2025 WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS: #1 Oklahoma City Thunder vs #6 Minnesota Timberwolves (OKC leads 2-1)

[Dadouv47]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

[MoneyTalks41890]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

It’s not worth engaging the morning after crowd it’s generally not coming from an honest place.

Not much to learn from that one.

Game 4 tomorrow.

[Dadouv47]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

It’s not worth engaging the morning after crowd it’s generally not coming from an honest place.

Not much to learn from that one.

Game 4 tomorrow.

I hope our team will learn from that one because we had some terrible performances on the road but yeah u are right

[Slim Tubby]

Terrance Shannon Jr outscoring FTA was not on my Bingo card.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[KayDee35]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

Never attribute to conspiracy what can be more easily explained with laziness and incompetence.

Foul baiters are notoriously hard to officiate. Physical defense is also tough to officiate. These are arguably the two biggest elements to OKC's playoff success as they set the tone for what you are and are not allowed to get away with. It's a smart gamble, especially when the refs reward the former with a whistle and the latter with a non-whistle.

When your league MVP is being labeled a "foul-merchant" in the mainstream media and that's getting blasted all over social media, you react to protect the perceived quality of your product. Suddenly, you're not so lazy and you work harder to get more calls correct. Nevertheless, Shai still got another phantom call last night (which others have not been getting in the postseason) not because of conspiracy but because he's just that challenging to ref.

Harden was also extremely challenging to officiate. The refs eventually swallowed their whistles in the playoffs probably to protect the (perceived) integrity of the game (Harden's foul-drawing antics were receiving a lot of negative attention) and to improve the quality of the product (fans don't like to watch FT parades).

The Thunder just suffered their worst loss of the season. And it correlated with the refs not rewarding Shai's flopping only once the entire game (he shot 4 FTs compared to 29 FTs over the first 2 games) and calling OKC for reaching and grabbing (cue Caruso's expression of disbelief on an obvious foul because he's was allowed to get away with it all playoffs).

Good reffing is extremely taxing, especially against a team like OKC that straddles the line very often. External pressure from all the negative press prevented the refs from being lazy this last game.

[KayDee35]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

Never attribute to conspiracy what can be more easily explained with laziness and incompetence.

Foul baiters are notoriously hard to officiate. Physical defense is also tough to officiate. These are arguably the two biggest elements to OKC's playoff success as they set the tone for what you are and are not allowed to get away with. It's a smart gamble, especially when the refs reward the former with a whistle and the latter with a non-whistle.

When your league MVP is being labeled a "foul-merchant" in the mainstream media and that's getting blasted all over social media, you react to protect the perceived quality of your product. Suddenly, you're not so lazy and you work harder to get more calls correct. Nevertheless, Shai still got another phantom call last night (which others have not been getting in the postseason) not because of conspiracy but because he's just that challenging to ref.

Harden was also extremely challenging to officiate. The refs eventually swallowed their whistles in the playoffs probably to protect the (perceived) integrity of the game (Harden's foul-drawing antics were receiving a lot of negative attention) and to improve the quality of the product (fans don't like to watch FT parades).

The Thunder just suffered their worst loss of the season. And it correlated with the refs rewarding Shai's flopping only once the entire game (he shot 4 FTs compared to 29 FTs over the first 2 games) and calling OKC for reaching and grabbing (cue Caruso's expression of disbelief on an obvious foul because he's was allowed to get away with it all playoffs).

Good reffing is extremely taxing, especially against a team like OKC that straddles the line very often. External pressure from all the negative press prevented the refs from being lazy this last game.

Once the pressure dies out, the refs will return to their old ways.

[MrPainfulTruth]

I never understood the hate towards him back then. The team was unique in terms of talent with Russ, KD, Adams, Harden and even some good wings. The reason they failed to convert in to titles imo was simply the coach being incapable to put a leash on Russ, who was in full ego mode back then and put his status and numbers above the teams' success. He looked off KD the best scorer in the league by a mile on last plays over and over. What is KD supposed to to? We dont know what happened behind closed doors an what discussions where lead but i felt he even stayed too long, giving them his prime when they leaned towards Russ instead.

Fans can be very stubborn and dumb at times, expecting these guys to never ever move from a situation that is really bad for them. There is absolutely ZERO reason to be mad with KD because he left. Where he went to, thats a different story but that should not influence the way they see him in terms of giving his best for OKC.

With the benefit of hindsight it's abundantly clear that Westbrook was the least impactful of OKC's original big-3 when it came to winning. He's extremely entertaining but his game is not suited to winning at a high level, especially in the playoffs. OKC allowing Russ to be "alpha" (aka bold but stupid) with the ball cost them multiple rings and led to KD's departure.

OKC's mismanagement deserves all the blame here. Bad management leads to drama and losing good players. The drama draws our attention away from the true cause of the poopshow but OKC needed to get a veteran coach with a spine who could corral Russ and they failed to do that.

You can call it hindsight or believe me that i found it pretty obvious back then in real time, too. And thats not because i am some kind of basketball genius but because it was kinda...obvious. Westbrook never had the basketball talent that KD had, all he had was crazy athleticism and fearlessness and crazy motor. Its kind of what we see when Murray goes on one of his patented 1 on 5 iso hero plays while having the best player in the world waiting patiently to get the ball with 2 sec left on the clock. To everyone who frequently watches the game its frustrating and disappointing beyond limits and its mostly on coach and GM for not putting an end to this after several seasons.

I wasnt mad with KD for leaving (but for copying/one upping LeBron and joining a super team) and i wont be mad with Joker as long as he doesnt join multiple superstars.

[MrPainfulTruth]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

Well maybe, or maybe you are a fan with an obvious tainted view on your own team?

We saw in slow motion what Caruso was getting away with in the last series while being praised by announcers and crowd as a "great defender and Jokic stopper". He simply was blatantly hacking Jokic and got called for maybe, MAYBE one in five fouls. Meanwhile SGA got free throws for barely any contact. You arent doing yourself a favor if you pretend not to see what the rest of the basketball world is seeing.

[Dadouv47]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

Never attribute to conspiracy what can be more easily explained with laziness and incompetence.

Foul baiters are notoriously hard to officiate. Physical defense is also tough to officiate. These are arguably the two biggest elements to OKC's playoff success as they set the tone for what you are and are not allowed to get away with. It's a smart gamble, especially when the refs reward the former with a whistle and the latter with a non-whistle.

When your league MVP is being labeled a "foul-merchant" in the mainstream media and that's getting blasted all over social media, you react to protect the perceived quality of your product. Suddenly, you're not so lazy and you work harder to get more calls correct. Nevertheless, Shai still got another phantom call last night (which others have not been getting in the postseason) not because of conspiracy but because he's just that challenging to ref.

Harden was also extremely challenging to officiate. The refs eventually swallowed their whistles in the playoffs probably to protect the (perceived) integrity of the game (Harden's foul-drawing antics were receiving a lot of negative attention) and to improve the quality of the product (fans don't like to watch FT parades).

The Thunder just suffered their worst loss of the season. And it correlated with the refs not rewarding Shai's flopping only once the entire game (he shot 4 FTs compared to 29 FTs over the first 2 games) and calling OKC for reaching and grabbing (cue Caruso's expression of disbelief on an obvious foul because he's was allowed to get away with it all playoffs).

Good reffing is extremely taxing, especially against a team like OKC that straddles the line very often. External pressure from all the negative press prevented the refs from being lazy this last game.

Michael Jordan was going to the line a lot more in the POs than Shai during his peak. I don't care about mainstream media narratives and hate coming from other fanbases. Do I think Shai is the most entertaining player to watch? Nope but he's one of the players driving the most in the NBA and players are making a ton of fouls of him. He's not even in the top 5 of MVPs going the most at the line in those last 10 years...it's a stupid narrative because he's a guard and not a giant like Jokic or Giannis. Great players get a lot of calls mostly because it's difficult to defend against us (and they also get some favorable whistles sometimes)

[Hoop Hunter]

Congrats Wolves fans. Did not see a 42 point blowout coming.

[HMFFL]

T Wolves finally put in work inside the paint.

Points in the paint:
T Wolves 56
OKC 42

Fast Break Points:
T Wolves 6
OKC 12

T Wolves fast break points in game one 11, game two ZERO points, game three 6 points.

Fast break points must improve but it doesn't appear to be Coach Nurses game plan.

[KayDee35]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

Never attribute to conspiracy what can be more easily explained with laziness and incompetence.

Foul baiters are notoriously hard to officiate. Physical defense is also tough to officiate. These are arguably the two biggest elements to OKC's playoff success as they set the tone for what you are and are not allowed to get away with. It's a smart gamble, especially when the refs reward the former with a whistle and the latter with a non-whistle.

When your league MVP is being labeled a "foul-merchant" in the mainstream media and that's getting blasted all over social media, you react to protect the perceived quality of your product. Suddenly, you're not so lazy and you work harder to get more calls correct. Nevertheless, Shai still got another phantom call last night (which others have not been getting in the postseason) not because of conspiracy but because he's just that challenging to ref.

Harden was also extremely challenging to officiate. The refs eventually swallowed their whistles in the playoffs probably to protect the (perceived) integrity of the game (Harden's foul-drawing antics were receiving a lot of negative attention) and to improve the quality of the product (fans don't like to watch FT parades).

The Thunder just suffered their worst loss of the season. And it correlated with the refs not rewarding Shai's flopping only once the entire game (he shot 4 FTs compared to 29 FTs over the first 2 games) and calling OKC for reaching and grabbing (cue Caruso's expression of disbelief on an obvious foul because he's was allowed to get away with it all playoffs).

Good reffing is extremely taxing, especially against a team like OKC that straddles the line very often. External pressure from all the negative press prevented the refs from being lazy this last game.

Michael Jordan was going to the line a lot more in the POs than Shai during his peak. I don't care about mainstream media narratives and hate coming from other fanbases. Do I think Shai is the most entertaining player to watch? Nope but he's one of the players driving the most in the NBA and players are making a ton of fouls of him. He's not even in the top 5 of MVPs going the most at the line in those last 10 years...it's a stupid narrative because he's a guard and not a giant like Jokic or Giannis. Great players get a lot of calls mostly because it's difficult to defend against us (and they also get some favorable whistles sometimes)

I don't care for teams that attempt to ruin the product. The NBA is a business.

MJ was the product and the NBA (wisely) decided to protect him and give him the benefit of the doubt more often than not. That worked out quite well, I think most of us would agree. MJ was also never labeled a flopper and for good reason.

The special whistle that SGA has been getting in the playoffs is based on embellishment and flopping. It makes for bad TV. And when the media runs numerous stories about SGA being a Free-Throw Merchant and fans chant the same, the league wants no part of it.

MJ and SGA are not the same!!!

[kodo]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

Well not Caruso specifically, he fouls like crazy. As the by far the smallest of these guys he has to be more aggressive in his defense. This was ultimately why Chicago could never win with him on D, a team can gameplan for him like Spo & Butler did in the '23 play-in. Caruso was the primary "answer" for Butler on defense and Butler destroyed him by getting the ball near the basket and it was just a FT shooting contest and Caruso fouled out in 30 min.

Also why Donovan could never consistently start him even though everyone knew he was one of our best impact players.

[Lunartic]

[cgf]

or maybe Minny just finally played insane great defense in this series (they were the second best defense in the POs before the WCFs) and some people finally think playing great physical defense is cool when it's not OKC doing it.

Game 1 they whistled up Minny for enough fouls that Rudy sat down 90 seconds into the game and OKC shot 11 free throws in the 1st quarter. Don't even pretend this a "well finally Minnesota came to play" situation. Ain't nobody that dumb.

So what's your theory - the officiating changed in Game 3? If so, why?

Home cooking is a thing and complaining about the officials has an impact on how future games are officiated. Last year Carlisle complained about the officiating after game 2 or 3 against us, and in the next game, the Pacers got a much friendlier whistle. The same thing happened in round 1 this year when Detroit complained about the officiating in game 2, the refs then swallowed their whistles in game 3...which backfired on the pistons when the refs stayed consistent on the final shot, which they also complained about, so in game 4 the officiating went back to calling obvious fouls.

[cgf]

Congrats Wolves fans. Did not see a 42 point blowout coming.

With the way they lost those first two, they needed a cathartic win like this.

[MrPainfulTruth]

maybe you can play great physical defense without fouling and that's what OKC was able to do for most part of the season and the Wolves did it yesterday...just maybe!?

That might explain why Caruso, Dort, McDaniels, Amen Thompson, Herb Jones and some others are great defenders while others are not on their level.

...or it's just rigged and until yesterday the NBA wanted OKC to win.

Never attribute to conspiracy what can be more easily explained with laziness and incompetence.

Foul baiters are notoriously hard to officiate. Physical defense is also tough to officiate. These are arguably the two biggest elements to OKC's playoff success as they set the tone for what you are and are not allowed to get away with. It's a smart gamble, especially when the refs reward the former with a whistle and the latter with a non-whistle.

When your league MVP is being labeled a "foul-merchant" in the mainstream media and that's getting blasted all over social media, you react to protect the perceived quality of your product. Suddenly, you're not so lazy and you work harder to get more calls correct. Nevertheless, Shai still got another phantom call last night (which others have not been getting in the postseason) not because of conspiracy but because he's just that challenging to ref.

Harden was also extremely challenging to officiate. The refs eventually swallowed their whistles in the playoffs probably to protect the (perceived) integrity of the game (Harden's foul-drawing antics were receiving a lot of negative attention) and to improve the quality of the product (fans don't like to watch FT parades).

The Thunder just suffered their worst loss of the season. And it correlated with the refs not rewarding Shai's flopping only once the entire game (he shot 4 FTs compared to 29 FTs over the first 2 games) and calling OKC for reaching and grabbing (cue Caruso's expression of disbelief on an obvious foul because he's was allowed to get away with it all playoffs).

Good reffing is extremely taxing, especially against a team like OKC that straddles the line very often. External pressure from all the negative press prevented the refs from being lazy this last game.

Michael Jordan was going to the line a lot more in the POs than Shai during his peak. I don't care about mainstream media narratives and hate coming from other fanbases. Do I think Shai is the most entertaining player to watch? Nope but he's one of the players driving the most in the NBA and players are making a ton of fouls of him. He's not even in the top 5 of MVPs going the most at the line in those last 10 years...it's a stupid narrative because he's a guard and not a giant like Jokic or Giannis. Great players get a lot of calls mostly because it's difficult to defend against us (and they also get some favorable whistles sometimes)

Again, this is a classical strawman, a lazy argument or maybe even dishonest. The criticism is NOT simply that SGA gets "a lot of free throws". The criticism is that they are officiated in a completely different way than each of their opponents, and SGA gets a very soft whistle while their own defenders like Dort and Caruso are allowed to hack, grab, constantly hand check. Meanwhile SGA, who himself routinely commits what others would instantly get called for as offensive fouls with all his chicken wings and pushoffs did not get called fro an offensive foul ever since i watch OKC. And since getting anywhere near him results in him jumping into the defender, he basically gets uncontested mid range shots over and over again, and looks unstoppable - until a game like yesterday happens, where both sides are allowed the same defense, and he is completely invisible.

You are arguing something noone claimed, because the actual criticism is hard to argue.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Absolutely love it. The Logo 2025.

[MrPainfulTruth]

or maybe Minny just finally played insane great defense in this series (they were the second best defense in the POs before the WCFs) and some people finally think playing great physical defense is cool when it's not OKC doing it.

Game 1 they whistled up Minny for enough fouls that Rudy sat down 90 seconds into the game and OKC shot 11 free throws in the 1st quarter. Don't even pretend this a "well finally Minnesota came to play" situation. Ain't nobody that dumb.

So what's your theory - the officiating changed in Game 3? If so, why?

I dare to quote myself from before the game:

Once again the officiating will determine the result. Will there be two sets of rules again as in almost every game in these playoffs? Or do they have to extend the series to generate more artifical excitement? Oh the suspense...

[Lunartic]

Refs have controlled this series pretty thoroughly.

SGA didn't get his tickytack, flop freethrows and Caruso/Dort got called for hacking defenders non-stop, suddenly Timberwolves are able to score and play defense.

I'm expecting Scott Foster to ref Game 4