Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league?

MastaStrategist · Post #61 » by **MastaStrategist** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:25 pm

Illmatic21 wrote:
parapooper wrote:Please tell me how Kobe was even remotely close to Wade and Dirk 2006, Duncan 2007, Garnett 2008 and LeBron 2009

And somebody please call an ambulance for the guy who just wrote Kobe was the best player in 2005.

parapooper · Post #62 » by **parapooper** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:26 pm

kasino wrote:
PER makes Wade better than Duncan/Bird/Moses(I could go on)

That's because PER overvalues players who shoot a lot at medium efficiency.
So it's basically a representation of the whole box score in a way that is about as favorable to Kobe as it gets. Yet he still only cracked the top3 in PER once in his entire career - and that was thanks to the highest usage in NBA history.

kasino wrote:IDK enough about Win Shares but Stockton better than Shaq

Shaq 5x top2 in WS,
Stockton 0x

kasino wrote:I do know Kobe produced and it led to winning
his production matched his results

He missed 41 games overall on his championship teams and they had pretty much exactly the same win% with him or without him.

soxfan2003 · Post #63 » by **soxfan2003** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:47 pm

Way too often the regular season MVP is about team success which doesn't make any sense when about 6-7 players play significant minutes on a basketball team. The folks voting on the award are simply not that knowledgeable and willing to think outside established tradition.

The award should really go to a player based upon their play that season would have been selected first by the most knowledgeable analysts in a draft among all of the players available for that specific year. Thus a Nash or Rose should never been selected simply because they fit a particular scheme well or were on great teams. Jordan lobbying for Rose made that award even more comical.

I don't think Kobe has ever been the most valuable player in the league but that isn't a crime since basketball is a game usually biased towards big men since dominant big men almost always influence the game more on the defensive end. I though Lebron's all around unselfish game surpassed Kobe prior to 2009.

But if truly informed coaches were selecting, I think KG despite his teams being mediocre record wise many year would have won a few more MVPs after Shaq wasn't quite as dominant.

As great as Jordan was, his team went 40-42 I believe in a year that was one of his statistical best years. And Jordan that year played in a slightly weaker era then KG in the mid 2000's and had one teammate (Oakley in his prime) that was better then any player KG played with until KG arrived in Boston to play with PP and RA.

kasino · Post #64 » by **kasino** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:59 pm

parapooper wrote:
kasino wrote:
PER makes Wade better than Duncan/Bird/Moses(I could go on)

That's because PER overvalues players who shoot a lot at medium efficiency.
So it's basically a representation of the whole box score in a way that is about as favorable to Kobe as it gets. Yet he still only cracked the top3 in PER once in his entire career - and that was thanks to the highest usage in NBA history.

kasino wrote:IDK enough about Win Shares but Stockton better than Shaq

Shaq 5x top2 in WS,
Stockton 0x

kasino wrote:I do know Kobe produced and it led to winning
his production matched his results

He missed 41 games overall on his championship teams and they had pretty much exactly the same win% with him or without him.

ok Kobe bad PER
Wade better than Bird/Duncan/Moses?

that WS is for career
so Stockton had a better career than Shaq

what teams? are you including the 3peat?
I know for a fact he only missed 5 games in his last 3 Finals runs

for the 3pt he
missed 16 in 00(whats the record without him?)
missed 14 in 01(whats the record without him?)
missed 2 in 02(whats the record without him?)

Lakersmylife · Post #65 » by **Lakersmylife** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:05 pm

parapooper wrote:Please tell me how Kobe was even remotely close to Wade and Dirk 2006, Duncan 2007, Garnett 2008 and LeBron 2009

And somebody please call an ambulance for the guy who just wrote Kobe was the best player in 2005.

I know you're just trolling, but congrats, this comment is going to be my new sig.

astrallite · Post #66 » by **astrallite** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:08 pm

According to Lakersground.net Kobe has been the best player for the last 10 years.

Joao Saraiva · Post #67 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:09 pm

Anybody saying Kobe had a better reg. season or post season individually over LeBron... oh my. Some of you guys just never admit it.

LeBron had one of the best EVER playoff runs. Just look at his statline in the POs. Just look at what he did against Orlando.

I know LBJ wasn't a champion. But that one CAN'T be on him unless you're just a dumb hater.

Lakersmylife · Post #68 » by **Lakersmylife** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:11 pm

astrallite wrote:According to Lakersground.net Kobe has been the best player for the last 10 years.

According to Realgm's GB, Kobe's career isn't even on the same level as Tmac's.

KobeBeanBryant · Post #69 » by **KobeBeanBryant** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:11 pm

yitur wrote:05-06 to 08-09 he was the best player in the league.

In the mans defence he was injured and missed up to 20 games and wasn't healthy when playing which resulted in Lakers missing the playoffs.

But yeah ofcourse he wasn't best that season, I would say he had a case between 06-09 and probably being best 07 and 08.

Shaheen · Post #70 » by **Shaheen** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:13 pm

IN 2009 and 2010. Championships mean something.

bigrussia · Post #71 » by **bigrussia** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:22 pm

kobes best years were: 03, 05-08.
in 03: shaq, duncan, and tmac played better.
in 05: duncan played better (and shaq is arguable)
in 06: kobe was the best (should've won mvp also), he was better than dwhistle and dirk, and shaq, and duncan and lebron
in 07: close between kobe/duncan (sorry dirk), but duncan.
in 08: kobe's most overrated season, Lebron was the best cause he finally had some defense (since that happened, it's been all over for everyone), then Paul, and maybe KG (who should've been MVP, and if not KG, then paul), so kobe was 3rd/4th best.
post08: lebron, lebron, and lebron.

Chocobanana · Post #72 » by **Chocobanana** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:24 pm

i t hink skill-wise, kobe was definitely the best player in the 05-06 season.

TheXFactor · Post #73 » by **TheXFactor** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:24 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pR09mF2qU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZbAh1wPoNI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_hJuAyQkpI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyhX2YMgNvs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVEk7V7sqyA&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liKW_fyV-UQ&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sTlxfIEx2I&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gsYi0CJvm0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqL2ikTgGY[/youtube]

Ballings7 · Post #74 » by **Ballings7** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:28 pm

I'd say he was in 05-06 and 06-07 on level of play and skill, and arguable in 2008/2009.

ShowTimeERA · Post #75 » by **ShowTimeERA** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:33 pm

ecnirp wrote:Grabs popcorn. Awaits ShowTimeEra

I am done with entertaining these type of threads/debates. Lets put it this way, me getting into this debate is similar to me getting into an altercation with a minor...It makes no sense and in the end, we all get no where...

trufan24 · Post #76 » by **trufan24** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:35 pm

just pure basketball skills, Kobe has been the best in the business for atleast a decade i would say, and like Alvin Gentry said, its not even close..........take away the championships, take away the stats, whos better than Kobe really?

Grumpy Heat Fan · Post #77 » by **Grumpy Heat Fan** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:36 pm

Kobe only has an argument for best player in the league for maybe 1 to 3 seasons, in his 16 year career.

That is how overrated he is. Which is funny because of how some peple talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

bigrussia · Post #78 » by **bigrussia** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:38 pm

trufan24 wrote:just pure basketball skills, Kobe has been the best in the business for atleast a decade i would say, and like Alvin Gentry said, its not even close..........take away the championships, take away the stats, whos better than Kobe really?

skills are not the only thing that make an nba player. size and athleticism do as well. saying kobe is the most skilled is nice, but it doesn't mean anything beyond that

ShowTimeERA · Post #79 » by **ShowTimeERA** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:40 pm

StrengthNHonor wrote:Kobe only has an argument for best player in the league for maybe 1 to 3 seasons, in his 16 year career.

That is how overrated he is. Laker fans talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

Sitting on the bench for the better half of your early career, playing alongside and against two other top 10 players does that to your career. Every player isn't as fortunate as Lebron to play in a water-downed era...

MannyRam99 · Post #80 » by **MannyRam99** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:42 pm

StrengthNHonor wrote:Laker fans talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

no.

the league and the media talked about him as the second coming of MJ. Its tragic that he wasn't able to live up to the hype at all. :roll:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k[/youtube]
Listen to the beginning of the broadcast and then watch the clip. Would you not beleive you are watching a young MJ ????

thought so.