Chris Paul Opts In; Then Traded To Houston

[RightToCensor]

It's kinda surreal to think what just happened out of the blue today.

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[mtron929]

This is going to be a trainwreck.

Harden and Paul are pretty much the worst possible combo. Both HUGE usage and both want to be the 'alpha'.

Doesn't address any of their weaknesses as Gordon and Beverley were pretty much the perfect backcourt mates for Harden.

Whilst getting a play of Paul's calibre for so little is always a good move on paper, I think they regret this when they scrape the playoffs and Paul leaves next summer, meanwhile you've also alienated Harden.

Huge risk. And I don't think it pays off.

But what is the risk? Lou Williams, Patrick Beverly, and Dekker are the main components of the trade and none of these guys are that great nor are they rising superstars. The 2018 pick will be probably in the 25-30th range so what is the risk here? The Rockets were not going to beat the Warriors anyway so why not just raise the ceiling (as well as lowering the floor) of the team by adding a top 10 player?

The risk is the alienation of Harden,the waste of a year and the opportunity cost of the other .Ives they could have made.

I guess, again, on paper, it's not a risk.

But to me this ends in a totally blown up and depleted roster next year. With or without a disgruntled Harden and I seriously don't see any way that this ends well.

Adding Melo would simply make things even worse.

Wan't it Harden that really wanted to play with CP3? I will bet that he is raving about this trade so if he hates the outcome, then it is his fault as well. Also, why is it a waste of a year when the team (as it was constituted pre CP3 trade) was not going to beat the Warriors?

[HotTubMike]

This is going to be a trainwreck.

Harden and Paul are pretty much the worst possible combo. Both HUGE usage and both want to be the 'alpha'.

Doesn't address any of their weaknesses as Gordon and Beverley were pretty much the perfect backcourt mates for Harden.

Whilst getting a play of Paul's calibre for so little is always a good move on paper, I think they regret this when they scrape the playoffs and Paul leaves next summer, meanwhile you've also alienated Harden.

Huge risk. And I don't think it pays off.

But what is the risk? Lou Williams, Patrick Beverly, and Dekker are the main components of the trade and none of these guys are that great nor are they rising superstars. The 2018 pick will be probably in the 25-30th range so what is the risk here? The Rockets were not going to beat the Warriors anyway so why not just raise the ceiling (as well as lowering the floor) of the team by adding a top 10 player?

The risk is the alienation of Harden,the waste of a year and the opportunity cost of the other .Ives they could have made.

I guess, again, on paper, it's not a risk.

But to me this ends in a totally blown up and depleted roster next year. With or without a disgruntled Harden and I seriously don't see any way that this ends well.

Adding Melo would simply make things even worse.

Waste of a year? Nope. What would have been a waste of a year would have been standing pat. Clearly 2016/17 Rockets aren't good enough... drastic changes had to be made... of course it's a risk.

Risk of an alienation of Harden? You know CP3 forced his way to Houston and that CP3/D'Antoni/Harden all discussed this before it happened right? It didn't just happen, Morey- "Hey harden we traded 8 dudes for CP3 hope you guys can figure it out"

It's a risky move sure but you have to take risks when there is a superteam like GSW around and what if doesn't work out? Oh well we still have Harden and can try and build around him next summer.

If it does work out? Harden + CP3 could recruit guys to join them up to and including Lebron. It could be massive for Houston.

[bmurph128]

Uh yes Harden can.... Rockets can clear lots of cap space next off-season then re-sign free agents they already have the rights too

So you can have Harden, CP3, Melo/pg13, Lebron.... going over the cap to resign your free agents CP3 and potentially PG13 or Melo after signing Lebron... Wade can come along too but he isn't going to command tons of money..

The path is potentially there for the Rockets.... CP3 likely didn't decide to come here to hang out for 1 year with only James Harden... good chance something much bigger is in the works.

So Harden's coming off the bench then? Lol think about it...those guys aren't going to all go player "together" only so that Wade plays minimal minutes because of Harden. And none of those guys are glue/hustle/screen setting types of players. Few of them play any significant defense.

The only real possibility of them actually playing together would be for a team where all 4 can start, and have a 5th guy who does the dirty work. If I were in your shoes maybe I'd try to tell myself something much bigger was in the works too. I think your best case is that they acquire another star and convince CP3 to stay after that (which is still a pretty good case).

The Cavs can free up the salary needed (as can a slew of other teams), and would have the added benefit of LeBron not leaving, which could damage his legacy in some people's eyes. They' have also shown that they might be willing to trade Kyrie.

I just don't see those guys wanting to play with Harden though. If Houston was going to trade him, then I could see it.

You realize in two season D-wade will be 37? You expect him to demand to start and play tons of minutes? Nonsense... he knows his role and at 37 with shot knees I doubt he demands to start.

Of course Harden isn't coming off the bench for 37 year old D-wade.

CP3 and Lebron are close it's not far fetched at all Lebron would decide to come to Houston to team up with CP3/Harden and whoever else.

While you might personally disdain Harden, he is obviously respected by CP3 and other players in the league. CP3 just forced his way to Houston to play with Harden.

Banana boat + Harden is obviously better than Banana boat without Harden.

Morey obviously has some more stuff in the works.... also, everyone around the league pretty much agrees Lebron staying in Cleveland is not a forgone conclusion... he will go to the best situation possible and we all know he wants to team up with CP3. You sound like you're trying to convince yourself Lebron will never leave you again. Nothing indicates that. He very well could.

Pretty silly to think CP3 is just coming to Houston to hang out for a year and then jet.... good chance with a core of CP3/Harden and maybe a third star the new super team starts here..... it could include Lebron.

I'm not trying to convince myself that LeBron is staying, at all.

I've been pretty consistent in saying that I believe LeBron will go wherever his best chance at beating the Warriors is.

I also think it's likely the banana boat happens - I do not, however, think it's likely that it happens in Houston. The only reason that this talk of Houston has started is because CP3 got traded there (which is ironic considering LeBron plays in Cleveland, and is the best of the bunch). So let's review:

LeBron >>>>>>>>>> CP3

LeBron also appears to be the leader of the banana boat crew, and is the one who the public remembers saying he would like to play with them

Wherever they go, it's likely that LeBron is the highest paid of the group - it makes more sense to sign everyone else and then have the bird rights to LeBron to maximize cap flexibility

LeBron has ties to Cleveland - DWade to Chicago - Melo to New York - Paul has no ties to Houston, yet the other three are all going to leave where they are tied to and play in Houston?? They have to leave and play somewhere, but it seems unlikely they would all assemble in Houston when they have ties to where they currently are

CP3 wanted LA to get something for him rather than him leaving in FA

The Cavs have discussed trades involving both Kyrie and Love

This all points to the crew coming to Cleveland. LeBron being the best and the leader is likely to ultimately decide where they play; the Cavs having the bird rights to LeBron is an advantage no other team has, unless you're banking on LeBron playing for $15 million/year; the Cavs are willing to clear the decks and assemble an entirely new team; it's beneficial to CP3 to only be under contract for one year so that he can join wherever the others join, and since he wanted to get something for LA, it makes sense that he asked orchestrated this trade, but doesn't mean he will be playing in Houston beyond one year.

I'm on record as saying if LeBron leaves, he leaves. Because we'll either beat the Warriors this year, get a whole new team the year after, or LeBron will leave. Those are the choices. I'm fine with LeBron leaving if that's what he decides is best for him. But right now I would have Cleveland as the spot for the banana boat crew.

[RightToCensor]

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[MaxRider]

It's kinda surreal to think what just happened out of the blue today.

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for a second i thought it was Steve Francis

[RightToCensor]

I kinda want to keep Ryan Anderson and see if this team could score 120 PPG.

[HotTubMike]

So Harden's coming off the bench then? Lol think about it...those guys aren't going to all go player "together" only so that Wade plays minimal minutes because of Harden. And none of those guys are glue/hustle/screen setting types of players. Few of them play any significant defense.

The only real possibility of them actually playing together would be for a team where all 4 can start, and have a 5th guy who does the dirty work. If I were in your shoes maybe I'd try to tell myself something much bigger was in the works too. I think your best case is that they acquire another star and convince CP3 to stay after that (which is still a pretty good case).

The Cavs can free up the salary needed (as can a slew of other teams), and would have the added benefit of LeBron not leaving, which could damage his legacy in some people's eyes. They' have also shown that they might be willing to trade Kyrie.

I just don't see those guys wanting to play with Harden though. If Houston was going to trade him, then I could see it.

You realize in two season D-wade will be 37? You expect him to demand to start and play tons of minutes? Nonsense... he knows his role and at 37 with shot knees I doubt he demands to start.

Of course Harden isn't coming off the bench for 37 year old D-wade.

CP3 and Lebron are close it's not far fetched at all Lebron would decide to come to Houston to team up with CP3/Harden and whoever else.

While you might personally disdain Harden, he is obviously respected by CP3 and other players in the league. CP3 just forced his way to Houston to play with Harden.

Banana boat + Harden is obviously better than Banana boat without Harden.

Morey obviously has some more stuff in the works.... also, everyone around the league pretty much agrees Lebron staying in Cleveland is not a forgone conclusion... he will go to the best situation possible and we all know he wants to team up with CP3. You sound like you're trying to convince yourself Lebron will never leave you again. Nothing indicates that. He very well could.

Pretty silly to think CP3 is just coming to Houston to hang out for a year and then jet.... good chance with a core of CP3/Harden and maybe a third star the new super team starts here..... it could include Lebron.

I'm not trying to convince myself that LeBron is staying, at all.

I've been pretty consistent in saying that I believe LeBron will go wherever his best chance at beating the Warriors is.

I also think it's likely the banana boat happens - I do not, however, think it's likely that it happens in Houston. The only reason that this talk of Houston has started is because CP3 got traded there (which is ironic considering LeBron plays in Cleveland, and is the best of the bunch). So let's review:

LeBron >>>>>>>>>> CP3

LeBron also appears to be the leader of the banana boat crew, and is the one who the public remembers saying he would like to play with them

Wherever they go, it's likely that LeBron is the highest paid of the group - it makes more sense to sign everyone else and then have the bird rights to LeBron to maximize cap flexibility

LeBron has ties to Cleveland - DWade to Chicago - Melo to New York - Paul has no ties to Houston, yet the other three are all going to leave where they are tied to and play in Houston?? They have to leave and play somewhere, but it seems unlikely they would all assemble in Houston when they have ties to where they currently are

CP3 wanted LA to get something for him rather than him leaving in FA

The Cavs have discussed trades involving both Kyrie and Love

This all points to the crew coming to Cleveland. LeBron being the best and the leader is likely to ultimately decide where they play; the Cavs having the bird rights to LeBron is an advantage no other team has, unless you're banking on LeBron playing for $15 million/year; the Cavs are willing to clear the decks and assemble an entirely new team; it's beneficial to CP3 to only be under contract for one year so that he can join wherever the others join, and since he wanted to get something for LA, it makes sense that he asked orchestrated this trade, but doesn't mean he will be playing in Houston beyond one year.

I'm on record as saying if LeBron leaves, he leaves. Because we'll either beat the Warriors this year, get a whole new team the year after, or LeBron will leave. Those are the choices. I'm fine with LeBron leaving if that's what he decides is best for him. But right now I would have Cleveland as the spot for the banana boat crew.

CP3 just FORCED his way to Houston. He WANTED to team up with Harden... This is what he wants... he could have gone anywhere in FA in a few days. He wants to be in Houston with Harden.

You seriously believe CP3 forced his way to Houston to get assets for the Clippers and then bolt after wasting a year of his prime?

A core of CP3 and Harden can recruit other guys to come to Houston now... it makes way more sense than going somewhere else and Harden ain't coming. You can dismiss Harden but guys like Lebron respect Harden and would love to play with him. Harden can't leave Houston but Lebron can leave Cleveland.

Houston has CP3's bird rights... they have Harden under contract.... they can sign Lebron and then re-sign CP3 with his bird rights and have Harden.

It's not as easy as you think to trade Kyrie and Love without taking back any salary dude... it's delusional... Cavs are in cap hell while the Rockets are in a very good position. Very unlikely any Banana boat forms there.

[Quentin]

David Stern about to step in and cancel the trade.

[bmurph128]

You realize in two season D-wade will be 37? You expect him to demand to start and play tons of minutes? Nonsense... he knows his role and at 37 with shot knees I doubt he demands to start.

Of course Harden isn't coming off the bench for 37 year old D-wade.

CP3 and Lebron are close it's not far fetched at all Lebron would decide to come to Houston to team up with CP3/Harden and whoever else.

While you might personally disdain Harden, he is obviously respected by CP3 and other players in the league. CP3 just forced his way to Houston to play with Harden.

Banana boat + Harden is obviously better than Banana boat without Harden.

Morey obviously has some more stuff in the works.... also, everyone around the league pretty much agrees Lebron staying in Cleveland is not a forgone conclusion... he will go to the best situation possible and we all know he wants to team up with CP3. You sound like you're trying to convince yourself Lebron will never leave you again. Nothing indicates that. He very well could.

Pretty silly to think CP3 is just coming to Houston to hang out for a year and then jet.... good chance with a core of CP3/Harden and maybe a third star the new super team starts here..... it could include Lebron.

I'm not trying to convince myself that LeBron is staying, at all.

I've been pretty consistent in saying that I believe LeBron will go wherever his best chance at beating the Warriors is.

I also think it's likely the banana boat happens - I do not, however, think it's likely that it happens in Houston. The only reason that this talk of Houston has started is because CP3 got traded there (which is ironic considering LeBron plays in Cleveland, and is the best of the bunch). So let's review:

LeBron >>>>>>>>>> CP3

LeBron also appears to be the leader of the banana boat crew, and is the one who the public remembers saying he would like to play with them

Wherever they go, it's likely that LeBron is the highest paid of the group - it makes more sense to sign everyone else and then have the bird rights to LeBron to maximize cap flexibility

LeBron has ties to Cleveland - DWade to Chicago - Melo to New York - Paul has no ties to Houston, yet the other three are all going to leave where they are tied to and play in Houston?? They have to leave and play somewhere, but it seems unlikely they would all assemble in Houston when they have ties to where they currently are

CP3 wanted LA to get something for him rather than him leaving in FA

The Cavs have discussed trades involving both Kyrie and Love

This all points to the crew coming to Cleveland. LeBron being the best and the leader is likely to ultimately decide where they play; the Cavs having the bird rights to LeBron is an advantage no other team has, unless you're banking on LeBron playing for $15 million/year; the Cavs are willing to clear the decks and assemble an entirely new team; it's beneficial to CP3 to only be under contract for one year so that he can join wherever the others join, and since he wanted to get something for LA, it makes sense that he asked orchestrated this trade, but doesn't mean he will be playing in Houston beyond one year.

I'm on record as saying if LeBron leaves, he leaves. Because we'll either beat the Warriors this year, get a whole new team the year after, or LeBron will leave. Those are the choices. I'm fine with LeBron leaving if that's what he decides is best for him. But right now I would have Cleveland as the spot for the banana boat crew.

CP3 just FORCED his way to Houston. He WANTED to team up with Harden... This is what he wants... he could have gone anywhere in FA in a few days. He wants to be in Houston with Harden.

You seriously believe CP3 forced his way to Houston to get assets for the Clippers and then bolt after wasting a year of his prime?

A core of CP3 and Harden can recruit other guys to come to Houston now... it makes way more sense than going somewhere else and Harden ain't coming. You can dismiss Harden but guys like Lebron respect Harden and would love to play with him. Harden can't leave Houston but Lebron can leave Cleveland.

Houston has CP3's bird rights... they have Harden under contract.... they can sign Lebron and then re-sign CP3 with his bird rights and have Harden.

It's not as easy as you think to trade Kyrie and Love without taking back any salary dude... it's delusional... Cavs are in cap hell while the Rockets are in a very good position. Very unlikely any Banana boat forms there.

Lol we'll have to agree to disagree. It's a safer bet that the team with the best player in the NBA keeps him than it is that he leaves for a team that he has zero ties to.

I think if the banana boat crew wants to get together, they all need to "waste a year of their prime". That's an irrelevant comment. The reality is they can't all get together this year, so...yes, he needs to play somewhere.

LeBron/Kyrie are a much better "core" than CP3 and Harden - their salaries would even be the same. If the Cavs can clear up space aside from those two, then that's what will probably happen. With a comment like "Harden can't leave Houston but LeBron can leave Cleveland" it seems like you place Harden somewhere in the same realm as LeBron in terms of value - he's nowhere close.

The Rockets and Cavs are in similar cap situations aside from Kevin Love, who should be traded this offseason.

[BallerTalk]

Combined, this is what the Rockets traded to get CP3 and James Harden:

Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, Sam Dekker, Patrick Beverley, Corey Brewer, picks (that became Steven Adams, Alex Abrines, Mitch McGary and Tony Bradley), and a protected 2018 1st round pick

FIFY

[picc]

Lebron and Wade worked. Harden Durant and Westbrook worked. Lebron and Irving works. People were even using the"only one ball" argument against this years warriors. Its a stupid argument that has no real basis in reality as far as i can recall. To add to that, both Harden and Paul can shoot well from distance. So whats this about?

Can someone show me an example of two+ supremely talented ball dominant players in their prime not working out?

Because right now it just seems like another case of realgmers outsmarting themselves into doubting something common sense should tell them is a good thing.

[ocelot17]

Looks like good fit to me...

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[HotTubMike]

I'm not trying to convince myself that LeBron is staying, at all.

I've been pretty consistent in saying that I believe LeBron will go wherever his best chance at beating the Warriors is.

I also think it's likely the banana boat happens - I do not, however, think it's likely that it happens in Houston. The only reason that this talk of Houston has started is because CP3 got traded there (which is ironic considering LeBron plays in Cleveland, and is the best of the bunch). So let's review:

LeBron >>>>>>>>>> CP3

LeBron also appears to be the leader of the banana boat crew, and is the one who the public remembers saying he would like to play with them

Wherever they go, it's likely that LeBron is the highest paid of the group - it makes more sense to sign everyone else and then have the bird rights to LeBron to maximize cap flexibility

LeBron has ties to Cleveland - DWade to Chicago - Melo to New York - Paul has no ties to Houston, yet the other three are all going to leave where they are tied to and play in Houston?? They have to leave and play somewhere, but it seems unlikely they would all assemble in Houston when they have ties to where they currently are

CP3 wanted LA to get something for him rather than him leaving in FA

The Cavs have discussed trades involving both Kyrie and Love

This all points to the crew coming to Cleveland. LeBron being the best and the leader is likely to ultimately decide where they play; the Cavs having the bird rights to LeBron is an advantage no other team has, unless you're banking on LeBron playing for $15 million/year; the Cavs are willing to clear the decks and assemble an entirely new team; it's beneficial to CP3 to only be under contract for one year so that he can join wherever the others join, and since he wanted to get something for LA, it makes sense that he asked orchestrated this trade, but doesn't mean he will be playing in Houston beyond one year.

I'm on record as saying if LeBron leaves, he leaves. Because we'll either beat the Warriors this year, get a whole new team the year after, or LeBron will leave. Those are the choices. I'm fine with LeBron leaving if that's what he decides is best for him. But right now I would have Cleveland as the spot for the banana boat crew.

CP3 just FORCED his way to Houston. He WANTED to team up with Harden... This is what he wants... he could have gone anywhere in FA in a few days. He wants to be in Houston with Harden.

You seriously believe CP3 forced his way to Houston to get assets for the Clippers and then bolt after wasting a year of his prime?

A core of CP3 and Harden can recruit other guys to come to Houston now... it makes way more sense than going somewhere else and Harden ain't coming. You can dismiss Harden but guys like Lebron respect Harden and would love to play with him. Harden can't leave Houston but Lebron can leave Cleveland.

Houston has CP3's bird rights... they have Harden under contract.... they can sign Lebron and then re-sign CP3 with his bird rights and have Harden.

It's not as easy as you think to trade Kyrie and Love without taking back any salary dude... it's delusional... Cavs are in cap hell while the Rockets are in a very good position. Very unlikely any Banana boat forms there.

Lol we'll have to agree to disagree. It's a safer bet that the team with the best player in the NBA keeps him than it is that he leaves for a team that he has zero ties to.

I think if the banana boat crew wants to get together, they all need to "waste a year of their prime". That's an irrelevant comment. The reality is they can't all get together this year, so...yes, he needs to play somewhere.

LeBron/Kyrie are a much better "core" than CP3 and Harden - their salaries would even be the same. If the Cavs can clear up space aside from those two, then that's what will probably happen. With a comment like "Harden can't leave Houston but LeBron can leave Cleveland" it seems like you place Harden somewhere in the same realm as LeBron in terms of value - he's nowhere close.

The Rockets and Cavs are in similar cap situations aside from Kevin Love, who should be traded this offseason.

I think you're severly underestimating the cap situation Cleveland is in... and way overestimating Houston's cap position.

Cleveland has $128 million (25 million over the cap) committed for 2018/2019 ..... guys like Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Irving, Love .... all have massive contracts owed to them that year... you have absolutely no flexibility to bring in CP3 or anyone else without getting rid of multiple huge pieces of the team...

Meanwhile Houston has $75 million committed with tons of flexibility.

Absolutely nobody is saying Cleveland is in a good cap situation right now... there situation is awful and they have no picks to help move salary.

If Lebron wants to play with CP3 its going to be in Houston and not Cleveland. Like I said, CP3 forced his way to Houston to play with Harden (something you won't address). Lebron respects Harden and badly wants to play with CP3. It makes a lot of sense for Lebron to come to Houston in 2018 if he doesn't want to roll with cap hell in Cleveland. Cleveland cannot make any significant moves at all.

[bmurph128]

CP3 just FORCED his way to Houston. He WANTED to team up with Harden... This is what he wants... he could have gone anywhere in FA in a few days. He wants to be in Houston with Harden.

You seriously believe CP3 forced his way to Houston to get assets for the Clippers and then bolt after wasting a year of his prime?

A core of CP3 and Harden can recruit other guys to come to Houston now... it makes way more sense than going somewhere else and Harden ain't coming. You can dismiss Harden but guys like Lebron respect Harden and would love to play with him. Harden can't leave Houston but Lebron can leave Cleveland.

Houston has CP3's bird rights... they have Harden under contract.... they can sign Lebron and then re-sign CP3 with his bird rights and have Harden.

It's not as easy as you think to trade Kyrie and Love without taking back any salary dude... it's delusional... Cavs are in cap hell while the Rockets are in a very good position. Very unlikely any Banana boat forms there.

Lol we'll have to agree to disagree. It's a safer bet that the team with the best player in the NBA keeps him than it is that he leaves for a team that he has zero ties to.

I think if the banana boat crew wants to get together, they all need to "waste a year of their prime". That's an irrelevant comment. The reality is they can't all get together this year, so...yes, he needs to play somewhere.

LeBron/Kyrie are a much better "core" than CP3 and Harden - their salaries would even be the same. If the Cavs can clear up space aside from those two, then that's what will probably happen. With a comment like "Harden can't leave Houston but LeBron can leave Cleveland" it seems like you place Harden somewhere in the same realm as LeBron in terms of value - he's nowhere close.

The Rockets and Cavs are in similar cap situations aside from Kevin Love, who should be traded this offseason.

I think you're severly underestimating the cap situation Cleveland is in... and way overestimating Houston's cap position.

Cleveland has $128 million (25 million over the cap) committed for 2018/2019 ..... guys like Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Irving, Love .... all have massive contracts owed to them that year... you have absolutely no flexibility to bring in CP3 or anyone else without getting rid of multiple huge pieces of the team...

Meanwhile Houston has $75 million committed with tons of flexibility.

Absolutely nobody is saying Cleveland is in a good cap situation right now... there situation is awful and they have no picks to help move salary.

If Lebron wants to play with CP3 its going to be in Houston and not Cleveland. Like I said, CP3 forced his way to Houston to play with Harden (something you won't address). Lebron respects Harden and badly wants to play with CP3. It makes a lot of sense for Lebron to come to Houston in 2018 if he doesn't want to roll with cap hell in Cleveland. Cleveland cannot make any significant moves at all.

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

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[HotTubMike]

Lol we'll have to agree to disagree. It's a safer bet that the team with the best player in the NBA keeps him than it is that he leaves for a team that he has zero ties to.

I think if the banana boat crew wants to get together, they all need to "waste a year of their prime". That's an irrelevant comment. The reality is they can't all get together this year, so...yes, he needs to play somewhere.

LeBron/Kyrie are a much better "core" than CP3 and Harden - their salaries would even be the same. If the Cavs can clear up space aside from those two, then that's what will probably happen. With a comment like "Harden can't leave Houston but LeBron can leave Cleveland" it seems like you place Harden somewhere in the same realm as LeBron in terms of value - he's nowhere close.

The Rockets and Cavs are in similar cap situations aside from Kevin Love, who should be traded this offseason.

I think you're severly underestimating the cap situation Cleveland is in... and way overestimating Houston's cap position.

Cleveland has $128 million (25 million over the cap) committed for 2018/2019 ..... guys like Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Irving, Love .... all have massive contracts owed to them that year... you have absolutely no flexibility to bring in CP3 or anyone else without getting rid of multiple huge pieces of the team...

Meanwhile Houston has $75 million committed with tons of flexibility.

Absolutely nobody is saying Cleveland is in a good cap situation right now... there situation is awful and they have no picks to help move salary.

If Lebron wants to play with CP3 its going to be in Houston and not Cleveland. Like I said, CP3 forced his way to Houston to play with Harden (something you won't address). Lebron respects Harden and badly wants to play with CP3. It makes a lot of sense for Lebron to come to Houston in 2018 if he doesn't want to roll with cap hell in Cleveland. Cleveland cannot make any significant moves at all.

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

Sent from my SM-T350 using RealGM mobile app

You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

[Guest202]

The banana boat theory is comedy. They'll all be old and washed in 2018-19. It'll look far worse than the Lakers with Malone and Payton. Bron's going to seek out young gunners to extend his career. Something like Bron, Ball, PG-13, Cousins. But if I were Bron I'd avoid the west and go to the Celtics.

[bmurph128]

I think you're severly underestimating the cap situation Cleveland is in... and way overestimating Houston's cap position.

Cleveland has $128 million (25 million over the cap) committed for 2018/2019 ..... guys like Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Irving, Love .... all have massive contracts owed to them that year... you have absolutely no flexibility to bring in CP3 or anyone else without getting rid of multiple huge pieces of the team...

Meanwhile Houston has $75 million committed with tons of flexibility.

Absolutely nobody is saying Cleveland is in a good cap situation right now... there situation is awful and they have no picks to help move salary.

If Lebron wants to play with CP3 its going to be in Houston and not Cleveland. Like I said, CP3 forced his way to Houston to play with Harden (something you won't address). Lebron respects Harden and badly wants to play with CP3. It makes a lot of sense for Lebron to come to Houston in 2018 if he doesn't want to roll with cap hell in Cleveland. Cleveland cannot make any significant moves at all.

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

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You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Depends on how serious the Cavs are. Shumpert, Love and Kyrie are all young enough to fetch draft picks from teams that could absorb their salaries, it would work.

And again, they could potentially keep one of those guys if CP3, Melo and Wade took about $15 million each.

Heck, they could keep Kyrie and Shumpert if they would take $10 million each. Doubt CP3 does that though.

If there's one thing I've learned from the Cavs over the years, it's that anything is possible with the cap.

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[nk657]

Lebron and Wade worked. Harden Durant and Westbrook worked. Lebron and Irving works. People were even using the"only one ball" argument against this years warriors. Its a stupid argument that has no real basis in reality as far as i can recall. To add to that, both Harden and Paul can shoot well from distance. So whats this about?

Can someone show me an example of two+ supremely talented ball dominant players in their prime not working out?

Because right now it just seems like another case of realgmers outsmarting themselves into doubting something common sense should tell them is a good thing.

There are many examples of all stars who played together and did not work well. You mentioned Harden , Westbrook and Durant. No that chemistry did not work. If it had worked Harden would still be in OKC. And OKC would have a dynasty. Wade with Lebron had better chemistry than Irving and Lebron.

Other recent examples:
Butler-Rondo
Carmelo-D. Rose-
Carmelo-Studemire
Carmelo-Iverson (Nuggets)
Kevin Love With Lebron
Le Marcus Aldridge with Leonard( Do you think they fit with eachtoher?)
Let me remind you that all these trades/transactions were made with the highest ambitions of their teams who purchased them.

To be fair you mentioned 2 important words "Dominant", and "Prime" . YEs well of course you refer to a specific group of talented players who could be future HOF. Then I must say as well that any future HOF can play in any team with any other all star next to him, because they are just too good not to play well.
Under that perspective you are correct. But its more than obvious than some all stars fit better with other all stars and some others do not. For example no one tho had suspected that D.Howard's career would have such a decline from the moment he left Orlando. Same can happen with CP3 or with other player.Some players just dont fit with some teams..Cp3 wouldn't fit better with Spurs?

[BallerTalk]

Patrick Beverly was not a fit to D'antoni's system anywyas ----- he played defense.

That might make sense if Beverley hadn't just completed the best season of his career under D'Antoni.

By the way, D'Antoni just said Beverley is one of his top 5 favorite players he's ever coached.