Superstars cant win alone, so they need to join forces?

[Raps in 4]

Let's say you're 25 and you're working at a small marketing firm in New Orleans, Cleveland and Orlando. You get payed fairly but work is stressing.

Now let's say a bigger, more affluent marketing firm in LA, Miami, New York want your services. You'll be taking a miniscule pay cut but work is more rewarding and you get all the perks of being a single guy living in Miami/New York/LA.

Of course you're taking option 2. Fact of the matter is management in Cleveland, Orlando and New Orleans didn't take advantage of 3 generational players youth. Why waste your 20's in a city you don't want to live in for management who won't help you succeed? WHY?

Kevin Durant is going to be a Thunder for a very long time because they built their team the right way. Got lucky a few times and capitilazed. It's not because he's a higher character guy or the anti-LeBron.

People need to stop comparing menial office jobs to the NBA. The two have nothing in common.

An office worker may go to a bigger company because there is better job security and more advancement opportunities. None of that matters to NBA players because job security and exposure are guaranteed no matter where they are playing.

Working in the office isn't a competetive sport either. By leaving a team to join up with your superstar friends, you're showing a lack of competetive spirit.

[Walid]

You know why superstars these days do it? Because bitchy fans and **** media won't get off their back. If you don't have a ring by the time you are 25 or 26 your career is a failure and you are a choker/not a winner. Every superstar is put against an imaginary standard of Jordan, found wanting because they don't have the rings or some other reason--and castrated before the 24 hour sports media.

I mean it's ridiculous. KG was a better player in Minnesota. But there he was a loser who could never get it done in the playoffs. He goes to the Celtics and wins some titles--now he's a winner and will go down as an all-time great player.

You guys did the same thing to Lebron. Couldn't be happy enough with what he was doing in Cleveland. If he wasn't winning 72 games every year and stacking up the rings, he wasn't as good as Kobe or Michael.

Superstars these days aren't really allowed to learn hard lessons anymore. They pretty much have to put themselves in a position where they can start stacking rings, or their career is null and void by the age of 27.

So I'd say they're not the problem. We're the problem.

And at any rate, almost every team that has won a title did it with at least two hall of famers on their team. You can literally sit here and name the expections to that. Lakers, Celtics, Bulls--all of the dynasties had multiple hall of famers on their team. And for the Lakers they've had multiple times through their history where they've had at least two of top five players in the game on their side ala the Heat.

The talent level of these teams is not new, and if you knew your NBA history you'd know that.

The thing that has changed is that the players are the ones assembling the teams now, not the organizations.

Which is of course a direct effect of the NBA's max salary restrictions in the CBA which make it not really that much of a big deal financially for a star to take less money to sign somewhere else, because they make more off the court anyways.

The difference between what the Cavs could have offered Lebron to keep him, and what he Heat got him with, is a drop in the hat compared to how much more money he'll make if he wins a ring with the Heat. If the Cavs had put another star with Lebron like the Thunder did with Durant, I doubt Lebron would have left in the end. But his final year there was nothing on that team with a future.

Can we sticky this?

[mh_3]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but the notion that a superstar can win a championship by himself is ridiculous. Winning a championship is not an individual achievement. It's not an MVP trophy or All-Star selection or All-NBA teams selections. It's something one team a year achieves.

Tired of people saying, ohhh LeBron or Melo or CP3 can't do it alone. Of course not! They aren't 15 guys in 1!

[christian72589]

I've never been to new orleans or cleveland, but let's just clear up that orlando isn't some crap city to live in as a young man with money. I don't imagine NO or CLE is all that bad either. teaming up is bad for the game. I personally think demanding trades to create super teams makes you a p***y. add to that how the stars of those teams appear to alienate themselves from the rest of the team and it just looks bad all around.

[hourockman]

bs. Lakers only became contenders again after they stole Gasol

Remember the idiots back then, a lot of them here, who were claiming things like, "Haha, Pau Gasol? 0-12 in the playoffs, derrr! He won't help LA win the title, the Lakers are overrated." (yes, they actually said, derrr)

[hourockman]

I've never been to new orleans or cleveland,

I don't imagine NO or CLE is all that bad either. teaming up is bad for the game.

Bolstering your point is Bron going to Miami and Paul asking to go to NY.

[deNIEd]

Most of these "superteams" have players who have come from incompetent teams.

If all the superstars/stars in the NBA were evenly spread out, then the GM's/FO's of the league decide who wins and loses. Some the NBA was a completely level playing field, teams like SA, OKC, MIA would dominate all...teams with GM's that know what they are doing.

However, look at Minn (KG), Cle (Lebron), Orl (Dwight), NO (CP3), etc., the GM's have all built bad/mediocre franchises and the success of the franchise has solely lied on the shoulders of these superstars.

Today's breed of superstars are different from before. They have essentially said, "my GM/FO sucks, they can't build a winner, so I will."

[hourockman]

Not possible to win alone in todays league. If it was, the Cavs would have done it. You need 2-3 major stars and good role players, or deep, stacked talent top to bottom like the Mavs.

Either one is hard to attain. Good luck in Toronto.

Yeah you're right, Toronto doesn't have the league given ability to swindle stars for a pack of cheese doodles and condoms. Gotta love Laker fans - always justifying their team.

Memphis was told by Stern to give Gasol to the Lakers. Orlando is now being pressured.

Toronto doesn't have flash, peezaz, coke money.

[deNIEd]

I've never been to new orleans or cleveland, but let's just clear up that orlando isn't some crap city to live in as a young man with money. I don't imagine NO or CLE is all that bad either. teaming up is bad for the game. I personally think demanding trades to create super teams makes you a p***y. add to that how the stars of those teams appear to alienate themselves from the rest of the team and it just looks bad all around.

So these stars should be forced to stay on mediocre teams their entire careers, even though they are HOF/near HOF talent? I think, the difference is, the GM's of prior generations, were just more competent.

Kobe wanted off of Lakers when they were a lottery team. Suppose the Lakers didn't draft Bynum and didn't manage to trade for Gasol and ran with a roster of Chucky Atkins/Caron Butler/Lamar Odom/Chris Mihm for 2-3 years. If the LAL FO wasn't competent enough to bring the Lakers any additional help, do you really think Kobe would have been happy? Now suppose the LAL FO refuses to trade him, do you really think Kobe is likely to resign with a team that doesn't have the management to lead them to success? And of course, if you were going to leave your current team, and had the option of playing anywhere you want, wouldn't you want to play with your friends? If you had the ability to choose to work at any company you wanted and one particular company had a load of your buddies, you would more than likely work there too.

If Durant leaves OKC. Or Rose leaves Chicago. Or Dirk leaves Dallas...THEN we have a problem. But so far, all of the superstars leaving their respective teams, have just been on crappy teams.

[Jazzy13]

If Durant leaves OKC. Or Rose leaves Chicago. Or Dirk leaves Dallas...THEN we have a problem. But so far, all of the superstars leaving their respective teams, have just been on crappy teams.

Lets be real here, Durant is the one that is most likely.

Stars dont leave large markets unless its for another large market.

[EscapoTHB]

Not possible to win alone in todays league. If it was, the Cavs would have done it. You need 2-3 major stars and good role players, or deep, stacked talent top to bottom like the Mavs.

Either one is hard to attain. Good luck in Toronto.

Yeah you're right, Toronto doesn't have the league given ability to swindle stars for a pack of cheese doodles and condoms. Gotta love Laker fans - always justifying their team.

Memphis was told by Stern to give Gasol to the Lakers. Orlando is now being pressured.

Toronto doesn't have flash, peezaz, coke money.

If this is true then CP3 will get traded to the Knicks soon, right? The NBA actually owns the Hornets, so they actually can literally act out your conspiracy theory.

[NYK0605]

If Durant leaves OKC. Or Rose leaves Chicago. Or Dirk leaves Dallas...THEN we have a problem. But so far, all of the superstars leaving their respective teams, have just been on crappy teams.

Being on crappy teams is just part of the reason for leaving though.

I believe #1 is market for MOST. You don't see anyone fleeing to OKC, do you?

[deNIEd]

If Durant leaves OKC. Or Rose leaves Chicago. Or Dirk leaves Dallas...THEN we have a problem. But so far, all of the superstars leaving their respective teams, have just been on crappy teams.

Lets be real here, Durant is the one that is most likely.

Stars dont leave large markets unless its for another large market.

Was trying to think of examples of superstar-type players leaving contending/well run organizations. No one thought Chris Webber would stay in Sacramento (he didn't even think he would), but when Petrie and the rest of the FO built a contending team around Webber, his entire attitude changed.

For most of these players, winning > all.

[SacTownKings4Life]

This is ridiculous, why do superstars feel the need to join other superstars? The question is pretty simple. Seriously we have the all star game if they want to play with each other. All these superstars want to win a ring the easy way. I loved the nba back in the day when teams had a star and great role players. Players these days have the wrong mentality. They should all be wanting to compete hard against each other. Not join forces and just win because of an abundance of talent. The nba looks like a watered down league when only a quarter of its teams have all the talent. If all these stars chose a team each, we would be in for some great competition every night.

Yawn... another day, another whiny thread...
So name me the last superstar who won a title who was TRULY "alone". Don't worry, I'll wait...

[CrazyB0y]

This is ridiculous, why do superstars feel the need to join other superstars? The question is pretty simple. Seriously we have the all star game if they want to play with each other. All these superstars want to win a ring the easy way. I loved the nba back in the day when teams had a star and great role players. Players these days have the wrong mentality. They should all be wanting to compete hard against each other. Not join forces and just win because of an abundance of talent. The nba looks like a watered down league when only a quarter of its teams have all the talent. If all these stars chose a team each, we would be in for some great competition every night.

Yawn... another day, another whiny thread...
So name me the last superstar who won a title who was TRULY "alone". Don't worry, I'll wait...

Dirk - only all star on the team, only one who could create his own shot.
had a legendary post season clutch output only Jordan or Shaq ever reached once in the history of the NBA. broke several all time records for the playoffs (most efficient game ever, most consecutive FTs hit in a Q and for a whole game, highest FT% for a player in the history of the post season and many more)

before Dirk, it was Hakeem in 94

[BadMojo]

If Durant leaves OKC. Or Rose leaves Chicago. Or Dirk leaves Dallas...THEN we have a problem. But so far, all of the superstars leaving their respective teams, have just been on crappy teams.

Being on crappy teams is just part of the reason for leaving though.

I believe #1 is market for MOST. You don't see anyone fleeing to OKC, do you?

Why weren't all the top FA's flocking to NYC then when they sucked for all those years if market is #1? The only reason Paul wants to go there now is because someone broke the trend, another guy came and now Paul thinks they can win it all with him added to the mix. They probably talked about it after the 3 went to Miami and now they are setting it in motion. I'm sure being in NYC is also plays a factor but do you honeslty believe that he would insist on going there if they didn't already have his friends Amare and Anthony?

I don't care what any of these guys do but market isn't the most important factor. It's winning and if they don't think they can win where they are at, they will leave. Being in a good market is just a bonus.

If I'm wrong and market is the #1 priority for most NBA players then something is seriously wrong with these guys. They get paid big money to play a game. They don't have to stay there the whole season, they are on the road a lot anyway. They can live wherever they want to live in the offseason. I'd play in the South Pole or the Sahara Desert if I was making that much money.

[SacTownKings4Life]

This is ridiculous, why do superstars feel the need to join other superstars? The question is pretty simple. Seriously we have the all star game if they want to play with each other. All these superstars want to win a ring the easy way. I loved the nba back in the day when teams had a star and great role players. Players these days have the wrong mentality. They should all be wanting to compete hard against each other. Not join forces and just win because of an abundance of talent. The nba looks like a watered down league when only a quarter of its teams have all the talent. If all these stars chose a team each, we would be in for some great competition every night.

Yawn... another day, another whiny thread...
So name me the last superstar who won a title who was TRULY "alone". Don't worry, I'll wait...

Dirk - only all star on the team, only one who could create his own shot.
had a legendary post season clutch output only Jordan or Shaq ever reached once in the history of the NBA. broke several all time records for the playoffs (most efficient game ever, most consecutive FTs hit in a Q and for a whole game, highest FT% for a player in the history of the post season and many more)

before Dirk, it was Hakeem in 94

Oh yeah, he had absolutely ZERO help from non-allstar Jason Kidd or Shawn Marion or Peja Stojakovic or all-star caliber Jason Terry...

[dangermouse]

This is ridiculous, why do superstars feel the need to join other superstars? The question is pretty simple. Seriously we have the all star game if they want to play with each other. All these superstars want to win a ring the easy way. I loved the nba back in the day when teams had a star and great role players. Players these days have the wrong mentality. They should all be wanting to compete hard against each other. Not join forces and just win because of an abundance of talent. The nba looks like a watered down league when only a quarter of its teams have all the talent. If all these stars chose a team each, we would be in for some great competition every night.

You mean back in the day when Lakers had Kobe and Shaq or back in the days of Jordan and Pippen. Maybe even further back when the lakers had Magic/Kareem/Worthy or the Celtics had Bird, McHale and Parish.

The NBA has never had a period where it wasn't dominated by superteams. The main problem is that the super teams were usually made by great drafting and great trades as opposed to players signing outright.

Bird (drafted), McHale (drafted), Parish (traded) <----- GM created, NOT player created.

Magic (drafted), Kareem (wanted to go to a big city, NY or LA, so this sort of fits your argument), Worthy (drafted) <---- mostly GM created apart from Kareem, BUT, Magic and Worthy weren't even in LA when Kareem wanted to go there...

The only one that really fits as a "player created" team is Shaq/Kobe, and even then there would be people who would dispute that.

There has never been a team as "player created" as the current Heat, end of story.

I agree with a poster above who basically said teams, of superfriends or otherwise, should be created by good GM's and not by players who want all the glory for a third of the work.

[CrazyB0y]

Yawn... another day, another whiny thread...
So name me the last superstar who won a title who was TRULY "alone". Don't worry, I'll wait...

Dirk - only all star on the team, only one who could create his own shot.
had a legendary post season clutch output only Jordan or Shaq ever reached once in the history of the NBA. broke several all time records for the playoffs (most efficient game ever, most consecutive FTs hit in a Q and for a whole game, highest FT% for a player in the history of the post season and many more)

before Dirk, it was Hakeem in 94

Oh yeah, he had absolutely ZERO help from non-allstar Jason Kidd or Shawn Marion or Peja Stojakovic or all-star caliber Jason Terry...

wow 34 years old Jason Terry is all star caliber now ?
why did he never make any all star team then ? and why was his disappearing act the past 3 years the reason the Mavs never advanced deep into the playoffs, I guess his .399 FG% (!!!!) over the last 3 post seasons is all star like to you.

Stojakovic and his 6 minutes per game really helped in the finals too.

38 year old Kidd and 33 year old vastly past their prime guys played well, thats for sure. but if you look at their impact, both had negative value while on the floor for the playoffs (Kidd: -0.64, Marion -7.81)

It was Dirk with his mind boggling +16.59 who made everyone around him better.

you have to get back to 94 to find someone who was surrounded with that many role players and willed his team on his own to the championship with his superb offense.

[TheDunc]

No superstar can win alone, but a superstar with very good role players like Dallas had can win. Look i have no problem with a superstar being joined by another star because the gm made a good trade. What i have a problem with is these players forcing there way on to the same team. These superstars are taking the easiest way out. Dont get me wrong these teams will be entertaining to watch while the other 25 teams wont be. How can anyone deny whats happening in the nba right now. The nba's biggest stars are all joining together to try and win a ring. I will not be impressed one bit if they do.