RealGM

Why harden?

How can a guy go from best 6th to MIP?

Hes not in the running imo.

Not that this is how the award is actually given, but here are PER improvements from the previous best year to this year (through 11/17):

1. Crawford: 6.0 (18.9 -> 24.9)
2. Walker: 5.4 (14.9 -> 20.3)
3. Mayo: 5.4 (14.7 -> 20.1)
4. Batum: 4.9 (17.3 -> 22.2)
5. Varejao: 4.4 (18.9 -> 23.0)
6. Dragic: 3.8 (18 -> 21.8)
7. Holiday: 3.6 (15.4 -> 18.0)
8. Sanders: 3.6 (13.3 -> 16.9)
9. Redick: 3.3 (15.1 -> 18.4)
10. JR Smith: 2.7 (18.1 -> 20.8)
11. D. Jordan: 2.5 (16.4 -> 18.9)
12. G. Davis: 2.2 (13.2 -> 15.4)
13. DeRozan: 1.9 (14.4 -> 16.3)
14. Asik: 0.7 (13.4 -> 14.1)
15. Harden: 0.4 (21.1 -> 21.5)

16. Ibaka: -0.4 (19.0 -> 18.6)
17. Kirilenko: -3.2 (24.4 -> 21.2)

In fact, if anything, I'd say you are LESS likely to win the award if you currently have a big PER improvement. Crawford and Walker are much more likely to just regress to their mean, while people like Asik and Harden are likely to keep on playing the same as they always have (with more minutes), and thus I'd bet on them.

Still, booby prize for whoever suggested AK47.

Basti wrote:Not that I think he's a top candidate anyway but would Kirilenko be eligible?

Are there any rules about this award? I think you can vote for anyone.

Worth noting that we have a MIP instead of a "Comeback Player of the Year" award. Kirilenko would clearly run away with CPOY.

Promezclan wrote:Not that this is how the award is actually given, but here are PER improvements from the previous best year to this year (through 11/17):

1. Crawford: 6.0 (18.9 -> 24.9)
2. Walker: 5.4 (14.9 -> 20.3)
3. Mayo: 5.4 (14.7 -> 20.1)
4. Batum: 4.9 (17.3 -> 22.2)
5. Varejao: 4.4 (18.9 -> 23.0)
6. Dragic: 3.8 (18 -> 21.8)
7. Holiday: 3.6 (15.4 -> 18.0)
8. Sanders: 3.6 (13.3 -> 16.9)
9. Redick: 3.3 (15.1 -> 18.4)
10. JR Smith: 2.7 (18.1 -> 20.8)
11. D. Jordan: 2.5 (16.4 -> 18.9)
12. G. Davis: 2.2 (13.2 -> 15.4)
13. DeRozan: 1.9 (14.4 -> 16.3)
14. Asik: 0.7 (13.4 -> 14.1)
15. Harden: 0.4 (21.1 -> 21.5)

16. Ibaka: -0.4 (19.0 -> 18.6)
17. Kirilenko: -3.2 (24.4 -> 21.2)

In fact, if anything, I'd say you are LESS likely to win the award if you currently have a big PER improvement. Crawford and Walker are much more likely to just regress to their mean, while people like Asik and Harden are likely to keep on playing the same as they always have (with more minutes), and thus I'd bet on them.

Still, booby prize for whoever suggested AK47.

Are you serious?

Obviously they're considering Kirilenko compared to where he left off, not compared to his peak. If you do aPER judgement that way then Kirilenko is right there with Varejao.

aal04 wrote:Why harden?

How can a guy go from best 6th to MIP?

Hes not in the running imo.

By being way better than a 6MOY I suppose. Not sure what's hard to grasp here. It's not like 6MOY is an award so prestigious that no further improvement is beneficial. Quite frankly, anyone who wins the award probably has mixed feelings about even getting it.

But anyway, no, I don't see him being a strong candidate for the award.

richboy wrote:Advanced stats would say Harden is actually worse only shooting more as a number 1 option. But not nearly as efficiently.

I would say Mayo or Batum. Mayo was thought for dead. Was on the verge of bust status. Suddenly people are thinking maybe if Dirk comes back with the way he has played they can do something.

OJ Mayo for Most Improved and All-Star Selection


how many guards are on an All-Star roster?

Kobe
Paul

are locks

Reverse Candidates: Russell Westbrook, OJ Mayo, James Harden , Kevin Martin, Jamal Crawford,

OJ has a real shot at All-Star if he keeps this up !

If we're going to do this weird PER improvement thing, Kevin Martin jumps toward the top. 16.5 -> 22.5, +6 PER

Doctor MJ wrote:

aal04 wrote:Why harden?

How can a guy go from best 6th to MIP?

Hes not in the running imo.

By being way better than a 6MOY I suppose. Not sure what's hard to grasp here. It's not like 6MOY is an award so prestigious that no further improvement is beneficial. Quite frankly, anyone who wins the award probably has mixed feelings about even getting it.

But anyway, no, I don't see him being a strong candidate for the award.

He's regressed is nearly everything except raw scoring. He would be a terrible choice for most improved at this point.

Yes I quoted you to agree with you

Doctor MJ wrote:

Promezclan wrote:Not that this is how the award is actually given, but here are PER improvements from the previous best year to this year (through 11/17):

1. Crawford: 6.0 (18.9 -> 24.9)
2. Walker: 5.4 (14.9 -> 20.3)
3. Mayo: 5.4 (14.7 -> 20.1)
4. Batum: 4.9 (17.3 -> 22.2)
5. Varejao: 4.4 (18.9 -> 23.0)
6. Dragic: 3.8 (18 -> 21.8)
7. Holiday: 3.6 (15.4 -> 18.0)
8. Sanders: 3.6 (13.3 -> 16.9)
9. Redick: 3.3 (15.1 -> 18.4)
10. JR Smith: 2.7 (18.1 -> 20.8)
11. D. Jordan: 2.5 (16.4 -> 18.9)
12. G. Davis: 2.2 (13.2 -> 15.4)
13. DeRozan: 1.9 (14.4 -> 16.3)
14. Asik: 0.7 (13.4 -> 14.1)
15. Harden: 0.4 (21.1 -> 21.5)

16. Ibaka: -0.4 (19.0 -> 18.6)
17. Kirilenko: -3.2 (24.4 -> 21.2)

In fact, if anything, I'd say you are LESS likely to win the award if you currently have a big PER improvement. Crawford and Walker are much more likely to just regress to their mean, while people like Asik and Harden are likely to keep on playing the same as they always have (with more minutes), and thus I'd bet on them.

Still, booby prize for whoever suggested AK47.

Are you serious?

Obviously they're considering Kirilenko compared to where he left off, not compared to his peak. If you do aPER judgement that way then Kirilenko is right there with Varejao.

The recognition is for "an up-and-coming player who has made a dramatic improvement from the previous season or seasons. It is not intended to be given to a player who has made a 'comeback."

lilojmayo wrote:how many guards are on an All-Star roster?

Kobe
Paul

are locks

Reverse Candidates: Russell Westbrook, OJ Mayo, James Harden , Kevin Martin, Jamal Crawford,

OJ has a real shot at All-Star if he keeps this up !

Well you forgot Tony Parker who with westbrrok is basically a lock for the ASG...

As some others have said, it'd be better if the award isn't given to 2nd/3rd or even 4th year players as they should be improving, no?

Carl Landry should get consideration. In addition to making clutch buckets, his FG% went from .503 to .613, and his PPG went from 12.5 to 15.2 Also his rebounds and assists went a little up.

Most importantly, he is now the 2nd highest FG% in the whole league:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fi ... ason=22012

Promezclan wrote:Yeah, if JR Smith continues to shoot 64% on 3-pointers, he's pretty golden

Obviously JR won't continue to shoot 64%, but he's doing a lot of things right. He's playing smarter, shooting less (last year, it was a 3-for-all, this year he's taking better shots). Partying less too. I think the lack of contract offers this off season was a wake-up call and he's playing like a new man. He always had the tools, this year, for the first time, he's using them.

I don't think he'll win MIP though I think he's very much in the running for 6MOY. He's worth mentioning as one of the guys who's really improved this year.

RGMirs wrote:Carl Landry should get consideration. In addition to making clutch buckets, his FG% went from .503 to .613, and his PPG went from 12.5 to 15.2 Also his rebounds and assists went a little up.

Most importantly, he is now the 2nd highest FG% in the whole league:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fi ... ason=22012

He already had a break-out, MIP-type season in Houston scuppered by a trade to Sacramento. Was an absolute fan-favorite here, always brought so much heart and played above his height.

SERIOUSLY stop talking nonsense

Kirilenko was an All Star
Mayo had 18.5ppg in his rookie year
Dragic played better last year

Top candidate is Harden, from 6th man to All Star and 2nd best SG in the league, that's improvement.

fallacy wrote:If we're going to do this weird PER improvement thing, Kevin Martin jumps toward the top. 16.5 -> 22.5, +6 PER

No, it would be +1.2.

Look, not only does it not make ANY damn sense to say someone has "improved" just because they happened to have a crappy season the year before, as I noted above, the voting rules SPECIFICALLY say to look at multiple "years." that it is for "up-and-coming-players", and that it is NOT a comeback player of the year award.

I don't think 2nd or 3rd year players should win, and I don't think just because players are getting more minutes (but producing at roughly the same per minute rate) are good candidates.. like Asik.

To me the player most exceeding expectations has been JR Smith. Incredible stats and play for a team off to an incredible start.

Fischella wrote:SERIOUSLY stop talking nonsense

Kirilenko was an All Star
Mayo had 18.5ppg in his rookie year
Dragic played better last year

Top candidate is Harden, from 6th man to All Star and 2nd best SG in the league, that's improvement.

But is Harden actually a better player than he was a month ago on the Thunder? I doubt it. I think his role has expanded, and he was already that good.

Fear Omer!!...or DJ

DEMAR DEROZAN!