Safe to say, Chet "Hologram" Holgrem > Paolo Banchero

[Duke4life831]

Both guys are studs

[uraverage]

I'm going with the player that won ROY their first year in the NBA.

[dc]

I'm going with the player that won ROY their first year in the NBA.

Not a great criteria. Okafor won ROY over Dwight and MCW was also ROY.

[byeganyo]

I'm going with the player that won ROY their first year in the NBA.

Not a great criteria. Okafor won ROY over Dwight and MCW was also ROY.

how many times the player that won rookie of the year wasnt top 3 in their class, barring injuries?

[dc]

I'm going with the player that won ROY their first year in the NBA.

Not a great criteria. Okafor won ROY over Dwight and MCW was also ROY.

how many times the player that won rookie of the year wasnt top 3 in their class, barring injuries?

in somewhat recent memory?

Damon Stoudamire (McDyess, KG, Sheed, Finley)
Okafor (Dwight, Deng, Iggy, Big Al, Josh Smith)
Tyreke Evans (Steph, Harden, Blake, Jrue)
MCW (Giannis, KCP, Gobert, Schroder, THJ, Adams, CJ, etc)
Wiggins (Embiid, Jokic, Lavine)
Brogdon (Jaylen, Ingram, Murray, Siakim)
Simmons (rookie year a year after he was drafted, so same list as Brogdon)

[byeganyo]

Not a great criteria. Okafor won ROY over Dwight and MCW was also ROY.

how many times the player that won rookie of the year wasnt top 3 in their class, barring injuries?

in somewhat recent memory?

Damon Stoudamire (McDyess, KG, Sheed, Finley)
Okafor (Dwight, Deng, Iggy, Big Al, Josh Smith)
Tyreke Evans (Steph, Harden, Blake, Jrue)
MCW (Giannis, KCP, Gobert Schroder, THJ, Adams, CJ, etc)
Wiggins (Embiid, Jokic, Lavine)
Brogdon (Jaylen, Ingram, Murray, Siakim)
Simmons (rookie year a year after he was drafted, so same list as Brogdon)

Wiggins is debatable, im not taking Lavine over him and Simmons i'll put in injury/mental illness category... so 5 out of 30 or so, winning ROY is usually a good indictment of players career.

[dc]

Wiggins is debatable, im not taking Lavine over him and Simmons i'll put in injury/mental illness category... so 5 out of 30 or so, winning ROY is usually a good indictment of players career.

You could also possibly throw in Aaron Gordon for the Wiggins year.

Also in 1999, Steve Francis was co-ROY with Elton Brand. But I think AK47, Marion, Ginobili and Rip Hamilton were better. He had a good peak, but counting longevity, even guys like Odom and Artest were better.

[Xatticus]

I think it's insane that Bill Simmons had Paolo number 8 on his trade value list, when he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Franz Wagner has a NetRtg of 9.29 when Paolo is off the court (while Paolo is -5.21 with Franz off). He is a better offensive and defensive player than Paolo.

If Paolo is 8th in the league in trade value, then he should be traded. He isn't anywhere near that high on a list of the best players in the league and he almost certainly never will be.

[Xatticus]

what % of time with the ball is chet doubled? and chet is not close to top player on his team that other team plans to stop..i mean do teams plan stop chet and you win the game? i think not..i mean he scored next to nothing till 4th when game was over and he was left wide open ...sure cant give him ball at top and say go get a bucket time after time...maybe once a game
mo wagner bully balled the guy he better get in the weight room ...glass breaks easy

Mo can score. Mo has always been able to score, but Mo is one of the worst defensive bigs in the NBA. Look at the respective plus/minus totals for the game between the two. OKC destroyed Orlando when Mo was on the floor.

[Bergmaniac]

I think it's insane that Bill Simmons had Paolo number 8 on his trade value list, when he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Franz Wagner has a NetRtg of 9.29 when Paolo is off the court (while Paolo is -5.21 with Franz off). He is a better offensive and defensive player than Paolo.

People keep saying this but if you watch the game Paolo is the better player. Most plays are ran through Paolo and Paolo is pretty much creating for everyone including Franz (this is not to say that Franz doesn’t create his own shot). And the fact that Paolo is consistently doubled shows how much he is feared. There is a reason why coaches, players, and those in media voted for Paolo as an all star.

I watch all the Magic games and I think Franz is better, mostly because he is a way better defender. And both this year and last year the lineups with Franz on the court and Paolo on the bench do very well while the lineups with Paolo on the court and Franz on the bench do quite poorly and that's not a coincidence. People try to explain it away, but for me it's pretty clear who is the most impactful player currently. Maybe Paolo would be better one day, but for now that's not the case IMO.

[SOUL]

I think it's insane that Bill Simmons had Paolo number 8 on his trade value list, when he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Franz Wagner has a NetRtg of 9.29 when Paolo is off the court (while Paolo is -5.21 with Franz off). He is a better offensive and defensive player than Paolo.

People keep saying this but if you watch the game Paolo is the better player. Most plays are ran through Paolo and Paolo is pretty much creating for everyone including Franz (this is not to say that Franz doesn’t create his own shot). And the fact that Paolo is consistently doubled shows how much he is feared. There is a reason why coaches, players, and those in media voted for Paolo as an all star.

I watch all the Magic games and I think Franz is better, mostly because he is a way better defender. And both this year and last year the lineups with Franz on the court and Paolo on the bench do very well while the lineups with Paolo on the court and Franz on the bench do quite poorly and that's not a coincidence. People try to explain it away, but for me it's pretty clear who is the most impactful player currently. Maybe Paolo would be better one day, but for now that's not the case IMO.

Value and best current player are different things though.

[Xatticus]

I think it's insane that Bill Simmons had Paolo number 8 on his trade value list, when he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Franz Wagner has a NetRtg of 9.29 when Paolo is off the court (while Paolo is -5.21 with Franz off). He is a better offensive and defensive player than Paolo.

People keep saying this but if you watch the game Paolo is the better player. Most plays are ran through Paolo and Paolo is pretty much creating for everyone including Franz (this is not to say that Franz doesn’t create his own shot). And the fact that Paolo is consistently doubled shows how much he is feared. There is a reason why coaches, players, and those in media voted for Paolo as an all star.

It really comes down to how much you understand of what you are watching. I know that many people only really see what a player does with the ball in their hands, and so they default to believing that the players that have the ball in their hands the most are the best players on the floor.

I actually thought Paolo played well last night, at least relative to the few times I have watched him play over the last couple years. He made some good reads and got the ball where it needed to go, whereas he has forced up a lot of bad field goal attempts when I watched him previously.

Chet is our defensive anchor and he punishes teams that leave him open. The list of players that could provide to OKC what he does is exceedingly short. He dramatically improves our defense. At the offensive end, he complements Jalen and SGA by hitting shots and keeping the paint clean.

For what it's worth, Jalen is better at doing what Paolo does than Paolo is. Jalen is a shot-maker that doesn't have to get to the free throw line 10 times to have a positive impact in a game. He'll beat you by putting the ball in the basket.

[basketballRob]

I think it's insane that Bill Simmons had Paolo number 8 on his trade value list, when he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Franz Wagner has a NetRtg of 9.29 when Paolo is off the court (while Paolo is -5.21 with Franz off). He is a better offensive and defensive player than Paolo.

People keep saying this but if you watch the game Paolo is the better player. Most plays are ran through Paolo and Paolo is pretty much creating for everyone including Franz (this is not to say that Franz doesn’t create his own shot). And the fact that Paolo is consistently doubled shows how much he is feared. There is a reason why coaches, players, and those in media voted for Paolo as an all star.

It really comes down to how much you understand of what you are watching. I know that many people only really see what a player does with the ball in their hands, and so they default to believing that the players that have the ball in their hands the most are the best players on the floor.

I actually thought Paolo played well last night, at least relative to the few times I have watched him play over the last couple years. He made some good reads and got the ball where it needed to go, whereas he has forced up a lot of bad field goal attempts when I watched him previously.

Chet is our defensive anchor and he punishes teams that leave him open. The list of players that could provide to OKC what he does is exceedingly short. He dramatically improves our defense. At the offensive end, he complements Jalen and SGA by hitting shots and keeping the paint clean.

For what it's worth, Jalen is better at doing what Paolo does than Paolo is. Jalen is a shot-maker that doesn't have to get to the free throw line 10 times to have a positive impact in a game. He'll beat you by putting the ball in the basket.

Jalen is nearly 2 years older than Paolo. Paolo will be a much better player in 2 years

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[SOUL]

I actually thought Paolo played well last night, at least relative to the few times I have watched him play over the last couple years. He made some good reads and got the ball where it needed to go, whereas he has forced up a lot of bad field goal attempts when I watched him previously.

It's all about his decision making with long twos/pump faking and just going up stronger inside as well. The rest of it is pretty much there. Don't think he'll ever be a great free throw shooter but even getting it up to 76-78% is doable and naturally maturing as a scorer will make his offense that much more potent.

He's not quite there yet efficiency wise, but I think to claim he'll never get there is also very hasty. If he physically couldn't get to the rim I'd have more of an issue, just seems like he overthinks too often. Basically simplifying his game. I think it also helps having Franz and being able to work with him seeing as he's been trying to cut inefficient shots out of his game.

[orlando_joe]

what % of time with the ball is chet doubled? and chet is not close to top player on his team that other team plans to stop..i mean do teams plan stop chet and you win the game? i think not..i mean he scored next to nothing till 4th when game was over and he was left wide open ...sure cant give him ball at top and say go get a bucket time after time...maybe once a game
mo wagner bully balled the guy he better get in the weight room ...glass breaks easy

Mo can score. Mo has always been able to score, but Mo is one of the worst defensive bigs in the NBA. Look at the respective plus/minus totals for the game between the two. OKC destroyed Orlando when Mo was on the floor.

well thats what happens when one team wins...i mean its 5 on 5 play mo when suggs isaac ,paolo and franz you get different +/- in wins..but yea mo not good on that end but point was a strong guy will give chet problem in playoffs and thats all he will see

[Bourne85]

It’s actually not safe to say. Paolo is holding his own. Chet needs to put some muscle on.

[SOUL]

Jalen is nearly 2 years older than Paolo. Paolo will be a much better player in 2 years

So will Jalen.

[basketballRob]

Jalen is nearly 2 years older than Paolo. Paolo will be a much better player in 2 years

So will Jalen.

He's closer to his peak at 23 than 21. Usually, around 24, you start reaching your peak.

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[SOUL]

Jalen is nearly 2 years older than Paolo. Paolo will be a much better player in 2 years

So will Jalen.

He's closer to his peak at 23 than 21. Usually, around 24, you start reaching your peak.

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Huh? NBA peaks are like 26-30 for a lot of players.

Regardless, it's disingenuous to say a guy literally born one year ahead of Paolo (2001 vs 2002) is capped and Paolo has years and years.

The three years of college surely helped him, if that's what you're trying to get at. Otherwise, they both have pretty damn high ceilings.

[basketballRob]

So will Jalen.

He's closer to his peak at 23 than 21. Usually, around 24, you start reaching your peak.

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Huh? NBA peaks are like 26-30 for a lot of players.

Regardless, it's disingenuous to say a guy literally born one year ahead of Paolo (2001 vs 2002) is capped and Paolo has years and years.

The three years of college surely helped him, if that's what you're trying to get at. Otherwise, they both have pretty damn high ceilings.

He's going to be 23 in April.

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