Can anybody catch the Knicks in the Atlantic?

[King_John]

I understand all of this. In fact I thought they would be #4 in the East going into the season (ahead of BK) and behind Miami, Boston and Indy. I thought they would be #6 prior to last season.. and they were #7. I think I have a good understanding of this team as I get to see them any time I want.

It's playoff basketball that I have my doubts about and always have. I think they are a great regular season team with their depth and shooting and don't think they lose the Atlantic. But considering many thought they were the best or second best team in the East, I figured most thought they were going to the ECF.

I don't believe many thought the Knicks would have the best or second best record in the East prior to the season starting. I am curious to see some proof on that.

The Knicks have yet to play at full strength and again, going back to the beginning of the season, they were called old and the barely improved with Raymond "Fatton" and two old PGs. I was hearing that Kidd was washed up because of his last season in Dallas and Melo won't be enough for this team to do anything.

What this Knicks roster does in the playoffs is a mystery. Using prior years results as evidence won't work.

I agree with you that most people didn t expect the Knicks to be second seed in the East. Although the whole " they are not even at full strength" argument is BS. Shumpert won t be back at full strength until next season (so he is a non-factor)...Amare is still up for discussion in terms what he can bring to the table for the Knicks...all in all the Knicks are a better team than last year but not yet a contender

[omerome]

I agree with you that most people didn t expect the Knicks to be second seed in the East. Although the whole " they are not even at full strength" argument is BS. Shumpert won t be back at full strength until next season (so he is a non-factor)...Amare is still up for discussion in terms what he can bring to the table for the Knicks...all in all the Knicks are a better team than last year but not yet a contender

I am saying that the Knicks are 22-10 right now despite not being at full strength.

Getting Shumpert back even if he's not at full strength will help the team. It will cut down on Kidd's minutes for example which is important in the playoffs. Just getting Amar'e back is helpful because right now, the Knicks need a big man. Amar'e and Shumpert may not be 100% ready to go but their presence is important. So no, it's not BS.

[King_John]

I agree with you that most people didn t expect the Knicks to be second seed in the East. Although the whole " they are not even at full strength" argument is BS. Shumpert won t be back at full strength until next season (so he is a non-factor)...Amare is still up for discussion in terms what he can bring to the table for the Knicks...all in all the Knicks are a better team than last year but not yet a contender

I am saying that the Knicks are 22-10 right now despite not being at full strength.

Getting Shumpert back even if he's not at full strength will help the team. It will cut down on Kidd's minutes for example which is important in the playoffs. Just getting Amar'e back is helpful because right now, the Knicks need a big man. Amar'e and Shumpert may not be 100% ready to go but their presence is important. So no, it's not BS.

I don t know just don t see it happen but I guess we know more at the end of the RS.

[JustaKnickFan]

Totally agree, the playoffs are all about match-ups and home court, well home-court is well kind of dimished and Nets match up fairly well. Couple that the knicks inability to get to the second round over the course of the last 10 years(1 game won), it's not that hard to see a tough well fought series but yeah no not a snow flakes chance in hell the nets catch the knicks for first in the atlantic.

Is this still being recognized as a legitimate argument? Does this also mean the Nyets will miss playoffs all together?

No because we are a brand new team and have nothing to go by.

You guys have the core of your team from the last two seasons which is 1-8 in the playoffs.

In fact you guys have Melo who I think has the lowest winning percentage in the playoffs of all time.. or right up there with McGrady as inefficient volume scorers tend not to do well in the playoffs... as those two have evidenced.

In fact, not knowing the match-ups, I would make an avy or sig bet that the Knicks don't make the ECF.
Any takers?

You can't use that 1-8 in the playoffs argument when trying to make a case against the Knicks. Here's the thing, last year Melo was banged up, and only really came into form late-season and had a great series against the Heat. However, everyone around him was much worse than they are now. For example, Felton now over Bibby/Baron Davis is a huge upgrade, Kidd over Landry, Chandler now opposed to a Chandler who had the flu, Stoudemire over injured hand Stoudemire, etc.

The Knicks definitely can be caught, but it would take a really bad shooting slump from Melo and some inspired play from other teams in order for that to happen.

[King_John]

No because we are a brand new team and have nothing to go by.

You guys have the core of your team from the last two seasons which is 1-8 in the playoffs.

In fact you guys have Melo who I think has the lowest winning percentage in the playoffs of all time.. or right up there with McGrady as inefficient volume scorers tend not to do well in the playoffs... as those two have evidenced.

In fact, not knowing the match-ups, I would make an avy or sig bet that the Knicks don't make the ECF.
Any takers?[/quote]
You can't use that 1-8 in the playoffs argument when trying to make a case against the Knicks. Here's the thing, last year Melo was banged up, and only really came into form late-season and had a great series against the Heat. However, everyone around him was much worse than they are now. For example, Felton now over Bibby/Baron Davis is a huge upgrade, Kidd over Landry, Chandler now opposed to a Chandler who had the flu, Stoudemire over injured hand Stoudemire, etc.

The Knicks definitely can be caught, but it would take a really bad shooting slump from Melo and some inspired play from other teams in order for that to happen.[/quote]


I will say it like this. This year in the playoffs Melo has to take the Knicks at least to the ECF Finals. If they somehow get eliminated in the first round I don t want to hear any excuses like this player is injured that player has the flue and someone hit the fire extinguisher...so Melo definetly has something to prove no doubt

[omerome]

I will say it like this. This year in the playoffs Melo has to take the Knicks at least to the ECF Finals. If they somehow get eliminated in the first round I don t want to hear any excuses like this player is injured that player has the flue and someone hit the fire extinguisher...so Melo definetly has something to prove no doubt

Wow. So the minimum for you to "get off the Knicks back" is for them to at least make the ECF? Not even advance to the second round and play a hard fought series? When the talk about the Knicks prior to the season starting was, "let's see if they can win a playoff series first", you expect them to least make the ECF? Good grief.

[BKAY]

Nets fans trying to use past knicks playoff series as rationale for them having a chance. riddle me this. How have recent playoff series gone for you guys? ....?....?....Don't worry I'll wait.

I'll give Boston a chance to catch us because they are boston. Nets though? Their closer to 9th seed in the East than 2nd. I mean just look at their stats. The Nets are a weak team man. They dont have one 20+ ppg scorer on the team. If Brooke Lopez is your number one scoring option then you have problems.

I'm praying that Nets and Knicks match up first round in the playoffs so Knicks can sweep them out.

[Ray Den]

Probably not.. but I think one of Chicago, Atlanta or Indy takes the #2 seed from them.

If BK doesn't move up into the 2-4 range, I really hope we face the Knicks in the 1st round. We match up with them very well and seemingly much better than Chicago or Indy.. not sure about Atlanta yet.

Proof of that is a 2-1 deficit, a loss at Barclays, a close win in overtime and a blow out in MSG. Nets get demolished in a 7 game series with the Knicks.

[DarkXaero]

Probably not.. but I think one of Chicago, Atlanta or Indy takes the #2 seed from them.

If BK doesn't move up into the 2-4 range, I really hope we face the Knicks in the 1st round. We match up with them very well and seemingly much better than Chicago or Indy.. not sure about Atlanta yet.

Proof of that is a 2-1 deficit, a loss at Barclays, a close win in overtime and a blow out in MSG. Nets get demolished in a 7 game series with the Knicks.

You do realize that one loss at Barclays was due to an illegal Kidd gamewinner (in addition to more bad calls down the stretch in favor of the Knicks), right?

[Trader_Joe]

Nets fans trying to use past knicks playoff series as rationale for them having a chance. riddle me this. How have recent playoff series gone for you guys? ....?....?....Don't worry I'll wait.

I'll give Boston a chance to catch us because they are boston. Nets though? Their closer to 9th seed in the East than 2nd. I mean just look at their stats. The Nets are a weak team man. They dont have one 20+ ppg scorer on the team. If Brooke Lopez is your number one scoring option then you have problems.

I'm praying that Nets and Knicks match up first round in the playoffs so Knicks can sweep them out.

You guys talking 10 different things.

I'm sticking to my guns here...

1. The Knicks will not be caught in the Atlantic
They are deep, a good regular season team and have a healthy lead.

2. The Knicks are still a major question mark in the playoffs.
But.. by going by their last 2 seasons (1-8) where the main pieces were in place (Melo, Chandler, Smith, Novak, Amare) and Melo's career playoff win percentage (the lowest of all time... because like McGrady inefficient volume scorers don't do well in the playoffs), I don't buy into their playoff potential.

3. I don't think the Nets win the Atlantic, nor do I think they make the ECF
I don't think they can beat Miami, Chicago (with Rose) and Indy will be a test once Granger is back.. but I do know (by evidenced by the 3 games this season) the Nets match up very well with the Knicks.


The Knicks have had the best or 2nd best record in the East most of the season. It seems they would be a favorite along with Miami to make the ECF. I am willing to make a sig/avy bet with any Knick fan right now, without even knowing the match-ups, that they will not make the ECF, however no one seems willing to take me up on that offer.

If I had to guess it's because...
1. People do realize playoff ball is different than regular season ball
2. The Knicks defense has regressed
3. They don't trust the health, age, conditioning of Kidd, Felton, Prigioni, Sheed, KT, Camby come playoff time and Amare and Chandler have missed time in the playoffs as well
4. They are 4-5 in their last 9 and not playing near as well as earlier this season
5. They are a poor rebounding team

[Trader_Joe]

Probably not.. but I think one of Chicago, Atlanta or Indy takes the #2 seed from them.

If BK doesn't move up into the 2-4 range, I really hope we face the Knicks in the 1st round. We match up with them very well and seemingly much better than Chicago or Indy.. not sure about Atlanta yet.

Proof of that is a 2-1 deficit, a loss at Barclays, a close win in overtime and a blow out in MSG. Nets get demolished in a 7 game series with the Knicks.

You do realize that one loss at Barclays was due to an illegal Kidd gamewinner (in addition to more bad calls down the stretch in favor of the Knicks), right?

We also led the 1st 2 games about 75% of the time. The third game the Nets were outplayed and out coached as the players were tuning out Avery and were also playing a back to back as they have the most in the NBA. If Knick fans don't realize we match up very well with them, I don't know what to say. From past game threads I heard plenty of praise from Knick fans saying we were better than they thought and match up well.

[King_John]

I will say it like this. This year in the playoffs Melo has to take the Knicks at least to the ECF Finals. If they somehow get eliminated in the first round I don t want to hear any excuses like this player is injured that player has the flue and someone hit the fire extinguisher...so Melo definetly has something to prove no doubt

Wow. So the minimum for you to "get off the Knicks back" is for them to at least make the ECF? Not even advance to the second round and play a hard fought series? When the talk about the Knicks prior to the season starting was, "let's see if they can win a playoff series first", you expect them to least make the ECF? Good grief.

Sure. All the talk from the NYK Fan Base "Melo plays an MVP season...melo is unstoppable...best scorer in the game etc" you can expect more than the first or second round...don t you think so?

[Knicker23]

Way too early to predict anything. However I think Knicks would have to stumble pretty badly to be caught. If injuries continued to plague Knicks, or if you know who went down (knock on wood), anything would be possible... However if all things are equal and guys remain healthy, I don't see them not winning.. Especially considering the average competition.

As for the playoffs, I'd love to see a Knicks - Nets series. That'd be a fun one. I could see it happening with a 2:7 matchup. I do think Knicks would take it pretty easy. Although the games have been close thus far due to players getting hyped up and all that jazz.. I think the Knicks have the better team when both are healthy, and have the better star player to take over the games. I wouldn't really expect it to go beyond 5 games, maybe 6.

[omerome]

Sigh...

The only main pieces that were in place the last two seasons (1-8) were Amar'e and Melo. So basically what you're saying that it's all Melo and Amar'e's fault for that record, right? Smith, Novak, Chandler, and adding Kidd weren't there two years ago. As a matter of fact, two seasons ago, Chandler and Kidd were winning an NBA championship. So please, can you stop using this 1-8 record like it means anything? It doesn't mean squat. Two years ago we didn't even have Mike Woodson. This team is NOTHING compared to the 2010 team and is not the same as the 2011 team.

Melo's playoff record is such a meaningless stat to go by. So do you really believe that record without looking at it with an objective eye?

You are using other team's injuries as to why they would have a better shot to advance and yet seem to minimize the fact that the Knicks have had their own injuries and use that as why they won't. Meh.

Honestly, I don't want to make a sig/avy bet with you because quite frankly, I don't care.

Edit: This post is in reference to Trader_Joe.

[omerome]

Sure. All the talk from the NYK Fan Base "Melo plays an MVP season...melo is unstoppable...best scorer in the game etc" you can expect more than the first or second round...don t you think so?

Melo is playing like an MVP candidate this season, is he not? Melo is one of the top scorers in the league, is he not? What exactly is wrong with what's been said?

You can't just go from, "at least win a playoff series first" to you have to at least make the ECF. That's a good example of "moving goal posts".

I would be disappointed if the Knicks lose in the first round but then again, ANYONE should be disappointed if their team lost in the first round. You don't make the playoffs just to lose.

[Dear Leader]

Raps in 4 months

[King_John]

Sigh...

The only main pieces that were in place the last two seasons (1-8) were Amar'e and Melo. So basically what you're saying that it's all Melo and Amar'e's fault for that record, right? Smith, Novak, Chandler, and adding Kidd weren't there two years ago. As a matter of fact, two seasons ago, Chandler and Kidd were winning an NBA championship. So please, can you stop using this 1-8 record like it means anything? It doesn't mean squat. Two years ago we didn't even have Mike Woodson. This team is NOTHING compared to the 2010 team and is not the same as the 2011 team.

Melo's playoff record is such a meaningless stat to go by. So do you really believe that record without looking at it with an objective eye?

You are using other team's injuries as to why they would have a better shot to advance and yet seem to minimize the fact that the Knicks have had their own injuries and use that as why they won't. Meh.

Honestly, I don't want to make a sig/avy bet with you because quite frankly, I don't care.

Why is Melo s playoff record a meaningless stat? I don t damn him for being unsuccesful in the post season...but he had good teammates back in Denver...he has good teammates right now...so this playoffs he has to prove he is a real superstar and not t-mac 2.0...all i m saying

[omerome]

Why is Melo s playoff record a meaningless stat? I don t damn him for being unsuccesful in the post season...but he had good teammates back in Denver...he has good teammates right now...so this playoffs he has to prove he is a real superstar and not t-mac 2.0...all i m saying

I guess you expected his good teammates to beat proven perennial NBA championship teams like the Spurs and Lakers, right?

[King_John]

Why is Melo s playoff record a meaningless stat? I don t damn him for being unsuccesful in the post season...but he had good teammates back in Denver...he has good teammates right now...so this playoffs he has to prove he is a real superstar and not t-mac 2.0...all i m saying

I guess you expected his good teammates to beat proven perennial NBA championship teams like the Spurs and Lakers, right?

2006-2007 roster teammates: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Nene, J.R. Smith, Kenyon Martin
--> first round exit with that team!!! ...I mean where are not talking Lakers or Spurs here but first round
2007-2008 same teammates
--> first round exit...
2008-2009 roster teammates: - minus Iverson + chauncey billups
--> conference finals...only playoff success for melo
2009-2010 roster teammates: same team
--> first round exit

you tell that was not being unsuccesful despite having a good team...and they just got to the Conference Finals once in 7 years

[NYK_89]

Why is Melo s playoff record a meaningless stat? I don t damn him for being unsuccesful in the post season...but he had good teammates back in Denver...he has good teammates right now...so this playoffs he has to prove he is a real superstar and not t-mac 2.0...all i m saying

I guess you expected his good teammates to beat proven perennial NBA championship teams like the Spurs and Lakers, right?

2006-2007 roster teammates: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Nene, J.R. Smith, Kenyon Martin
--> first round exit with that team!!! ...I mean where are not talking Lakers or Spurs here but first round
2007-2008 same teammates
--> first round exit...
2008-2009 roster teammates: - minus Iverson + chauncey billups
--> conference finals...only playoff success for melo
2009-2010 roster teammates: same team
--> first round exit

you tell that was not being unsuccesful despite having a good team...and they just got to the Conference Finals once in 7 years

07- lost to champion spurs in that first round exit( Its **** hilarious because you say " we are not talking about the lakers or spurs here" AND THEY LOST TO THE **** SPURS and with the same team the next year lost to the lakers
08- lost to NBA finalist lakers again
09- went to WCF got beaten by future champion lakers
10- lost a 4-5 seed matchup... Not a great moment but 30.7/8.5/3.3 on .465 shooting, acting like he had signifigant help that season and lost it despite it when he put up those numbers is pretty comical.

So in short basically nothing you said even began to disprove the statement. He was in the west and despite having decent teammates it still was not enough to compete with what he was facing year in year out.. All of you want to discredit him but the reality is in every year but i believe 2 he lost to a team that at least reached the WCF and mostly the finals, how you attempt to discredit a player that usually faced a team with a better star like kobe, Duncan or KG along with a better supporting cast.