If Oklahoma City potentially landed Dwight Howard..

[fallacy]

Fallacy, losing Harden is fine because of the cap space you're gaining.

How would we be gaining cap? The trade would have to be even money wise and the terrible contract of arenas that we would have to take on is for 4 more years. Not to mention that Howard would have to be signed to a new max deal

[Sache]

That's a little too much to give up, even for Howard. Take out Harden and I would probably do it as an OKC fan.

OKC doesn't need to gut it's team to pick up a player it doesn't need.

Westbrook + Harden + Perk + Collison + 2 1sts

That is way too much for a player you really don't need, OKC's team would be gutted and we'd have to take back either Arenas' or Hedo's god-awful contract.

No thanks

Didn't see the two 1st...

[We da Pressed]

Fallacy, losing Harden is fine because of the cap space you're gaining.

How would we be gaining cap? The trade would have to be even money wise and the terrible contract of arenas that we would have to take on is for 4 more years. Not to mention that Howard would have to be signed to a new max deal

Collison+Westbrook+Perkins+Harden+2 1sts for Dwight Howard works perfectly if you're talking next season when Collison's contract goes back down to 3 million. It's 18 million to 16 million.

[fallacy]

Fallacy, losing Harden is fine because of the cap space you're gaining.

How would we be gaining cap? The trade would have to be even money wise and the terrible contract of arenas that we would have to take on is for 4 more years. Not to mention that Howard would have to be signed to a new max deal

Collison+Westbrook+Perkins+Harden+2 1sts for Dwight Howard works perfectly if you're talking next season when Collison's contract goes back down to 3 million. It's 18 million to 16 million.

But again, we're not gaining any capspace. We would have the exact same payroll.

[We da Pressed]

You're dumping Harden who is 5 million~.

Otherwise you're going to be trading 12-13 million for 16 million and taking on more salary. Plus OKC isn't getting Dwight without including Harden or Ibaka & Ibaka is just about untouchable IMO.

I know you love Harden, but here is essentially what you're doing

Harden
Perkins
Collison
Westbrook
2 1sts

for

Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
and another 6-8~ million SG

[KB89]

Just because Oklahoma City has built a team with a ton of talent doesn't mean that they should have to drastically overpay to create a big three of their own. The amount of talent OKC has that they can afford to give up while sustaining a good team around Dwight, Durant, and a great free agent has nothing to do with what an actual deal would look like. The Magic getting Westbrook alone would be more then any other deal that any other team has gotten in a trade of this nature recently. We're talking about trading a guy who is making it known he wants out (hypothetically speaking of course). Once that happens, your value drops. Look at Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, Pau Gasol, Shaquille O'Neal (Lakers and Heat trade I mean), etc. who were all in similar situations yet didn't command near as much value as you're asking. Could the Thunder afford to give up Westbrook, Harden, Perkins, Ibaka, and picks for Dwight while remaining a good team? Sure. Does that mean that they have to? History points towards no.

Like I said before, I doubt Howard even leaves Orlando, but if the Thunder want Howard, they will have to give up a ton for him and IMO if they do go after Howard, they are probably thinking big 3 of there own so they will unload contracts and 1st rounders for Howard/fillers, then go out and pick up Paul or Williams.

This makes more sense than the other garbage trade scenarios I have seen, aka, Mr. Injury and Shannon Brown for Howard, LOL!

Also your trade scenarios don't bold well for your argument. Utah got a lot of young talent, 1st round picks and a top 5 pick for Williams. The Nuggets got a lot of young talent, 1st round picks for Melo. Shaq was aging and nearing the end when he got traded to the Heat so that was a different scenario. Gasol to LA was an inside job, West's last gift to his Lakers.

The only bad scenarios in deals like these for the losing team (besides losing the player themselves) is when they only get a pick/TPE back because the player was going to sign straight up with the other team and the only reason they did a sign and trade was to get more money.

I disagree with your assessment on the other trades like this one, which is my key argument. So it appears as if we’re at a stand off. But, I’ll attempt to explain why the trade you’re pushing for is not like the ones I listed.

Carmelo Anthony (and Chauncey Billups, a good player in his own right, and much more then anything Orlando would package with Dwight) for Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, and picks. Where is the player of Westbrook’s caliber? All four are young players, but nobody is even close to Westbrook’s caliber in terms of current play, or potential. Maybe I’m too high on Ibaka, but I would rather have Ibaka over anyone in this deal that the Knicks gave up. Ibaka is what makes your demands too high in my opinion, and if he’s more valuable then anyone that the Knicks gave up for Carmelo, I don’t see how you think Dwight is going to bring in the value you expect him to. Did the trade work out well for the Nuggets? Yes, but I wouldn’t confuse that with them getting close to the value you’re asking for. This trade allowed Denver to put behind the drama surrounding their team, play a more team oriented style of play, have one of the deepest teams in the league, and made it hard for teams to focus on who to stop on a nightly basis when they had so many players capable of going off. However, Chandler, Felton, Gallinari, and Mozgov are no where near the quality of Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden, and Perkins. Not even close in my mind.

Deron Williams for Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, and picks. Once again, not even comparable. Thus far it doesn’t appear that Favors is going to live up to the third overall pick status, but it’s obviously too soon to write him off. But, I’ll give you one third overall pick who hasn’t exactly shined for another one in Harden vs. Favors, and in comparison I don’t think either really stands out. Harden has looked better, but Favors hasn’t been given the same amount of time or opportunities. Devin Harris? A solid player, who is already 28, and isn’t someone you’d build a team around. He’s not even in the same league as Westbrook. Oh yeah, then throw in that you want Ibaka, Perkins, and for OKC to take on a hefty contract. So how this trade is comparable is beyond me, when Harden is greater then or equal to Favors, Westbrook blows Harris away, and then you’re adding in Ibaka, Perkins, and damaging OKC’s salary.

You can try to spread the ridiculous “Gasol to LA was an inside job, West's last gift to his Lakers” tired routine, but it just has no legs. Gasol was traded to the Lakers 10 months after West had retired from the Grizzlies, and 8 months into Chris Wallace’s reign as GM for the Grizzlies. I know it’s fun to push conspiracy theories, but not ones that facts just do not support at all. Now, looking at this trade: Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Marc Gasol, and picks. I don’t even see the need to compare this with what you’re asking for with Dwight. The two are really different scenarios, which has nothing to do with it being a gift, and everything to do with it simply being a salary dump while picking up young prospects and picks.

So I disagree, the trades I listed were good examples, and point towards Dwight not commanding anywhere near the value you’re asking.

[fallacy]

You're dumping Harden who is 5 million~.

Otherwise you're going to be trading 12-13 million for 16 million and taking on more salary. Plus OKC isn't getting Dwight without including Harden or Ibaka & Ibaka is just about untouchable IMO.

I know you love Harden, but here is essentially what you're doing

Harden
Perkins
Collison
Westbrook
2 1sts

for

Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
and another 6-8~ million SG

I know what you're trying to say but we can't make a trade with Orlando unless we get back the exact same amount of money that we trade out. The only way that we would gain any capspace is if we were to take on an expiring contract, which we aren't. Unless I'm just not following your train of thought, I don't know how you're figuring that we get back less money than we give away

[MitchSlapped]

Am I the only person who thinks it's foolish to trade Westbrook at all? I know it's Dwight but if I'm OKC I would NEVER trade Westbrook, not for anything. Idk someone try to talk sense into me.

[Chosen01]

Am I the only person who thinks it's foolish to trade Westbrook at all? I know it's Dwight but if I'm OKC I would NEVER trade Westbrook, not for anything. Idk someone try to talk sense into me.

[DaRealHibachi]

Am I the only person who thinks it's foolish to trade Westbrook at all? I know it's Dwight but if I'm OKC I would NEVER trade Westbrook, not for anything. Idk someone try to talk sense into me.

Not sure if serious...

[BossHoggin]

Magic fans need to wake up before reality hits. You are getting less than you want for Howard.

[LascelleL]

Lol Magic fans think they can dictate what they get for Dwight....

[MitchSlapped]

Am I the only person who thinks it's foolish to trade Westbrook at all? I know it's Dwight but if I'm OKC I would NEVER trade Westbrook, not for anything. Idk someone try to talk sense into me.

Not sure if serious...

If the Thunder backcourt was really weak then I'd consider it, that is all. At this point I don't think Oklahoma needs to sacrifice one of the best point guards in the league when they already have one of the best defensive frontcourts.

[Darain]

^^ The plan is to get Chris Paul / Deron Williams

But Durant+Howard is over the top anyway

[Weezy21]

For Perkins+Harden+Westbrook+Collison+2 1sts

They would have the following players on the books

Sefalosha 3.6 million
Durant 15.0 million
Ibaka 2.25 million

Add in Dwight for around 16 million

OKC would have a front court of

Durant
Ibaka
Howard

with 22-24 million in cap space assuming the cap is around 58-60 million still. Why the hell wouldn't you do this if Orlando would accept? They could give Dwight the max through the S&T and give Chris Paul an outright max contract.

CP3
x
Durant
Ibaka
Howard

this is pure genius...im a bobcats fan, but thunder are my 2nd favorite team...this would be awesome! And theres no way in hell the magic could make the thunder take turk or arenas! magic would be getting 3 great starters and 2 first rounders....thats easily the best they could get

[te887848]

Wait, there are still people who honestly believe there's a slight possibility of Howard staying?

A generational talent who got bounced in the first round by a 44 win team because he doesn't have one above average teammate is going to stay? Really? No player cares about the fans, nor should they. Some act as if Howard (or any superstar player) has a personal relationship with all of the tens of thousands of people who choose to watch him put a ball through a hoop. Sorry, but that isn't the case.

Howard is gone. To where nobody has a clue, but it's not gonna be in Orlando.

[AdamTheGreek]

First legitimately possible trade proposal I've seen relating to Dwight.

[DinosaurCow]

Man, I love the idea of Durant, Dwight, and CP3, but I would really hate to see the core of OKC break up. As an OKC fan, they feel like a really young team that is growing with the community and everyone gets to see all of the players reaching their potential (durant, westbrook, ibaka, harden) and everyone loved perkins coming over and being the 'enforcer'. I believe Collison is a fan favorite, too.

If the Thunder have to get rid of so many players that feel core to this Thunder group, it would make the team feel so much different than what the fans grew to love, just like the Knicks. And I don't think OKC fans have the same 'get better or get out' mentality as NY fans. Not saying all NYK fans do, and plenty of NYK fans were upset at the 'melo trade.

/endemotionalrant

That said, if Durant, Dwight, and CP3 do team up, I would still be happy.

edit: okay not really like the Knicks, but people were skeptical cause NYK had to ship off so many role players for 'melo and billups.

[Beebeard]

First legitimately possible trade proposal I've seen relating to Dwight.

The problem is that the trade value of Westbrook, Perkins, and the other elements in the package will inevitably decline as the post-season wears on and OKC is pitted against more formidable teams.

And, of course, that Orlando will want salary cap relief, and not just to move their prized big man. Expect the terrible Hedo or Arenas contracts to come into play, and for OKC's cap flexibility to suffer for at least two subsequent seasons as a result.

[jmcfaul13]

I don't think they should trade Harden at all. Westbrook+Perk+picks should be more than enough to get the job done. Orlando has no leverage in this situation, as it's becoming more and more likely that Dwight walks, especially after what we've seen with the Heat situation. They're not going to get a better deal than that. Harden's value on OKC will be so much higher with Westbrook gone. Harden gets very little touches right now, and is relegated to mostly a spot up shooter yet he stil manages to be very effective. If you trade Westbrook, put Harden in the starting line up with 35+ minutes a game, he will produce 20/5/5 numbers, with a steal or two to boot. Honestly, you have so many options and so much balance with that team. Pick and rolls with Harden and Durant/Dwight. Iso Durant. Post up Howard occasionally. Not to mention every miss is being jammed back by Ibaka and Howard. And that's just talking about offense. That would be one of the best defensive teams in the league, maybe of all time. The best shot blocking frontcourt ever? Wow, that could be scary and seems very possible. With Harden still being on his rookie contract, they might still be able to make a move or two as well. Though even plugging someone in there like Kirk Hinrich at PG would be fine too.