Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[Jabroni Lames]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

Oliver Miller. Lmao. /end thread

[tsherkin]

Top 10 all time is an insanely hard bar to reach. You basically have to be near Magic Johnson in career value to break into the top 10. LeBron might be the only active player who will end up clearing that bar! Top 20 is a more realistic bar for players we are excited about and is effectively the new top 10 given how old the NBA is now

Top 10 is a very hard bar to reach, for sure. The best of the best, but also with appropriate luck on their side. It takes a ton to get there.

Jokic has one title, but will need more to be accepted into the top 10, even if his production is certainly on the level. He has joined Kareem, Wilt, Lebron, Magic, Jordan, Bird, Moses Malone and Bill Russell in the 3+ MVP category, though.

[Infinite Llamas]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

The 90s encapsule an entire decade, not just one year. And a lot of the PF’s in the 90s would be playing Center today which would deepen that pool

And for every Dale Davis/Karl Malone/Rodman you had Danny Ferry/Laettner/Juwan Howard at PF slots.

I picked a random year because it encapsulates most of the 90’s guys and by the time you have Duncan and KG emerging, guys like Ewing/Dream/Admiral/Smits are declining. So yea, there were a lot of great 90’s centers but not all were great at the same moment in time.

[greekman]

irving is overrated, murray is underrated. only diff between doncic and jokic

[DimesandKnicks]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

The 90s encapsule an entire decade, not just one year. And a lot of the PF’s in the 90s would be playing Center today which would deepen that pool

And for every Dale Davis/Karl Malone/Rodman you had Danny Ferry/Laettner/Juwan Howard at PF slots.

I picked a random year because it encapsulates most of the 90’s guys and by the time you have Duncan and KG emerging, guys like Ewing/Dream/Admiral/Smits are declining. So yea, there were a lot of great 90’s centers but not all were great at the same moment in time.

Now pick a year in the 2020’s

[tsherkin]

irving is overrated, murray is underrated. only diff between doncic and jokic

That is very definitely not the case.

[dhsilv2]

Then and only then will they give him his due -

But Edward knows what Lebron knows what curry knows what Embiid knows - this is the best guy on earth - and is going to be in the top 15 guaranteed and he is the only one truely trending that way in the nba under 30 -

Giannis on cusp but we need more… sorry

Giannis is a top 10 all time talent...but dude's gotta stay healthy! That said Luka is certainly trending that way, but he's got a lot of years left before 30.

Luka not trending top 10 all time- Luka is tending more like harden - He begging for FOuls and coming in out of shape -

The top 10- top 20 guys win rings and MVPs and make winning happen. -

Jokic is the only one younger than 30 really trending top 10- Luka 25… he has a great team- he has to be better - Luka clearly behind SGA right now and SGA ain’t top 10 or 20 right now

For starters, Luka is younger than harden when he started getting MVP talk by a LOT. He's also not showing issues adapting to the playoffs unlike Harden. in his age 24 year he's already got 38 playoff games and has been his team's best player for everyone of them. They have similarities in style for sure, but they're very different players.

[dhsilv2]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

Wanted to do post something very similar. Thanks for this. This 90's center talk sometimes just gets wild. For as many greats as we had, we had so many turds.

[dhsilv2]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

The 90s encapsule an entire decade, not just one year. And a lot of the PF’s in the 90s would be playing Center today which would deepen that pool

Which also means a lot of C/PF's playing back then...like half of them. Wouldn't make the league today...

[Black Jack]

Jokic is clearly the best in the world, probably until he declines and Wemby hits his prime.

[DimesandKnicks]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

The 90s encapsule an entire decade, not just one year. And a lot of the PF’s in the 90s would be playing Center today which would deepen that pool

Which also means a lot of C/PF's playing back then...like half of them. Wouldn't make the league today...

Very true, the ones at the bottom tier of this list. All in all their are probably 30 bigs that played in the 90s that would be high level C’s in the 2020s

[Letsgokings]

He's a big dumb ugly oaf but seems to be good at basketball somehow.

[dhsilv2]

The 90s encapsule an entire decade, not just one year. And a lot of the PF’s in the 90s would be playing Center today which would deepen that pool

Which also means a lot of C/PF's playing back then...like half of them. Wouldn't make the league today...

Very true, the ones at the bottom tier of this list. All in all their are probably 30 bigs that played in the 90s that would be high level C’s in the 2020s

Which means about 10 would be high level in any given season. And that...that isn't insane.

[CobraCommander]

Giannis is a top 10 all time talent...but dude's gotta stay healthy! That said Luka is certainly trending that way, but he's got a lot of years left before 30.

Luka not trending top 10 all time- Luka is tending more like harden - He begging for FOuls and coming in out of shape -

The top 10- top 20 guys win rings and MVPs and make winning happen. -

Jokic is the only one younger than 30 really trending top 10- Luka 25… he has a great team- he has to be better - Luka clearly behind SGA right now and SGA ain’t top 10 or 20 right now

For starters, Luka is younger than harden when he started getting MVP talk by a LOT. He's also not showing issues adapting to the playoffs unlike Harden. in his age 24 year he's already got 38 playoff games and has been his team's best player for everyone of them. They have similarities in style for sure, but they're very different players.

Different but the same in regards that when they don’t have the ball they are a net negative on offense. Off the ball they don’t contribute. Either way - 5 or 6 years in we need to see conditioning and improvement off the ball. No more talking about he needs help. His team is infinitely better than SGAs and he didn’t come through like harden - he is your but he is definitely not improving like jokic did -

Actually no one has in my memory-

Went from where he was to who jokic is now -

[CobraCommander]

He's a big dumb ugly oaf but seems to be good at basketball somehow.

Maybe not so dumb and a lot better than Good -

I cant judge his physical beauty but damn his game is gorgeous

[Kawaii Leonard]

He’s not a system player. He is the system. What are y’all yapping about. Jesus. Even Curry as the most system player of all time deserves all his mvps and flowers. It’s really not a negative if it works.

[tsherkin]

He’s not a system player. He is the system. What are y’all yapping about. Jesus. Even Curry as the most system player of all time deserves all his mvps and flowers. It’s really not a negative if it works.

Steph isn't a system player either. He enables others to work off of him. He IS the system. And he was a 24 ppg, 8.5 apg player before Kerr ever got there.

"System player" rarely describes focal players. It's usually a daft phrase designed to undercut the value of a given player for no good reason. Every focal player on a well-coached team has the offense built around them to maximize their skillset and impact, that's... literally the point of coaching. But "system player" describes guys who can only operate inside the system. Roleplayers who go someplace after not being that good, and thriving inside of a simpler, and more well-defined role.

[WentzerWuver]

Braun is more like AR on the Lakers but in big games to break a tie series, he delivers while getting his big guy involved like LeBron does for AD!

I never gave up on the Nuggets and bet big in game 3 when most everyone was scared Lol

[DimesandKnicks]

Which also means a lot of C/PF's playing back then...like half of them. Wouldn't make the league today...

Very true, the ones at the bottom tier of this list. All in all their are probably 30 bigs that played in the 90s that would be high level C’s in the 2020s

Which means about 10 would be high level in any given season. And that...that isn't insane.

There are at least a dozen on the list above that are high level. You add PF’s that could play C and you’d easily have 20; more then half of which are all-stars/all nba/all nba D at worst and HOF at best

[Kawaii Leonard]

He’s not a system player. He is the system. What are y’all yapping about. Jesus. Even Curry as the most system player of all time deserves all his mvps and flowers. It’s really not a negative if it works.

Steph isn't a system player either. He enables others to work off of him. He IS the system. And he was a 24 ppg, 8.5 apg player before Kerr ever got there.

"System player" rarely describes focal players. It's usually a daft phrase designed to undercut the value of a given player for no good reason. Every focal player on a well-coached team has the offense built around them to maximize their skillset and impact, that's... literally the point of coaching. But "system player" describes guys who can only operate inside the system. Roleplayers who go someplace after not being that good, and thriving inside of a simpler, and more well-defined role.

His gravitational pull as people call it certainly creates undocumented offence but that is not a system. Even for that to exist, Kerr had to step in to cater to his strengths (goat shooter/offball movement). A system influenced by the 7sol suns and next man open Popovich’s spurs. Curry is most obviously a system player, perhaps the best to benefit what was set for him. The moving Draymond screens cemented it even further.

Obviously Curry isn’t the run of the mill system role player but he is the most outlier when it comes to what he does best. He’s very hard to rank and put labels on because of how unique his impact is but I never once considered him to be a system by his lonesome self. I mean is he even a pg?