Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth

[Ryoga Hibiki]

That's a reasonable take, but his moves on the margins were pretty damaging.

- signing Zeke to 4 years at $8million per
- giving Jackson the 2nd year option, then trading 3 2nds to move him
- giving Saric the 2nd year option
- giving Russ the 2nd year option (Russ has been better than expected, but he didn't have to do that)
- basically telling the rest of the league who he wanted to draft, severely weakening his leverage when moving around the draft ladder

Each of these things on in isolation is forgiveable but in agregate they leave the Nugs in a pretty bad spot.

you forgot trading 3 picks for Thomas Bryant.
but I don't see these as firable offenses (the Russ one in particular looks like a good move, actually).
not he had his FRP overperforminv their position.
and, once again, I am convinced a lot of this is coming from hisbfeud with Malone.
Some of these were not bad moves per se. They were when you and your coach are fighting on everything and he'll use the players to attack you.
Some others were move you can defend but that didn't work.

so we can see evidence of this split between Malone and Booth from back then. Booth trades 3 picks for Bryant which was crazy at the time. I mean, Bryant is a decent player but the Nuggets lacked front court depth, especially on the defensive end and Bryant is a "big" but plays no defense and doesn't have the size of an actual big. so okay, that's a terrible use of assets but then Malone doesn't even play Bryant at all..that doesn't seem normal, seems like Booth was making these moves without consulting his HC which is kinda weird..

Bryant was having one heck of a season with the Lakers.
He joined the Nuggets and never played.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Except they were trending in the wrong direction. Winning a title to 2nd round exit to likely 1st round exit, we saw that trend with the Lakers under Vogel, and Bucks under Bud. He was gone either way. Better to do it now.

Roster issue.

I'm not defending the roster. But it was Malone's job to create a lineup that could weather the storm with Jokic sitting on the bench.

I think Malone made the bench look worse than what it could have been, in particular insisting on the 5 men bench lineups

[Exp0sed]

Bryant was having one heck of a season with the Lakers.
He joined the Nuggets and never played.

I remember it well..it was bizarre at the time too but now we can examine it with what we know now, I think it's fair to assume Malone was fighting it out with Booth then as well, maybe the beef started with Malone refusing to even give a chance to a proven vet in Bryant, despite Booth coughing up top dollar for him, using much of the limited assets Booth had at his disposal. it also makes Booth look really bad and Booth wasn't really the first choice, he was an assistant that got promoted because Connelly got a much better offer from the Wolves and the Nuggets didn't wish to stand in his way. Malone made Booth look really incomptent by not playing Bryant at all, now that I think about it haha

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Bryant was having one heck of a season with the Lakers.
He joined the Nuggets and never played.

I remember it well..it was bizarre at the time too but now we can examine it with what we know now, I think it's fair to assume Malone was fighting it out with Booth then as well, maybe the beef started with Malone refusing to even give a chance to a proven vet in Bryant, despite Booth coughing up top dollar for him, using much of the limited assets Booth had at his disposal. it also makes Booth look really bad and Booth wasn't really the first choice, he was an assistant that got promoted because Connelly got a much better offer from the Wolves and the Nuggets didn't wish to stand in his way. Malone made Booth look really incomptent by not playing Bryant at all, now that I think about it haha

In terms of actual moves and underarching strategy, I actually lied Booth.
The real enormous failure has been Dario, even Jackson contributed for the first part of last year.
And, to be honest, I originally liked the signing.

The real issue is that you can't have a strategy totally at odds with your coach. The two must work together to implement it and, if necessary, both will have to compromise from their principles to execute it.
Neither did, they instead turned it into a personal war, they involved other people, they likely contributed breaking the locker room.
And that's why both are gone.

[AdamSSSlither]

give me jeff van gundy as new hc.

[Exp0sed]

Bryant was having one heck of a season with the Lakers.
He joined the Nuggets and never played.

I remember it well..it was bizarre at the time too but now we can examine it with what we know now, I think it's fair to assume Malone was fighting it out with Booth then as well, maybe the beef started with Malone refusing to even give a chance to a proven vet in Bryant, despite Booth coughing up top dollar for him, using much of the limited assets Booth had at his disposal. it also makes Booth look really bad and Booth wasn't really the first choice, he was an assistant that got promoted because Connelly got a much better offer from the Wolves and the Nuggets didn't wish to stand in his way. Malone made Booth look really incomptent by not playing Bryant at all, now that I think about it haha

In terms of actual moves and underarching strategy, I actually lied Booth.
The real enormous failure has been Dario, even Jackson contributed for the first part of last year.
And, to be honest, I originally liked the signing.

The real issue is that you can't have a strategy totally at odds with your coach. The two must work together to implement it and, if necessary, both will have to compromise from their principles to execute it.
Neither did, they instead turned it into a personal war, they involved other people, they likely contributed breaking the locker room.
And that's why both are gone.

I mean..didn't Booth trade Iharte AND two SRPs for frigging Javale Mcgee?

[LeBronSpaghetti]

I’m not sure how anyone can question this now that’s it’s been a few days and more and more leaks keep coming out about what was going on internally

[slicedbread2]

I remember it well..it was bizarre at the time too but now we can examine it with what we know now, I think it's fair to assume Malone was fighting it out with Booth then as well, maybe the beef started with Malone refusing to even give a chance to a proven vet in Bryant, despite Booth coughing up top dollar for him, using much of the limited assets Booth had at his disposal. it also makes Booth look really bad and Booth wasn't really the first choice, he was an assistant that got promoted because Connelly got a much better offer from the Wolves and the Nuggets didn't wish to stand in his way. Malone made Booth look really incomptent by not playing Bryant at all, now that I think about it haha

In terms of actual moves and underarching strategy, I actually lied Booth.
The real enormous failure has been Dario, even Jackson contributed for the first part of last year.
And, to be honest, I originally liked the signing.

The real issue is that you can't have a strategy totally at odds with your coach. The two must work together to implement it and, if necessary, both will have to compromise from their principles to execute it.
Neither did, they instead turned it into a personal war, they involved other people, they likely contributed breaking the locker room.
And that's why both are gone.

I mean..didn't Booth trade Iharte AND two SRPs for frigging Javale Mcgee?

Tim Connelly was responsible for that. Sucks because I-Hart became a great rotation piece after his stops in LAC and NY.

Malone refusing to play Jay Huff was dumb because Memphis claimed him, converted him from a 2-way into a standard deal for 4/10M(5M guaranteed with the last 2 years being team options). He's playing at least 10mins and even though his rebounding numbers are brutal (2rbs/11mins), he can stretch the floor and not be a liability.

[Exp0sed]

In terms of actual moves and underarching strategy, I actually lied Booth.
The real enormous failure has been Dario, even Jackson contributed for the first part of last year.
And, to be honest, I originally liked the signing.

The real issue is that you can't have a strategy totally at odds with your coach. The two must work together to implement it and, if necessary, both will have to compromise from their principles to execute it.
Neither did, they instead turned it into a personal war, they involved other people, they likely contributed breaking the locker room.
And that's why both are gone.

I mean..didn't Booth trade Iharte AND two SRPs for frigging Javale Mcgee?

Tim Connelly was responsible for that. Sucks because I-Hart became a great rotation piece after his stops in LAC and NY.

Malone refusing to play Jay Huff was dumb because Memphis claimed him, converted him from a 2-way into a standard deal for 4/10M(5M guaranteed with the last 2 years being team options). He's playing at least 10mins and even though his rebounding numbers are brutal (2rbs/11mins), he can stretch the floor and not be a liability.

got it, my bad then

[BelgradeNugget]

In terms of actual moves and underarching strategy, I actually lied Booth.
The real enormous failure has been Dario, even Jackson contributed for the first part of last year.
And, to be honest, I originally liked the signing.

The real issue is that you can't have a strategy totally at odds with your coach. The two must work together to implement it and, if necessary, both will have to compromise from their principles to execute it.
Neither did, they instead turned it into a personal war, they involved other people, they likely contributed breaking the locker room.
And that's why both are gone.

I mean..didn't Booth trade Iharte AND two SRPs for frigging Javale Mcgee?

Tim Connelly was responsible for that. Sucks because I-Hart became a great rotation piece after his stops in LAC and NY.

Malone refusing to play Jay Huff was dumb because Memphis claimed him, converted him from a 2-way into a standard deal for 4/10M(5M guaranteed with the last 2 years being team options). He's playing at least 10mins and even though his rebounding numbers are brutal (2rbs/11mins), he can stretch the floor and not be a liability.

Shell we say truth about I-Hart? I-Hart was traded because Malone didn't play him. In 20-21 season Jokic played 72 games, and 34.6 minutes. That leaves 13.4 minutes for backup big. I-Hart played 30 games and 9.1 minutes. That doesn't screem player that has trust of his coach. Despite having + 7.3 net rtg. Not good enough for his coach to play him more. So GM tried do bring competent backup to his coach, I don't think they didn't consult him on that trade and they give assets to trade for McGee...and Malone couldn't make it work with him either. Next up was JaMychal Green... didn't work. Than Nnaji, Jeff Green, Cousins, DJ...didn't work. In fact only backup Cs that worked for Malone was old Millsap (at the end of his stint in Denver, he was starter first) and Plumlee. Plumlee had one + net rating season of 4 in Denver. He was starter for Brooklyn and Portland before Denver and starter for Detroit and Charlotte after. But Nuggets couldn't win his 15 minutes without Jok against other teams benches.

I think problem with Booth-Malone relationship started in the middle of championship season. Malone couldn't make bench work. Booth gives asets to bring him backup PG who was starter for Clipps at the start of the season, Jackson, and backup C Thomas Bryant who averaged 12.1/6.8/0.7 shooting 65%/44%/74% for Lakers, and Malone couldn't make it work. He menages to win championship with what he already had. Great, but wasn't a storie he has no bench? Why they had to make trades? Malone loves vets he got them, right?

People, ask yourselfe - is it posible to build lineups that won't lose its minutes against other teams mixed lineups (non starter lineups) with this players:
Murray, AG, MPJ, Braun, KCP, Jackson, DJ, Brown, Jeff Green, Jeremy Grant, Beasly, Vanderbildt, Plumlee, Monte Morris... we are in this story of "no Jokic minutes" for quite some time. I have never heard before of "no Jordan minutes", "no Duncan minutes", "no LeBron minutes", "no Steph minutes"...

[Exp0sed]

I mean..didn't Booth trade Iharte AND two SRPs for frigging Javale Mcgee?

Tim Connelly was responsible for that. Sucks because I-Hart became a great rotation piece after his stops in LAC and NY.

Malone refusing to play Jay Huff was dumb because Memphis claimed him, converted him from a 2-way into a standard deal for 4/10M(5M guaranteed with the last 2 years being team options). He's playing at least 10mins and even though his rebounding numbers are brutal (2rbs/11mins), he can stretch the floor and not be a liability.

Shell we say truth about I-Hart? I-Hart was traded because Malone didn't play him. In 20-21 season Jokic played 72 games, and 34.6 minutes. That leaves 13.4 minutes for backup big. I-Hart played 30 games and 9.1 minutes. That doesn't screem player that has trust of his coach. Despite having + 7.3 net rtg. Not good enough for his coach to play him more. So GM tried do bring competent backup to his coach, I don't think they didn't consult him on that trade and they give assets to trade for McGee...and Malone couldn't make it work with him either. Next up was JaMychal Green... didn't work. Than Nnaji, Jeff Green, Cousins, DJ...didn't work. In fact only backup Cs that worked for Malone was old Millsap (at the end of his stint in Denver, he was starter first) and Plumlee. Plumlee had one + net rating season of 4 in Denver. He was starter for Brooklyn and Portland before Denver and starter for Detroit and Charlotte after. But Nuggets couldn't win his 15 minutes without Jok against other teams benches.

I think problem with Booth-Malone relationship started in the middle of championship season. Malone couldn't make bench work. Booth gives asets to bring him backup PG who was starter for Clipps at the start of the season, Jackson, and backup C Thomas Bryant who averaged 12.1/6.8/0.7 shooting 65%/44%/74% for Lakers, and Malone couldn't make it work. He menages to win championship with what he already had. Great, but wasn't a storie he has no bench? Why they had to make trades? Malone loves vets he got them, right?

People, ask yourselfe - is it posible to build lineups that won't lose its minutes against other teams mixed lineups (non starter lineups) with this players:
Murray, AG, MPJ, Braun, KCP, Jackson, DJ, Brown, Jeff Green, Jeremy Grant, Beasly, Vanderbildt, Plumlee, Monte Morris... we are in this story of "no Jokic minutes" for quite some time. I have never heard before of "no Jordan minutes", "no Duncan minutes", "no LeBron minutes", "no Steph minutes"...

tell me something, now that we know what we know, meaning that things have gotten so bad Kroenke had to fire them both a week before the playoffs, that means this has been brewing for years. is it possible that stuff that just seemed mind-boggling like Malone playing guys like Zeke and Watson out of position - weren't actually dumb but rather, malicious?

Nnaji is a 4, he absoultely cannot play the 5 in the NBA. he's one of the worst Centers in the league and has been for a couple of years. anyone who watched the Nuggets knew that but Malone played him last season almost strictly at Center. this season because of injuries he got some burn as a 4 and was pretty damn good. more than serviceable that's for sure. NNaji is a Calvin Booth guy, Booth signed him as one of his first moves. is it possible Malone played him as a 5 just to make Booth look bad?

[Chuck Everett]

tell me something, now that we know what we know, meaning that things have gotten so bad Kroenke had to fire them both a week before the playoffs, that means this has been brewing for years. is it possible that stuff that just seemed mind-boggling like Malone playing guys like Zeke and Watson out of position - weren't actually dumb but rather, malicious?

Nnaji is a 4, he absoultely cannot play the 5 in the NBA. he's one of the worst Centers in the league and has been for a couple of years. anyone who watched the Nuggets knew that but Malone played him last season almost strictly at Center. this season because of injuries he got some burn as a 4 and was pretty damn good. more than serviceable that's for sure. NNaji is a Calvin Booth guy, Booth signed him as one of his first moves. is it possible Malone played him as a 5 just to make Booth look bad?

He flat out sabotaged Pickett and Nnaji because the front office wanted them to play. Like I said a long time ago, I didn't understand why people were defending this crap. The fact that he was still playing 5 man bench units and never wanted to mix the bench more with Jokic was very strange.

Kroenke's did what had to be done.

[Exp0sed]

tell me something, now that we know what we know, meaning that things have gotten so bad Kroenke had to fire them both a week before the playoffs, that means this has been brewing for years. is it possible that stuff that just seemed mind-boggling like Malone playing guys like Zeke and Watson out of position - weren't actually dumb but rather, malicious?

Nnaji is a 4, he absoultely cannot play the 5 in the NBA. he's one of the worst Centers in the league and has been for a couple of years. anyone who watched the Nuggets knew that but Malone played him last season almost strictly at Center. this season because of injuries he got some burn as a 4 and was pretty damn good. more than serviceable that's for sure. NNaji is a Calvin Booth guy, Booth signed him as one of his first moves. is it possible Malone played him as a 5 just to make Booth look bad?

He flat out sabotaged Pickett and Nnaji because the front office wanted them to play. Like I said a long time ago, I didn't understand why people were defending this crap. The fact that he was still playing 5 man bench units and never wanted to mix the bench more with Jokic was very strange.

Kroenke's did what had to be done.

I guess so

bush league stuff..
it was just reported that Kroneke wanted to fire them both around the all star break (which would have made more sense) but the Nuggets got on a 8 game winning streak so he kinda had to roll with it at the time. it was also reported it was important for Kroenke to clean house now and not at the end of the season because Jokic was unhappy about the dysfunctionality within the organization and he's due for a extention to his extention in the summer..

so this probably Kroenke basically telling Jokic, I got u big fella don't worry

[BelgradeNugget]

tell me something, now that we know what we know, meaning that things have gotten so bad Kroenke had to fire them both a week before the playoffs, that means this has been brewing for years. is it possible that stuff that just seemed mind-boggling like Malone playing guys like Zeke and Watson out of position - weren't actually dumb but rather, malicious?

Nnaji is a 4, he absoultely cannot play the 5 in the NBA. he's one of the worst Centers in the league and has been for a couple of years. anyone who watched the Nuggets knew that but Malone played him last season almost strictly at Center. this season because of injuries he got some burn as a 4 and was pretty damn good. more than serviceable that's for sure. NNaji is a Calvin Booth guy, Booth signed him as one of his first moves. is it possible Malone played him as a 5 just to make Booth look bad?

He flat out sabotaged Pickett and Nnaji because the front office wanted them to play. Like I said a long time ago, I didn't understand why people were defending this crap. The fact that he was still playing 5 man bench units and never wanted to mix the bench more with Jokic was very strange.

Kroenke's did what had to be done.

I guess so

bush league stuff..
it was just reported that Kroneke wanted to fire them both around the all star break (which would have made more sense) but the Nuggets got on a 8 game winning streak so he kinda had to roll with it at the time. it was also reported it was important for Kroenke to clean house now and not at the end of the season because Jokic was unhappy about the dysfunctionality within the organization and he's due for a extention to his extention in the summer..

so this probably Kroenke basically telling Jokic, I got u big fella don't worry

Ok let's not make this about Nnaji and Pickett. Let me ask you guys to explain to me just one Malones decision. Nuggetd down 3 pts against Pacers, with 43 secs left Malone takes MPJ out of game and brings Westbrook in. Was it dumb or...

Game against Portland the score is tied, Nuggets need one good defensive posession, Westbrook on Simons, Braun and Watson on bench???

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I remember it well..it was bizarre at the time too but now we can examine it with what we know now, I think it's fair to assume Malone was fighting it out with Booth then as well, maybe the beef started with Malone refusing to even give a chance to a proven vet in Bryant, despite Booth coughing up top dollar for him, using much of the limited assets Booth had at his disposal. it also makes Booth look really bad and Booth wasn't really the first choice, he was an assistant that got promoted because Connelly got a much better offer from the Wolves and the Nuggets didn't wish to stand in his way. Malone made Booth look really incomptent by not playing Bryant at all, now that I think about it haha

In terms of actual moves and underarching strategy, I actually lied Booth.
The real enormous failure has been Dario, even Jackson contributed for the first part of last year.
And, to be honest, I originally liked the signing.

The real issue is that you can't have a strategy totally at odds with your coach. The two must work together to implement it and, if necessary, both will have to compromise from their principles to execute it.
Neither did, they instead turned it into a personal war, they involved other people, they likely contributed breaking the locker room.
And that's why both are gone.

I mean..didn't Booth trade Iharte AND two SRPs for frigging Javale Mcgee?

no, it was Connelly.
and Malone was not playing Hartenstein and Malone didn't even play McGee.
The Nuggets do have a history of not playing their in season acquisitions.

[Ssj16]

give me jeff van gundy as new hc.

Hard pass. JVG is an old school guy like Malone. Id take him as an assistant coach but I'd rather invest in a more modern coach.

[Sixers in 4]

Sam Cassell would be my choice then again it was a crime he wasn't hired over JJ. Dude has put the time in is well regarded. Has the players pedigree he deserves his chance