging toppin and has basically the best offense in the league thus far. Haliburton is averging almost 23 and 12 with just 2.7 To's and a might efficient 62.7 TS% all of which are pretty wild imo

132 offensive rating to 118 defensive rating for Haliburton, pretty damn impressive.
obviously Indy is just 5-3 but you can only work with what you've got, right?

he's up there, that's for sure and he's just 23 - I see rings in his future

The MVP tracker on BBR actually has him 6 so you're not alone (and that's because Maxey is currently in spot number 3 and that definitely will not happen).

[Exp0sed]

Haliburton has entered my top 5, probably even as high as 2nd-3rd if i'm being honest

Indy is trotting out a starting 5 of Tyrese with Turner, Brown, Mathurin and Obi frigging toppin and has basically the best offense in the league thus far. Haliburton is averging almost 23 and 12 with just 2.7 To's and a might efficient 62.7 TS% all of which are pretty wild imo

132 offensive rating to 118 defensive rating for Haliburton, pretty damn impressive.
obviously Indy is just 5-3 but you can only work with what you've got, right?

he's up there, that's for sure and he's just 23 - I see rings in his future

The MVP tracker on BBR actually has him 6 so you're not alone (and that's because Maxey is currently in spot number 3 and that definitely will not happen).

incredibly enough, Maxey is averging 25/7/5 with only 1 turnover to those 7 assists (wild) and he's doing it on 48\40\90 splits (60 TS%)

Hali is at 132 ORTG \ 118 DRTG (awesome) while Maxey is at a ridicilous 132\111 - I can see why they have him at #3 lmfao

[Lakers In 5]

The 3x MVP showing us all why he is the soon to be 4x MVP. Jokic is the best in the world.

[HotRocks34]

Embiid's candidacy is doomed to failure this year, particularly if Jokic stays in the hunt.

What we saw last year is that voters will look at historical precedent. This hurt Jokic because it was pointed out that no 3-time winner had ever received the third trophy without first at least making the Finals.

For Embiid, it's more problematic. He's the only MVP in league history never to have made a Conference Final. And no player in league history has ever won a 2nd MVP without at least having made a Conference Final.

Thus, his quest for an MVP this season is likely over before it begins.

Last year was very embarrassing for the MVP voters and NBA media. They are unlikely to want to further reward an unproven postseason entity like Embiid until he shows he can get it done when it matters, as Jokic has proven he is capable of.

[CobraCommander]

Jokic is still the MVP but missing 2 free throws at the end of a tight game against a threat in the west has been recorded

And he had a key turnover during the final minute of that game. No chance he wins MVP now. It was a nice run.

MVP

Naw he is still best player on earth-

But every game they are writing narratives.

If not, then just give him mvp now and let’s not play the rest of the games

[Woodsanity]

8-1 and beat the Warriors without Jamal Murray.

No one is close to Jokic right now.

Embiid will have the narrative the same way Westbrook won in 2017 when KD left him in OKC. 31/11/5 in 60+ TS% with the Sixers having the best record in the NBA and Embiid winning the scoring title for 3rd straight year will get it done.

According to Embiid fans, you are not allowed to win multiple MVPs without playoff success so he is disqualified.

[GiannisAnte34]

Let Embiid flop his way to another MVP when we all know that his game is gonna disappear in the playoffs lol.

Can you tell me one playoff run where he wasn't injured?

The one where he was healthy he averaged 30 against the Celtics, got swept, but he showed up.

Embiid shat the bed game 6 and 7, but people need to realize he has been injured for the majority of his playoff runs. The key will be health, if after health he can't get it done, he goes into the annals of NBA history as a great star who couldn't cut it in the playoffs. Still has a few seasons to change the narrative.

Part of being MVP is playing enough games....

That also goes for being fit enough to play to your potential

[CobraCommander]

I'm willing to concede Jokic in first on the condition that two through six are Dillon, Dillon, Dillon, Dillon, and Dillon.

Let's make a deal, who agrees?

You think you sneaky...

We all know his whole name is Nikola Dillon Jokic....so jokic is 1-6 cause he spits hot fiya

[scrabbarista]

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I'm new to basketball. Are points, rebounds, and assists important?

[CobraCommander]

Read on Twitter

I'm new to basketball. Are points, rebounds, and assists important?