2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers (Series tied 2-2)

[hardenASG13]

Complaining about Jokic in this game seems... weird.

Not-Jokic shot 22/63 (34.9% FG), and that's WITH Jamal Murray shooting 8/15 from the floor, which was pretty good.

It doesn't matter what you do as an individual after that, it's over. You can flail and gnash your teeth about it, but the same stuff was happening to Jordan against Boston and Detroit until his team started stepping up around him. Many of the same things happened to Wilt and Kareem, as well. You need the team firing on all cylinders to beat a good opponent, and most of Denver sucked last night. Legitimately, other than Jokic and Murray, they shot 14/48 (29.2% FG). You can't win like that; it's almost 2/3s of the Nuggets shooting volume. Jokic could have dropped 60 and it wouldn't have mattered... just like MJ versus Boston.

In the meantime, Harden and Zubac tore them apart, and while Kawhi struggled inside the arc, he cranked it from 3 and got to the line reasonably well. Normal Powell was 7/12, Batum and DJJ combined for 8/14, they had support.

Why is this such a hard concept for some people to accept?

Also, the Clippers shot 55% from the field in the first quarter and put 35 on Denver. They were in a hole the rest of the game, especially after LA scored 30 in the 2nd while Denver managed 19 points. Braun, MPJ, AG, Murray and Westbrook combined to shoot 6/23 (26.1% FG) in that quarter. Then they scored 13 in the fourth, against 27 from the Clippers.

C'mon, folks. Give LA its flowers and quit picking on Jokic like there was anything he was going to do about this dumpster fire of a game from the Nuggets.

It’s easier for Jokic detractors to blame him than give any credit to the Clippers. Which is exactly what is happening here.

Nope, you can't hype a guy as being the offensive GOAT all season, saying he's had the best season ever, saying he's the best passer ever (not you 2 individually, but the board in general), while attacking anyone (like me) who questions the things about him that I have based on eye test (described in above posts), then expect him not to be criticized! It's 3 games into the series. He hasn't had a dominant game yet, or even a dominant stretch within a game. If his supporters on here, who dismiss and insult anyone who questions his advanced stats can't handle that, then.....don't be so dismissive and insulting to people who rightfully question it all season (AdVaNcEd StAtS though!)

Lots of pressure on him in game 4! All timers lead in these situations, they don't play their normal game and hope their teammates, who aren't all stars, rasie their game and come through. This is on Jokic.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Best passer ever? Good grief!

[bb22]

In 10 to 15 years we will look back and ask ourselves how it was possible Denver had the clear best player of a generation and only came away with one title. Perhaps just one Finals appearance, too. This is some Barry Sanders type of awfulness.

So much talk in here about Denver failing Jokic. He is massively failing expectations as a 3x MVP in his prime. He's shooting efficiently on the limited shots he takes (gotta expand that shot diet!). He clears the defensive boards well (though not if he has to pursue a rebound that doesn't go to him, the Clippers get all of those). He had a really nice playmaker first quarter tonight, so I guess there's that? He hasn't dominated a single stretch of any game in this series.

Fair to expect more out a guy I've been attacked on here for anytime I question his Top 10 all time great, "GOAT peak" lable given by many on this board. They'll hit you with the BPM ranking × TS% added to his LEBRON score. When countered with statements like they below, they'll call you a hater:

yeah but in a playoff series superstars need to expand out of their normal shot diet, and i don't think he can do that and maintain efficiency

His playmaking comes from standstills at the top of the key (which isn't as effective as dribble penetration collapsing a defense) and is alot of handoffs and pitch backs

His unwillingness/inability to contest shots at the rim isn't a winning formula

his 3 point percentage is due to him almost exclusively shooting standstill open 3s (otherwise he doesn't shoot or his percentages go down.....and he can't create the looks for himself)

His lack of energy and poor body language makes me question him as a leader.

I question his ability to create out of nothing down the stretch of games (we've seen turnovers, deferring to Russell Westbrook, missed FTs, Flopping).......etc.


Well......what are we seeing play out, yet again, vs a quality playoff opponent (I think the Clips lose in 5 or 6 vs OKC, they're decent though)? It seems like those statements, I've made for years now, are largely what we're seeing, again. There's no denying it with stats. Great Triple Doubles (He acts as their only playmaker and leads the league in passes per game, at the expense of dribble penetration in their offense. Look at those apg numbers though)!

Reading this the fingers are being pointed at his supporting cast. However this is a 3x MVP, in his prime, showing poor leadership and underperforming massively with his passive play. Putting up solid stats, not dominating games at all. This is your GOAT peak? I'm not sure how'd anyone with eyes and who cares so much about basketball can keep going along with this.

If he were dominating the series it might be a different conversation. He isn't though, at all, and this is round 1. Harden is supposed to be a washed up choker. Can't dominate vs these guys? I've got no sympathy for that. Maybe Jokic just is NOT him.

This is generally true, but the playoff picture this year is very unique and they ran into a healthy LAC squad that is playing incredible basketball. Nevertheless, Jokic should be the most dominant player in the series (by far). It’s only been a few games, though. He has time to redeem himself.

Watching LeBron all those years when he was dominating (a weaker) Eastern conference, he repeatedly adapted his game and found different ways to pick apart and punish teams on both ends of the floor. His energy and conditioning throughout a series was incredible. Let’s see how Jokic adapts in games 4 and 5.

[tsherkin]

Nope, you can't hype a guy as being the offensive GOAT all season, saying he's had the best season ever, saying he's the best passer ever (not you 2 individually, but the board in general), while attacking anyone (like me) who questions the things about him that I have based on eye test (described in above posts), then expect him not to be criticized! It's 3 games into the series. He hasn't had a dominant game yet, or even a dominant stretch within a game. If his supporters on here, who dismiss and insult anyone who questions his advanced stats can't handle that, then.....don't be so dismissive and insulting to people who rightfully question it all season (AdVaNcEd StAtS though!)

Lots of pressure on him in game 4! All timers lead in these situations, they don't play their normal game and hope their teammates, who aren't all stars, rasie their game and come through. This is on Jokic.

I suspect this perspective is coming from equating scoring to offensive performance. But we know that railing against a good team while your teammates suck ass doesn't really win a series. We've seen it before with titanic scorers many times over, so this isn't really a valid screed against Jokic.

[hardenASG13]

You would admit though it’s easier for a team to gameplan for the one guy that can beat you when his teammates aren’t consistent or have much more flaws right? And again for the umpteenth time how many guys has Jokic played with who’ve made All-NBA or even made an all-star team while playing with him? When talking about all time great players specifically top 10, that matters because most of those greats have done so hence the reason that not only some of them won multiple titles but at the least made multiple Finals appearances.

What gameplan are you referring to exactly? Jokic is doing what he normally does, it just....hasn't been impactful. He hasn't dominated a single game yet, or even a significant stretch of one. He stands under the rim on defense and gobbles up rebounds that come to him, or doesn't box out on the perimeter and gets into the defensive rebounding fray (like Westbrook was criticized for years for doing), cool.
He gets a bunch of assists as their whole passing game runs through him at the top of the key. Great. They don't have much dribble penetration as a result, and they don't collapse the defense with this style well. His playmaking hasn't been problematic for LA.
He shoots high efficiency, on the limited variety of shots that he takes. Again, awesome. LA can live with that. Going off script and scorching LA is what his team clearly needs though. Hasn't even attempted to do that.
His stats are awesome. But this pattern of them not mattering vs good teams is becoming hard to ignore. This was true in the regular season as well.

Yes he hasn't played with all stars. And while other great players have made their teammates all stars, because their teams were so good, Jokic hasn't done that.

Wait so you're saying Shaq made Kobe into an all-star? Jordan made Pippen into an all-star? Isaiah made Dumars or Hakeem made Drexler? Get where I'm going with this?

If I were a Clippers fan I would be upset with your takes because you're essentially not giving them or their coaching staff any credit. You're essentially chalking it up to if "Jokic is so great" then how good the Clippers are shouldnt matter which imo is an absurd take but thats just me. It reminds me of how people would get on Lebron at times early on, or Jordan or Kobe or even Harden like basketball isnt still a 5 on 5 game.

No I'm more so thinking of guys like Mo Williams, Big Z and Kevin love with LeBron. Jalen Williams this year with SGA. Jrue Holiday and Khris Middleton with Giannis. Draymond with Steph. Guys like that. What all stars are you replacing Murray with that would've changed things to this point, outside of the best players in the league? Look what adding all star Damian Lillard has done for Milwaukee. This isn't an automatic fix. Jokic acting as the primary playmaker would change the playstyle of many of the elite guards in the league if they were his teammate.

This isn't early on for Jokic though. He's 30 and at his peak. The Clippers have been good, not great. They lack front court depth, their role players played so so in Denver. Kris Dunn, Nico Batum, Bogi, Jones Jr aren't some wrecking crew. Powell had a good game 3. Zubac is good. They've looked pretty good so far, no question. Not good enough to where a guy having the GOAT peak shouldn't be dominating against them though. They have 1 big guy (zubac) in their entire rotation. Jokic should be doing major work, in which case I'd be silent if they were losing. He isn't though.

[G R E Y]

Simmons is living the dream.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

[hardenASG13]

Nope, you can't hype a guy as being the offensive GOAT all season, saying he's had the best season ever, saying he's the best passer ever (not you 2 individually, but the board in general), while attacking anyone (like me) who questions the things about him that I have based on eye test (described in above posts), then expect him not to be criticized! It's 3 games into the series. He hasn't had a dominant game yet, or even a dominant stretch within a game. If his supporters on here, who dismiss and insult anyone who questions his advanced stats can't handle that, then.....don't be so dismissive and insulting to people who rightfully question it all season (AdVaNcEd StAtS though!)

Lots of pressure on him in game 4! All timers lead in these situations, they don't play their normal game and hope their teammates, who aren't all stars, rasie their game and come through. This is on Jokic.

I suspect this perspective is coming from equating scoring to offensive performance. But we know that railing against a good team while your teammates suck ass doesn't really win a series. We've seen it before with titanic scorers many times over, so this isn't really a valid screed against Jokic.

Nah, he's not overwhelming the Clippers in any aspect. His playmaking hasn't been problematic either, and imo comes at the expense of them collapsing the defense more as they get minimal dribble penetration due to relying on Jokic to crate their passing turned halfway away from the basket at the top. It leads to alot of assists for him, but they aren't hard to guard. That won't work against good teams (as is developing into quite the pattern for Jokic led teams). His defense at the center position is a problem, no stats can change that, just watch the games. He doesn't overpower on the offensive boards, or rebound outside his area well on the defensive glass. He stands under the basket there and gobbles up anything that comes near him. Great for his numbers and the advanced systems. But there is more to basketball than stats!

And yeah, some big scoring games would be nice. He's not shooting enough, and for 3x MVP, if his teammates are struggling, thats what you're supposed to deliver. If a superstar goes on a scoring binge (which he's clearly capable of), teammates confidence generally increases and they play better too. But that hasnt happened yet. Playing that efficient, shoot only good shots game, while being their only passer in that system is great for his stats. But isn't standing out at all as far as impact. There are such things as empty stats, and Jokic isn't immune from that lable if he keeps losing vs good teams. He gets good stats in his sleep, awesome. You're telling me he's playing like an all time great though?

For the record, as someone without a favorite team, I want to see Denver win this series and play OKC, SGA vs Jokic. I'm waiting to see the greatness so many people have posted advanced stats arguments for with Jokic! I like seeing greatness. I just don't with him, and never really have.

[PeteyPablo]

What gameplan are you referring to exactly? Jokic is doing what he normally does, it just....hasn't been impactful. He hasn't dominated a single game yet, or even a significant stretch of one. He stands under the rim on defense and gobbles up rebounds that come to him, or doesn't box out on the perimeter and gets into the defensive rebounding fray (like Westbrook was criticized for years for doing), cool.
He gets a bunch of assists as their whole passing game runs through him at the top of the key. Great. They don't have much dribble penetration as a result, and they don't collapse the defense with this style well. His playmaking hasn't been problematic for LA.
He shoots high efficiency, on the limited variety of shots that he takes. Again, awesome. LA can live with that. Going off script and scorching LA is what his team clearly needs though. Hasn't even attempted to do that.
His stats are awesome. But this pattern of them not mattering vs good teams is becoming hard to ignore. This was true in the regular season as well.

Yes he hasn't played with all stars. And while other great players have made their teammates all stars, because their teams were so good, Jokic hasn't done that.

Wait so you're saying Shaq made Kobe into an all-star? Jordan made Pippen into an all-star? Isaiah made Dumars or Hakeem made Drexler? Get where I'm going with this?

If I were a Clippers fan I would be upset with your takes because you're essentially not giving them or their coaching staff any credit. You're essentially chalking it up to if "Jokic is so great" then how good the Clippers are shouldnt matter which imo is an absurd take but thats just me. It reminds me of how people would get on Lebron at times early on, or Jordan or Kobe or even Harden like basketball isnt still a 5 on 5 game.

No I'm more so thinking of guys like Mo Williams, Big Z and Kevin love with LeBron. Jalen Williams this year with SGA. Jrue Holiday and Khris Middleton with Giannis. Draymond with Steph. Guys like that. What all stars are you replacing Murray with that would've changed things to this point, outside of the best players in the league? Look what adding all star Damian Lillard has done for Milwaukee. This isn't an automatic fix. Jokic acting as the primary playmaker would change the playstyle of many of the elite guards in the league if they were his teammate.

This isn't early on for Jokic though. He's 30 and at his peak. The Clippers have been good, not great. They lack front court depth, their role players played so so in Denver. Kris Dunn, Nico Batum, Bogi, Jones Jr aren't some wrecking crew. Powell had a good game 3. Zubac is good. They've looked pretty good so far, no question. Not good enough to where a guy having the GOAT peak shouldn't be dominating against them though. They have 1 big guy (zubac) in their entire rotation. Jokic should be doing major work, in which case I'd be silent if they were losing. He isn't though.

There are some stats out there showing how great Zubac is at defending the rim and overall on defense. He is an anchor for the Clippers defense.

Clippers had 3rd best defensive rating in NBA this season. As of March 1st , they went 19-4 to finish this season. They had the best offense and defense in that span.

They lost to the Lakers by 6 points on 3/2
They lost to the Suns by 2 points on 3/4
They lost to the Thunder by 2 points on 3/23 ( SGA was flopping , whining , grabbing, pulling , hacking all game )
They lost to the Cavs by 5 points on the road on 3/30

[ejftw]

Simmons is living the dream.

Honestly, he's exceeded my expectations for him when he signed. I expected him to a solid spot handler that would provide some okay effort on defense.

Just wish Lue would avoid having any minutes on the court without Harden or Ben. The squad always needs a ball handler on the floor, and can't have Norm, Bogi or Kawhi be the primary at any point

[tsherkin]

Nah, he's not overwhelming the Clippers in any aspect.

He's literally the reason they're ever in the game with the Clips, man.

And yeah, some big scoring games would be nice. He's not shooting enough,

This escapes the point I've been making. Him shooting more won't change the situation. If your teammates are screwing the pooch on a third of your team's total shooting volume, you're gonna lose against a good team regardless of individual performance. That is just basic arithmetic, man. You can't just "deliver" over top that level of failure. And again, we have seen that story unfold for decade after decade.

It's frustrating that it's 2025 and people are still trying the "HURRRR JUST SHOOT MORE" argument. We KNOW that doesn't work in this context. We learned it from Wilt and MJ well enough. Your team needs to come through. This is why when Dirk was blowing goats in first halves in the 2011 playoffs, his team coming through is what helped even position them for him to redeem himself in the second half. And their supporting play is what made a title run possible when he didn't have an All-NBA-caliber running mate. Denver is also facing two of the best offensive perimeter guys of the past 20 years on the same team, which is causing them huge issues. This needs to track when examining game outcomes...

[Woodsanity]

What gameplan are you referring to exactly? Jokic is doing what he normally does, it just....hasn't been impactful. He hasn't dominated a single game yet, or even a significant stretch of one. He stands under the rim on defense and gobbles up rebounds that come to him, or doesn't box out on the perimeter and gets into the defensive rebounding fray (like Westbrook was criticized for years for doing), cool.
He gets a bunch of assists as their whole passing game runs through him at the top of the key. Great. They don't have much dribble penetration as a result, and they don't collapse the defense with this style well. His playmaking hasn't been problematic for LA.
He shoots high efficiency, on the limited variety of shots that he takes. Again, awesome. LA can live with that. Going off script and scorching LA is what his team clearly needs though. Hasn't even attempted to do that.
His stats are awesome. But this pattern of them not mattering vs good teams is becoming hard to ignore. This was true in the regular season as well.

Yes he hasn't played with all stars. And while other great players have made their teammates all stars, because their teams were so good, Jokic hasn't done that.

Wait so you're saying Shaq made Kobe into an all-star? Jordan made Pippen into an all-star? Isaiah made Dumars or Hakeem made Drexler? Get where I'm going with this?

If I were a Clippers fan I would be upset with your takes because you're essentially not giving them or their coaching staff any credit. You're essentially chalking it up to if "Jokic is so great" then how good the Clippers are shouldnt matter which imo is an absurd take but thats just me. It reminds me of how people would get on Lebron at times early on, or Jordan or Kobe or even Harden like basketball isnt still a 5 on 5 game.

No I'm more so thinking of guys like Mo Williams, Big Z and Kevin love with LeBron. Jalen Williams this year with SGA. Jrue Holiday and Khris Middleton with Giannis. Draymond with Steph. Guys like that. What all stars are you replacing Murray with that would've changed things to this point, outside of the best players in the league? Look what adding all star Damian Lillard has done for Milwaukee. This isn't an automatic fix. Jokic acting as the primary playmaker would change the playstyle of many of the elite guards in the league if they were his teammate.

This isn't early on for Jokic though. He's 30 and at his peak. The Clippers have been good, not great. They lack front court depth, their role players played so so in Denver. Kris Dunn, Nico Batum, Bogi, Jones Jr aren't some wrecking crew. Powell had a good game 3. Zubac is good. They've looked pretty good so far, no question. Not good enough to where a guy having the GOAT peak shouldn't be dominating against them though. They have 1 big guy (zubac) in their entire rotation. Jokic should be doing major work, in which case I'd be silent if they were losing. He isn't though.

The Nuggets roster is a complete cesspool.

When your 4th best player is an old and washed Westbrook you have very very big problems. They devoted half of their salary to two injury prone non all stars.

These are the playoff numbers for the Nuggets:

Murray PER: 15.5
Aaron Gordon PER: 13.6
RW PER: 12.1
MPJ PER: 8.8

And it gets worse.

The only plus is that surely these Nuggets bum role players can't play any worse than they are now right?

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

Interesting stats for those that said Jokic is being doubled and swarmed all game. I imagine he’s usually doubled a lot more than 10-15%? Or is the error in what is considered a double team maybe?

[Ruma85]

Read on Twitter

Interesting stats for those that said Jokic is being doubled and swarmed all game. I imagine he’s usually doubled a lot more than 10-15%? Or is the error in what is considered a double team maybe?

He's doubled at the right time, jvg deserves major props.

[Infinite Llamas]

Read on Twitter

Interesting stats for those that said Jokic is being doubled and swarmed all game. I imagine he’s usually doubled a lot more than 10-15%? Or is the error in what is considered a double team maybe?

They’re very intentionally switching their coverages on him by design. Jokic is a guy who usually figures things out but LAC defense is constantly keeping him on his toes and changing things even when they are working. It’s the closest you can get to outsmarting him.

[hardenASG13]

Nah, he's not overwhelming the Clippers in any aspect.

He's literally the reason they're ever in the game with the Clips, man.

And yeah, some big scoring games would be nice. He's not shooting enough,

This escapes the point I've been making. Him shooting more won't change the situation. If your teammates are screwing the pooch on a third of your team's total shooting volume, you're gonna lose against a good team regardless of individual performance. That is just basic arithmetic, man. You can't just "deliver" over top that level of failure. And again, we have seen that story unfold for decade after decade.

It's frustrating that it's 2025 and people are still trying the "HURRRR JUST SHOOT MORE" argument. We KNOW that doesn't work in this context. We learned it from Wilt and MJ well enough. Your team needs to come through. This is why when Dirk was blowing goats in first halves in the 2011 playoffs, his team coming through is what helped even position them for him to redeem himself in the second half. And their supporting play is what made a title run possible when he didn't have an All-NBA-caliber running mate. Denver is also facing two of the best offensive perimeter guys of the past 20 years on the same team, which is causing them huge issues. This needs to track when examining game outcomes...

And he should be the reason! He's a 3x MVP in his peak. This is a first round series against an equal team. Their entire offense runs through him, with limited playmaking opportunities for others and minimal dribble penetration to put the defense in rotation. Thats not going to work in a playoff series vs an equal team.

Also, please. You think he's shooting enough? You're standing by that, huh? What if, he started shooting more and making some off script, tough shots. To the point it became problematic for the Clippers defense. Wouldn't they have to adjust things? Do you think that'd make things easier for his teammates to play better or harder? Do you think when a superstar is scorching the other team it helps or hurts his teammates confidence and energy? HURRR. Jordan's team struggles were against the 80s Celtics and bad boy pistons. This is a first round series against a team with a thin front court, who Denver had a better season then, and has been led by a semi declined James Harden, who this board brands as a loser and choker for not beating the mini dynasty warriors.

[Ruma85]

Nah, he's not overwhelming the Clippers in any aspect.

He's literally the reason they're ever in the game with the Clips, man.

And yeah, some big scoring games would be nice. He's not shooting enough,

This escapes the point I've been making. Him shooting more won't change the situation. If your teammates are screwing the pooch on a third of your team's total shooting volume, you're gonna lose against a good team regardless of individual performance. That is just basic arithmetic, man. You can't just "deliver" over top that level of failure. And again, we have seen that story unfold for decade after decade.

It's frustrating that it's 2025 and people are still trying the "HURRRR JUST SHOOT MORE" argument. We KNOW that doesn't work in this context. We learned it from Wilt and MJ well enough. Your team needs to come through. This is why when Dirk was blowing goats in first halves in the 2011 playoffs, his team coming through is what helped even position them for him to redeem himself in the second half. And their supporting play is what made a title run possible when he didn't have an All-NBA-caliber running mate. Denver is also facing two of the best offensive perimeter guys of the past 20 years on the same team, which is causing them huge issues. This needs to track when examining game outcomes...

And he should be the reason! He's a 3x MVP in his peak. This is a first round series against an equal team. Their entire offense runs through him, with limited playmaking opportunities for others and minimal dribble penetration to put the defense in rotation. Thats not going to work in a playoff series vs an equal team.

Also, please. You think he's shooting enough? You're standing by that, huh? What if, he started shooting more and making some off script, tough shots. To the point it became problematic for the Clippers defense. Wouldn't they have to adjust things? Do you think that'd make things easier for his teammates to play better or harder? Do you think when a superstar is scorching the other team it helps or hurts his teammates confidence and energy? HURRR. Jordan's team struggles were against the 80s Celtics and bad boy pistons. This is a first round series against a team with a thin front court, who Denver had a better season then, and has been led by a semi declined James Harden, who this board brands as a loser and choker for not beating the mini dynasty warriors.

Why would the defence change? Clippers are more than happy for Jokic to keep shooting.

[madmaxmedia]

The Clips are feeling pretty good right now. They managed to dodge a bullet by letting PG-13 go. I have major concerns about Kawhi's quad, but man when that dude plays, he's truly the embodiment of ole reliable. Harden doesn't have to score much and can just be a playmaker while Zubac has really shined in controlling Jokic (you ain't stopping greatness from doing what they do) while scoring at will. That Harden/Zubac PNR has been fabulous. Kris Dunn is an absolute pest on defense and Norm Powell (he'll always be a fan favourite in Toronto) has done amazing. Getting Nic Batum and DJJ to compliment Kawhi on the wings and minimize the load has been a real steal of a deal.

If Kawhi can stay healthy and lead the Clippers to a ring with Harden, it'll truly be impressive and I'd be really happy for longtime suffering Clippers fans, in particular Clipper Darrell.

This is a really good summary of our year. PG was visibly starting to fall off before leaving, but Kawhi has largely been written off for health reasons. So for him now to be playing pretty elite basketball (in the playoffs!!) has been sort of a fever dream for Clipper fans. And Harden not tiring out late in the year but instead significantly improving his shooting splits was surprise #2. All in all, I'd say he's the most important player on the team.

Zu took a big step forward in minutes and production this year. Dunn, Nico, DJJ have all been great for us in their respective roles. We also have a problem not developing younger players, but I don't think our current playoff rotation can be criticized.

Two wild cards for us are Norm and Bogdan. Norm was incredible much of the year and really helped carry the team without Kawhi, then got hurt and has not regained the same consistency/efficiency as before (dude shot over 50% FG most of the year as a SG/SF.) He won't get as many scoring opportunities going forward, just needs to get his feel back and knock down shots like he's capable of. Bogdan bounced back strong after we traded for him, but has been a nonfactor in the first 3 games. The fans do like him though and I expect him to play well in some home games.

[hardenASG13]

He's literally the reason they're ever in the game with the Clips, man.




This escapes the point I've been making. Him shooting more won't change the situation. If your teammates are screwing the pooch on a third of your team's total shooting volume, you're gonna lose against a good team regardless of individual performance. That is just basic arithmetic, man. You can't just "deliver" over top that level of failure. And again, we have seen that story unfold for decade after decade.

It's frustrating that it's 2025 and people are still trying the "HURRRR JUST SHOOT MORE" argument. We KNOW that doesn't work in this context. We learned it from Wilt and MJ well enough. Your team needs to come through. This is why when Dirk was blowing goats in first halves in the 2011 playoffs, his team coming through is what helped even position them for him to redeem himself in the second half. And their supporting play is what made a title run possible when he didn't have an All-NBA-caliber running mate. Denver is also facing two of the best offensive perimeter guys of the past 20 years on the same team, which is causing them huge issues. This needs to track when examining game outcomes...

And he should be the reason! He's a 3x MVP in his peak. This is a first round series against an equal team. Their entire offense runs through him, with limited playmaking opportunities for others and minimal dribble penetration to put the defense in rotation. Thats not going to work in a playoff series vs an equal team.

Also, please. You think he's shooting enough? You're standing by that, huh? What if, he started shooting more and making some off script, tough shots. To the point it became problematic for the Clippers defense. Wouldn't they have to adjust things? Do you think that'd make things easier for his teammates to play better or harder? Do you think when a superstar is scorching the other team it helps or hurts his teammates confidence and energy? HURRR. Jordan's team struggles were against the 80s Celtics and bad boy pistons. This is a first round series against a team with a thin front court, who Denver had a better season then, and has been led by a semi declined James Harden, who this board brands as a loser and choker for not beating the mini dynasty warriors.

Why would the defence change? Clippers are more than happy for Jokic to keep shooting.

I'd argue the opposite, they're happy with him to continue passing to his teammates. They can live with his 10apg. Nobody else on Denver gets much of an opportunity create plays with their playstyle through Jokic at the top of key. Also how do you know that. If Jokic starts to go off scoring, you don't think the Clippers would adjust their defense? He hasn't attempted to do that, so I'm not sure how'd you know it? They're going to have to change something though.

[Ruma85]

And he should be the reason! He's a 3x MVP in his peak. This is a first round series against an equal team. Their entire offense runs through him, with limited playmaking opportunities for others and minimal dribble penetration to put the defense in rotation. Thats not going to work in a playoff series vs an equal team.

Also, please. You think he's shooting enough? You're standing by that, huh? What if, he started shooting more and making some off script, tough shots. To the point it became problematic for the Clippers defense. Wouldn't they have to adjust things? Do you think that'd make things easier for his teammates to play better or harder? Do you think when a superstar is scorching the other team it helps or hurts his teammates confidence and energy? HURRR. Jordan's team struggles were against the 80s Celtics and bad boy pistons. This is a first round series against a team with a thin front court, who Denver had a better season then, and has been led by a semi declined James Harden, who this board brands as a loser and choker for not beating the mini dynasty warriors.

Why would the defence change? Clippers are more than happy for Jokic to keep shooting.

I'd argue the opposite, they're happy with him to continue passing to his teammates. They can live with his 10apg. Nobody else on Denver gets much of an opportunity create plays with their playstyle through Jokic at the top of key. Also how do you know that. If Jokic starts to go off scoring, you don't think the Clippers would adjust their defense? He hasn't attempted to do that, so I'm not sure how'd you know it? They're going to have to change something though.

Because it doesn't matter in the scheme of it all, the key for the nuggets cast is to step up more than for Jokic to keep shooting.