Woj: Raptors trade Pascal Siakam to Pacers for Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis and 3 first round picks

[JujitsuFlip]

I got to one work dinner and a big trade goes down lol

I like it for the Pacers if Siakam re-signs.

Raptors gonna have three firsts in 2024 which is allegedly a weak draft so idk how i feel about that, also have the Pistons 2nd rounder. Oh well, will have youth for a rebuild.

[Iwasawitness]

you gave up 3 1st rd picks which are the most valuable assets in today's league.

You traded them for a borderline all-star talent. Sure you guys improved, but I still think Mil/Bos/Philly/NY are all better.

Also Siakam is a win now player in the middle of his prime. Hali needs a younger running mate.

Pacers are 4-0 against the Bucks this year. At this point, we have every reason to believe the Pacers are the better team.

Philly? That’s very much up for debate. They’ve had bitter playoff defeats against much worse teams.

How the **** are the Knicks better? Yes they picked up OG which is great, that’s really really great. But they lost two valuable players to get him and while it looks like Robinson could come back, he won’t be nearly as dominant coming back from injury and he’ll be on reduced minutes.

Boston is the only team I feel comfortable saying are better.

Good for you.

Prove it in the playoffs. Nobody cares about regular season. The Bucks blew out the Celtics do you think that makes the Bucks better?

Teams like Boston/Milwaukee have already proven themselves in the playoffs. I'm not putting a unproven Pacers team over them. Sorry if you don't agree.

What the hell have the Bucks proven in the playoffs? This is a different team from what they had last year which got bounced in the first round by the eighth seed. What did the Knicks prove in the playoffs? They won one series and it was against a young Cavaliers team that they matched up favorably against. Philly hasn't proven a single thing at all in the playoffs. Sure they've won a series here and there but they've never managed to make it past the second round.

Again, Boston is the only team that I think is better, and I'm not factoring in playoffs because right now, that doesn't matter.

This "prove it in the playoffs" narrative is a bunch of nonsense. We can look at teams as they are and come to logical conclusions based on how they matchup. Pointing straight to playoffs is just lazy and in this case, not even the correct stance to take.

[bebopdeluxe]

I think the Raptors did pretty well here - for a guy who was going to walk this summer.

What is the deal with Nwora? I thought he was nice in the games he played against the Sixers last season. Over 13 ppg and better than 42% from 3.

Is he hurt this season? Do the Raptors not have his Bird rights?

[JustBuzzin]

Pacers are 4-0 against the Bucks this year. At this point, we have every reason to believe the Pacers are the better team.

Philly? That’s very much up for debate. They’ve had bitter playoff defeats against much worse teams.

How the **** are the Knicks better? Yes they picked up OG which is great, that’s really really great. But they lost two valuable players to get him and while it looks like Robinson could come back, he won’t be nearly as dominant coming back from injury and he’ll be on reduced minutes.

Boston is the only team I feel comfortable saying are better.

Good for you.

Prove it in the playoffs. Nobody cares about regular season. The Bucks blew out the Celtics do you think that makes the Bucks better?

Teams like Boston/Milwaukee have already proven themselves in the playoffs. I'm not putting a unproven Pacers team over them. Sorry if you don't agree.

What the hell have the Bucks proven in the playoffs? This is a different team from what they had last year which got bounced in the first round by the eighth seed. What did the Knicks prove in the playoffs? They won one series and it was against a young Cavaliers team that they matched up favorably against. Philly hasn't proven a single thing at all in the playoffs. Sure they've won a series here and there but they've never managed to make it past the second round.

Again, Boston is the only team that I think is better, and I'm not factoring in playoffs because right now, that doesn't matter.

This "prove it in the playoffs" narrative is a bunch of nonsense. We can look at teams as they are and come to logical conclusions based on how they matchup. Pointing straight to playoffs is just lazy and in this case, not even the correct stance to take.

Bucks won a championship with Giannis/Middleton/Lopez just a few years ago. They are proven with their core.

[dkb964]

Touche, i'd go into an argument about All-NBA not accurately representing the best 15 guys but its really not worth it. There's a reason why he made those teams and it had more to with injuries/games played but i'll admit I was wrong with that statement.

His slide defensively has more do with everything he has had to take offensively and him mailing it in before getting traded imo. He didn't just forget how to play it, its more of a effort thing.

When you make 2nd Team All-NBA you are seen as a top tier player. Name me one player that made 2nd team All-NBA in the last 10 years who was not considered a stud?

Julius Randle

I thought I might get bite in the butt there, but thought he made 3rd team. I consider Brown a stud though. He always destoys the Raptors, so I may overvalue him. Siakam was on top 10 list from Bill Simmons back then. Si had him top 10. He had one season at least where he was seen as a top 10 player by media at least.

[Iwasawitness]

Good for you.

Prove it in the playoffs. Nobody cares about regular season. The Bucks blew out the Celtics do you think that makes the Bucks better?

Teams like Boston/Milwaukee have already proven themselves in the playoffs. I'm not putting a unproven Pacers team over them. Sorry if you don't agree.

What the hell have the Bucks proven in the playoffs? This is a different team from what they had last year which got bounced in the first round by the eighth seed. What did the Knicks prove in the playoffs? They won one series and it was against a young Cavaliers team that they matched up favorably against. Philly hasn't proven a single thing at all in the playoffs. Sure they've won a series here and there but they've never managed to make it past the second round.

Again, Boston is the only team that I think is better, and I'm not factoring in playoffs because right now, that doesn't matter.

This "prove it in the playoffs" narrative is a bunch of nonsense. We can look at teams as they are and come to logical conclusions based on how they matchup. Pointing straight to playoffs is just lazy and in this case, not even the correct stance to take.

Bucks won a championship with Giannis/Middleton/Lopez just a few years ago. They are proven with their core.

That "core" included PJ Tucker and Jrue Holiday, and a much, much better version of Khris Middleton. This is not anywhere close to that Bucks team, which was elite on both ends of the floor and had different coaching.

In other words, this current Bucks team hasn't proven they can win anything in the playoffs. They are just as unproven as the Pacers are.

[Capn'O]

I don't think the Pacers are done. They didn't include Walker and don't have a role for him.

I don't know whether we're done or not but I did want to comment on the last part. We do have a role for Walker. His role is to develop in the G-League. I may not agree with it and I definitely wanted us to give him more playing time but there is also no reason to trade him. He will provide internal development and we're definitely going to need that if we max out Siakam.

Understood. But you seem to be ramping up now.

[Iwasawitness]

He was All-NBA TWICE! How could he have not been considered a top 10-15 when he was regonized as such? He has fallen off and Raptors fans seem to not remember that defense matters and he used to be really good at that. He is a one-way player now and has been the last 2 and a half years.

Touche, i'd go into an argument about All-NBA not accurately representing the best 15 guys but its really not worth it. There's a reason why he made those teams and it had more to with injuries/games played but i'll admit I was wrong with that statement.

His slide defensively has more do with everything he has had to take offensively and him mailing it in before getting traded imo. He didn't just forget how to play it, its more of a effort thing.

When you make 2nd Team All-NBA you are seen as a top tier player. Name me one player that made 2nd team All-NBA in the last 10 years who was not considered a stud?

DeAndre Jordan?

[WestbrookGOATed]

Pacers won this trade quite easily. Surprised they didn't have to give up 20 1sts and Haliburton for the GOAT.

[srhcan]

Yikes. Imagine paying a 34-35 year old Siakam 60M a year. It is not like his game will age well or anything.

34’s not that old these days and the cap should climb up too, at no point should his contract be more than like the 12th biggest in the league.

But yeah the point here is that you take a chance on a bad year or two to add meaningful talent now. For a team that will struggle to attract talent feels like the $ risk is pretty reasonable here.

Siakam is nowhere near as good as he was 3 or 4 years ago. People forget but he was a seen easily as a top 10-15 player then. He is not that guy anymore and I think he will continue to decline. His game is not suited to age well in my opinion. He has never been a good shooter from range and now he basically scores mostly on drives into the paint. How is he going to do that when he loses a step ot two? He has regressed massively on defense. All the talking heads are saying he will slow down Giannis. It is laughable. I wish him the best but not sad to see him go at this point of his career.

bolded part is not true. Siakam is currently having his 2nd best season ever shooting wise 52.2%. His rebounding numbers 6.3 are bit down but thats understandable as he has to share with Scottie Barnes. I think his rebounding numbers will go up again with Pacers 7+. His assists are around 5, pretty good.

[Nuntius]

I don't think the Pacers are done. They didn't include Walker and don't have a role for him.

I don't know whether we're done or not but I did want to comment on the last part. We do have a role for Walker. His role is to develop in the G-League. I may not agree with it and I definitely wanted us to give him more playing time but there is also no reason to trade him. He will provide internal development and we're definitely going to need that if we max out Siakam.

Understood. But you seem to be ramping up now.

We do seem to be ramping up, I agree. But chances are that we'll lose one of Toppin/Smith in FA this summer. Walker is right there to replace them and be part of the rotation. And if he keeps improving, maybe he can even make the starting lineup and be a valuable player on a cheap deal right when we've started getting close to the cap. And there is always value in that.

[QPR]

Touche, i'd go into an argument about All-NBA not accurately representing the best 15 guys but its really not worth it. There's a reason why he made those teams and it had more to with injuries/games played but i'll admit I was wrong with that statement.

His slide defensively has more do with everything he has had to take offensively and him mailing it in before getting traded imo. He didn't just forget how to play it, its more of a effort thing.

When you make 2nd Team All-NBA you are seen as a top tier player. Name me one player that made 2nd team All-NBA in the last 10 years who was not considered a stud?

Jaylen Brown last season. Nobody would make a credible argument that he is a top 15 let alone top 10 player this year.

Randle has made a couple as well.

Up until this year All-NBA teams didn't recognise the best 15 guys in the league, they recognised the best six (or three) by position.

[QingJames]

Soulless trade for my soulless craptors. A hollow, corporate husk of a culture followed by millions of the most rabid fairweather fans you will ever meet. Masai has led us to the promised land and now into the valley of darkness.

[dkb964]

When you make 2nd Team All-NBA you are seen as a top tier player. Name me one player that made 2nd team All-NBA in the last 10 years who was not considered a stud?

Jaylen Brown last season. Nobody would make a credible argument that he is a top 15 let alone top 10 player this year.

Randle has made a couple as well.

Up until this year All-NBA teams didn't recognise the best 15 guys in the league, they recognised the best six (or three) by position.

None of you all follow the Raptors enough to even remmeber that Siakam was considered a top 10 player. He really was one year. Might have been a pandemic year after Kawhi left. He was in his athletic prime. I understand he is not basketball old. He was different though 3 or 4 years ago.

[jowglenn]

I'm really happy for small market teams like OKC and Indiana bringing excitement to their fans and NBA in general. Good times!

The ratings will not like small market teams lacking a true superstar.

Haliburton is a true superstar. He’s leading all guards in the East in All-Star voting by a mile.

[Wargreymon]

Yeah pacers won this trade but im happy we didnt lose him for nothing like fred vanvleet. Too bad this draft is supposedly weak but who knows maybe we find a rare diamond

[phanman]

Jaylen Brown last season. Nobody would make a credible argument that he is a top 15 let alone top 10 player this year.

Randle has made a couple as well.

Up until this year All-NBA teams didn't recognise the best 15 guys in the league, they recognised the best six (or three) by position.

None of you all follow the Raptors enough to even remmeber that Siakam was considered a top 10 player. He really was one year. Might have been a pandemic year so nobone remembers.

Just stop. He may have appeared on some lists but he was never universally considered a top 10 player. Give me the year that you think he was a top 10 guy and I will list 10 better.

[dkb964]

Randle has made a couple as well.

Up until this year All-NBA teams didn't recognise the best 15 guys in the league, they recognised the best six (or three) by position.

None of you all follow the Raptors enough to even remmeber that Siakam was considered a top 10 player. He really was one year. Might have been a pandemic year so nobone remembers.

Just stop. He may have appeared on some lists but he was never universally considered a top 10 player. Give me the year that you think he was a top 10 guy and I will list 10 better.

The year he made 2nd team All-NBA. I believe it was the year after Kawhi left.

[phanman]

None of you all follow the Raptors enough to even remmeber that Siakam was considered a top 10 player. He really was one year. Might have been a pandemic year so nobone remembers.

Just stop. He may have appeared on some lists but he was never universally considered a top 10 player. Give me the year that you think he was a top 10 guy and I will list 10 better.

The year he made 2nd team All-NBA. I believe it was the year after Kawhi left.

The entire 1st team: Harden - Doncic - LeBron - Giannis - AD
Kawhi, Jokic, Dame, Tatum, Emiid

[SelfishPlayer]

I'm really happy for small market teams like OKC and Indiana bringing excitement to their fans and NBA in general. Good times!

The ratings will not like small market teams lacking a true superstar.

Thankfully, both Indiana and OKC do have a true superstar

I guess to true fans they could be, but they both aren't exciting to casuals.