2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[lethalizer]

OKC without Shai would still be a playoff team.

I hope this wasn't an actual sincere statement.

Come on man.

What do you mean?

Caruso
Dort
J. Will
Chet
Hartenstein

Joe
Wallace
Wiggins
Mitchell
etc

That team might be the best defensive team in the league and has lots of shooting around J Will plus his shot creation and Chet's shooting ability. That is for sure a team that's at least play-in / borderline play in.

Westbrook
Murray
Braun
Porter Jr
Gordon

Strawther
Peyton Watson
DeAndre Jordan

Lmao those teams are not even close to the same.

Notice I didn't even compare the supporting cast of OKC to Denver. Jokic can also win the MVP, I don't care about the award itself.

Saying OKC is a playoff team without Shai is an absolutely insane statement. That's all I'm saying.

It's JDub, not JWill by the way.

[AleksandarN]

You know what I find funny you have a lot of jokic people stating that SGA is in lead in the mvp race currently yet you don’t hear us bad mouthing SGA as much as the other fans try to bring down Jokic. It is pathetic.

[Special_Puppy]

Jokic puts up big stats, but he's been really bad on D lately. I don't know why no one acknowledges this in MVP discussions.

Nobody talks about Jokic's defense. Not like its the number 1 criticism of Jokic for several years now.

[Special_Puppy]

So yeah, his stats are nice. But he's not playing championship basketball.

He's number 1 or 2 in basically every advanced stat. Do you just not believe them and think that Jokic has been less valuable than they suggest?

[mediocrityrules]

This is why I like Giannis being a clear third in this year's race. No one's bitching about him because he's currently not a threat to the other two, even as good as he's playing. He can just quietly go about doing his thing.

[Special_Puppy]

Giannis is a big stinky doo-doo head who hates hard working ladders

[mediocrityrules]

Giannis is a big stinky doo-doo head who hates hard working ladders

You know that ladder had it comin'

[Big J]

So yeah, his stats are nice. But he's not playing championship basketball.

He's number 1 or 2 in basically every advanced stat. Do you just not believe them and think that Jokic has been less valuable than they suggest?

If he’s number 1 or 2 in defensive stats then those stats are worthless because he’s conceding layups on a regular basis.

[Packbuckman]

Giannis still to me is the best player but his Achilles heal like the other dominate players Wilt and Shaq is the Ft line. But with Giannis it’s a mental thing he’s had years in the 70’s if he was shooting that this year he would be leading the league in scoring easily and it would be 3 man race.

[Special_Puppy]

So yeah, his stats are nice. But he's not playing championship basketball.

He's number 1 or 2 in basically every advanced stat. Do you just not believe them and think that Jokic has been less valuable than they suggest?

If he’s number 1 or 2 in defensive stats then those stats are worthless because he’s conceding layups on a regular basis.

He’s number 1 and 2 in overall advanced stats. Not number 1 and 2 in defensive advanced stats

[kazyv]

So yeah, his stats are nice. But he's not playing championship basketball.

He's number 1 or 2 in basically every advanced stat. Do you just not believe them and think that Jokic has been less valuable than they suggest?

If he’s number 1 or 2 in defensive stats then those stats are worthless because he’s conceding layups on a regular basis.

every team gives up layups every single game. some more, some less. the point of advanced stats is to look at the big picture, not to make empty statements on forums. if jokic was so bad on defense, he'd be getting exposed all day, every day in every game. as it we know, that's not what happens

[Exp0sed]

He's number 1 or 2 in basically every advanced stat. Do you just not believe them and think that Jokic has been less valuable than they suggest?

If he’s number 1 or 2 in defensive stats then those stats are worthless because he’s conceding layups on a regular basis.

every team gives up layups every single game. some more, some less. the point of advanced stats is to look at the big picture, not to make empty statements on forums. if jokic was so bad on defense, he'd be getting exposed all day, every day in every game. as it we know, that's not what happens

folks are losing their mind tryin' to hate on Big Jok. what i mean is, it'd be pretty hard to understate just how bad guys like MPJ and Murray have been defending these past couple of months. AG has also been just abysmal defensively ever since he came back from a long injury, he'll turn it around on D but currenly he's getting blown by every single opponent more often than not. even someone like Watson, whose by far the Nuggets best shotblocker and makes highlight defensive plays, makes egregious decisions and positioninig mistakes very often. Braun has basically been their most consistent defender and honestly their 2nd best player this season and if Braun is your 2nd best player well...ur team just isn't that good

they're playing awful as a team on D, Jokic is certainly a part of these issues but guys are just missing coverages and doing boneheaded things on D on basically every other possession. yeah, it looks bad when he concedes layups (can't afford to get ticky-tacky fouls as the Nuggets lose by like 3 pts every min his off the floor lol) but his guys are putting him in impossible situations

i guess ppl are hating and not even watching the games, otherwise they'd know better
i'd fire Malone honestly, he's just a bad coach that's benefited from the Nuggets drafting Jokic, otherwise he'd be an assistant somewhere rn. his schemes defensively are either awful or it might be the players are just doing whatever and not even listening to him. both are fireable offenses.

give Jokic Lonzo Ball and Ayo instead of Murray and MPj, give him Deandre Hunter and Mobley and you'll hear those same posters clamoring about his defense, crowning him a top 5 ever player following a couple more championships


edit: you have teams like the Lakers with AD playing at a fringe MVP level ,alongside a 40 year old LBJ and some capable role player and they still won less games than these Nuggets. it's very hard to build a complete roster, with no bad contracts, getting bang for your buck all around with the the CBA, 2nd apron and that holds especially true for small market teams like Denver

Nuggets are stuck with Murray's albatross contract and a few bad moves (the Cancar and NNaji bizarre extentions) and having to give up 2nd rd,,,,. picks to cut Reggie Jackson, all of which have killed their ability to make any real moves this season

get that man some proper help

[Packbuckman]

If he’s number 1 or 2 in defensive stats then those stats are worthless because he’s conceding layups on a regular basis.

every team gives up layups every single game. some more, some less. the point of advanced stats is to look at the big picture, not to make empty statements on forums. if jokic was so bad on defense, he'd be getting exposed all day, every day in every game. as it we know, that's not what happens

folks are losing their mind tryin' to hate on Big Jok. what i mean is, it'd be pretty hard to understate just how bad guys like MPJ and Murray have been defending these past couple of months. AG has also been just abysmal defensively ever since he came back from a long injury, he'll turn it around on D but currenly he's getting blown by every single opponent more often than not. even someone like Watson, whose by far the Nuggets best shotblocker and makes highlight defensive plays, makes egregious decisions and positioninig mistakes very often. Braun has basically been their most consistent defender and honestly their 2nd best player this season and if Braun is your 2nd best player well...ur team just isn't that good

they're playing awful as a team on D, Jokic is certainly a part of these issues but guys are just missing coverages and doing boneheaded things on D on basically every other possession. yeah, it looks bad when he concedes layups (can't afford to get ticky-tacky fouls as the Nuggets lose by like 3 pts every min his off the floor lol) but his guys are putting him in impossible situations

i guess ppl are hating and not even watching the games, otherwise they'd know better
i'd fire Malone honestly, he's just a bad coach that's benefited from the Nuggets drafting Jokic, otherwise he'd be an assistant somewhere rn. his schemes defensively are either awful or it might be the players are just doing whatever and not even listening to him. both are fireable offenses.

give Jokic Lonzo Ball and Ayo instead of Murray and MPj, give him Deandre Hunter and Mobley and you'll hear those same posters clamoring about his defense, crowning him a top 5 ever player following a couple more championships


edit: you have teams like the Lakers with AD playing at a fringe MVP level ,alongside a 40 year old LBJ and some capable role player and they still won less games than these Nuggets. it's very hard to build a complete roster, with no bad contracts, getting bang for your buck all around with the the CBA, 2nd apron and that holds especially true for small market teams like Denver

Nuggets are stuck with Murray's albatross contract and a few bad moves (the Cancar and NNaji bizarre extentions) and having to give up 2nd rd,,,,. picks to cut Reggie Jackson, all of which have killed their ability to make any real moves this season

get that man some proper help

You can say that about Giannis too if Middleton wouldn’t be injured or Lopez getting old you play with who you got not who is going to hide your deficiencies with jokic and nuggets is rim protection.
Jokic teammates are not as bad as some on this forum think they are one of the best shooting teams jokic and Westbrook are passing to someone for all those assists. Their D is the problem and that ain’t changing even if you replace Murray

[Woodsanity]

every team gives up layups every single game. some more, some less. the point of advanced stats is to look at the big picture, not to make empty statements on forums. if jokic was so bad on defense, he'd be getting exposed all day, every day in every game. as it we know, that's not what happens

folks are losing their mind tryin' to hate on Big Jok. what i mean is, it'd be pretty hard to understate just how bad guys like MPJ and Murray have been defending these past couple of months. AG has also been just abysmal defensively ever since he came back from a long injury, he'll turn it around on D but currenly he's getting blown by every single opponent more often than not. even someone like Watson, whose by far the Nuggets best shotblocker and makes highlight defensive plays, makes egregious decisions and positioninig mistakes very often. Braun has basically been their most consistent defender and honestly their 2nd best player this season and if Braun is your 2nd best player well...ur team just isn't that good

they're playing awful as a team on D, Jokic is certainly a part of these issues but guys are just missing coverages and doing boneheaded things on D on basically every other possession. yeah, it looks bad when he concedes layups (can't afford to get ticky-tacky fouls as the Nuggets lose by like 3 pts every min his off the floor lol) but his guys are putting him in impossible situations

i guess ppl are hating and not even watching the games, otherwise they'd know better
i'd fire Malone honestly, he's just a bad coach that's benefited from the Nuggets drafting Jokic, otherwise he'd be an assistant somewhere rn. his schemes defensively are either awful or it might be the players are just doing whatever and not even listening to him. both are fireable offenses.

give Jokic Lonzo Ball and Ayo instead of Murray and MPj, give him Deandre Hunter and Mobley and you'll hear those same posters clamoring about his defense, crowning him a top 5 ever player following a couple more championships


edit: you have teams like the Lakers with AD playing at a fringe MVP level ,alongside a 40 year old LBJ and some capable role player and they still won less games than these Nuggets. it's very hard to build a complete roster, with no bad contracts, getting bang for your buck all around with the the CBA, 2nd apron and that holds especially true for small market teams like Denver

Nuggets are stuck with Murray's albatross contract and a few bad moves (the Cancar and NNaji bizarre extentions) and having to give up 2nd rd,,,,. picks to cut Reggie Jackson, all of which have killed their ability to make any real moves this season

get that man some proper help

You can say that about Giannis too if Middleton wouldn’t be injured or Lopez getting old you play with who you got not who is going to hide your deficiencies with jokic and nuggets is rim protection.
Jokic teammates are not as bad as some on this forum think they are one of the best shooting teams jokic and Westbrook are passing to someone for all those assists. Their D is the problem and that ain’t changing even if you replace Murray

Nuggets are dead last in 3 point attempts. Not sure where you get the good shooting team from. Only Jokic and MPJ are good 3 point shooters on that team.

Problem with Murray is his offense is mediocre at best along with matador defense. If he had Lillard level offensive production he would be fine.

[Big J]

If he’s number 1 or 2 in defensive stats then those stats are worthless because he’s conceding layups on a regular basis.

every team gives up layups every single game. some more, some less. the point of advanced stats is to look at the big picture, not to make empty statements on forums. if jokic was so bad on defense, he'd be getting exposed all day, every day in every game. as it we know, that's not what happens

folks are losing their mind tryin' to hate on Big Jok. what i mean is, it'd be pretty hard to understate just how bad guys like MPJ and Murray have been defending these past couple of months. AG has also been just abysmal defensively ever since he came back from a long injury, he'll turn it around on D but currenly he's getting blown by every single opponent more often than not. even someone like Watson, whose by far the Nuggets best shotblocker and makes highlight defensive plays, makes egregious decisions and positioninig mistakes very often. Braun has basically been their most consistent defender and honestly their 2nd best player this season and if Braun is your 2nd best player well...ur team just isn't that good

they're playing awful as a team on D, Jokic is certainly a part of these issues but guys are just missing coverages and doing boneheaded things on D on basically every other possession. yeah, it looks bad when he concedes layups (can't afford to get ticky-tacky fouls as the Nuggets lose by like 3 pts every min his off the floor lol) but his guys are putting him in impossible situations

i guess ppl are hating and not even watching the games, otherwise they'd know better
i'd fire Malone honestly, he's just a bad coach that's benefited from the Nuggets drafting Jokic, otherwise he'd be an assistant somewhere rn. his schemes defensively are either awful or it might be the players are just doing whatever and not even listening to him. both are fireable offenses.

give Jokic Lonzo Ball and Ayo instead of Murray and MPj, give him Deandre Hunter and Mobley and you'll hear those same posters clamoring about his defense, crowning him a top 5 ever player following a couple more championships

edit: you have teams like the Lakers with AD playing at a fringe MVP level ,alongside a 40 year old LBJ and some capable role player and they still won less games than these Nuggets. it's very hard to build a complete roster, with no bad contracts, getting bang for your buck all around with the the CBA, 2nd apron and that holds especially true for small market teams like Denver

Nuggets are stuck with Murray's albatross contract and a few bad moves (the Cancar and NNaji bizarre extentions) and having to give up 2nd rd,,,,. picks to cut Reggie Jackson, all of which have killed their ability to make any real moves this season

get that man some proper help

The excuse of him not contesting out of worry of picking up tick tack fouls is bs. Other players are able to contest shots without getting into foul trouble.

[TinmanZBoy]

every team gives up layups every single game. some more, some less. the point of advanced stats is to look at the big picture, not to make empty statements on forums. if jokic was so bad on defense, he'd be getting exposed all day, every day in every game. as it we know, that's not what happens

folks are losing their mind tryin' to hate on Big Jok. what i mean is, it'd be pretty hard to understate just how bad guys like MPJ and Murray have been defending these past couple of months. AG has also been just abysmal defensively ever since he came back from a long injury, he'll turn it around on D but currenly he's getting blown by every single opponent more often than not. even someone like Watson, whose by far the Nuggets best shotblocker and makes highlight defensive plays, makes egregious decisions and positioninig mistakes very often. Braun has basically been their most consistent defender and honestly their 2nd best player this season and if Braun is your 2nd best player well...ur team just isn't that good

they're playing awful as a team on D, Jokic is certainly a part of these issues but guys are just missing coverages and doing boneheaded things on D on basically every other possession. yeah, it looks bad when he concedes layups (can't afford to get ticky-tacky fouls as the Nuggets lose by like 3 pts every min his off the floor lol) but his guys are putting him in impossible situations

i guess ppl are hating and not even watching the games, otherwise they'd know better
i'd fire Malone honestly, he's just a bad coach that's benefited from the Nuggets drafting Jokic, otherwise he'd be an assistant somewhere rn. his schemes defensively are either awful or it might be the players are just doing whatever and not even listening to him. both are fireable offenses.

give Jokic Lonzo Ball and Ayo instead of Murray and MPj, give him Deandre Hunter and Mobley and you'll hear those same posters clamoring about his defense, crowning him a top 5 ever player following a couple more championships

edit: you have teams like the Lakers with AD playing at a fringe MVP level ,alongside a 40 year old LBJ and some capable role player and they still won less games than these Nuggets. it's very hard to build a complete roster, with no bad contracts, getting bang for your buck all around with the the CBA, 2nd apron and that holds especially true for small market teams like Denver

Nuggets are stuck with Murray's albatross contract and a few bad moves (the Cancar and NNaji bizarre extentions) and having to give up 2nd rd,,,,. picks to cut Reggie Jackson, all of which have killed their ability to make any real moves this season

get that man some proper help

The excuse of him not contesting out of worry of picking up tick tack fouls is bs. Other players are able to contest shots without getting into foul trouble.

The thing about Denver is they could play excellent defense at times, but not always… they basically won their championship round by lock down d … granted KCP and Brown were gone, PWat and Braun are capable to replace them… collectively they are just not there yet on defense…

[Patches Perry]

What do you mean?

Caruso
Dort
J. Will
Chet
Hartenstein

Joe
Wallace
Wiggins
Mitchell
etc

That team might be the best defensive team in the league and has lots of shooting around J Will plus his shot creation and Chet's shooting ability. That is for sure a team that's at least play-in / borderline play in.

Worth pointing out that this team as listed is a bit of a fiction at this point because they haven't played together yet.

Hartenstein has missed 19 of 45 games
Chet has missed 35 of 45 games
Caruso has missed 17 of 45 games

They definitely have deep talent but they haven't really had access to it all year.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I did not remember that the Nuggets signed Murray to that contract, good lord. I feel like that management team was good a few years ago?

[MoneyTalks41890]

What do you mean?

Caruso
Dort
J. Will
Chet
Hartenstein

Joe
Wallace
Wiggins
Mitchell
etc

That team might be the best defensive team in the league and has lots of shooting around J Will plus his shot creation and Chet's shooting ability. That is for sure a team that's at least play-in / borderline play in.

Worth pointing out that this team as listed is a bit of a fiction at this point because they haven't played together yet.

Hartenstein has missed 19 of 45 games
Chet has missed 35 of 45 games
Caruso has missed 17 of 45 games

They definitely have deep talent but they haven't really had access to it all year.

OKC 6-6 on games where one of Hart or Chet isn’t playing, which is 6 of their 8 losses overall.

[scrabbarista]

What do you mean?

Caruso
Dort
J. Will
Chet
Hartenstein

Joe
Wallace
Wiggins
Mitchell
etc

That team might be the best defensive team in the league and has lots of shooting around J Will plus his shot creation and Chet's shooting ability. That is for sure a team that's at least play-in / borderline play in.

Worth pointing out that this team as listed is a bit of a fiction at this point because they haven't played together yet.

Hartenstein has missed 19 of 45 games
Chet has missed 35 of 45 games
Caruso has missed 17 of 45 games

They definitely have deep talent but they haven't really had access to it all year.

OKC 6-6 on games where one of Hart or Chet isn’t playing, which is 6 of their 8 losses overall.

You mean both and, not one or.