Has a lazy/unmotivated player ever "gotten it"?

chrisnu · Post #61 » by **chrisnu** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 9:29 pm

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf

blizzard · Post #62 » by **blizzard** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 9:44 pm

What about Tyson Chandler?

immortalone23 · Post #63 » by **immortalone23** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 9:53 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
immortalone23 wrote:I was going to say that. Even though scouts have talked about his post game and shooting form, he looked lazy at Kansas. It's not like he didn't have the talent, he probably wasn't motivated because he had to be at college.

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See everytime I saw him, I didn't see him as lazy, but rather just being part of the Kansas system. They posted up the senior guy (can't remember his name) a ton and made Wiggins a perimeter bail out.

I think he was trying more to blend it and follow what his coach wanted, rather than being lazy or unmotivated.

I was about to post the very same thing.

Well we've heard the lack of drive claims during his high school days, what would you say about that? I, by no means, think he's lazy.

Post #64 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 10:08 pm

immortalone23 wrote:
Yuri Vaultin wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
See everytime I saw him, I didn't see him as lazy, but rather just being part of the Kansas system. They posted up the senior guy (can't remember his name) a ton and made Wiggins a perimeter bail out.

I think he was trying more to blend it and follow what his coach wanted, rather than being lazy or unmotivated.

I was about to post the very same thing.

Well we've heard the lack of drive claims during his high school days, what would you say about that? I, by no means, think he's lazy.

I think it was more his motor. But, when you're compared to players like Kobe - how many people possess his, or Jordan's psychotic drive and competitive spirit? I think Wiggins will be there - I think in high school he could dominate through sheer athleticism and in college, especially in the early part of the season he may have become disengaged as he was ignored on the offensive front and tried too hard to play to the system and not his particular strengths often deferring to lesser players. I think the biggest knock on him in college was people questioning whether he wanted to "be the man". A lot of that may be due to the Canadian polite and not particularly assertive stereotype more than anything - he was a kid that was playing away from home making a different country his home so he had to deal with more than most in College and senior year of high school. It can be a big adjustment, and living up to the hype can be daunting too. I personally think you'll see him adapt and embrace the challenge as he gets more comfortable in the pro game. The thing is, he isn't cocky, brash, or a showboating jerk and that gets mistaken for being passive or lacking in drive in America.

realball · Post #65 » by **realball** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 10:13 pm

ferk wrote:Lowry

Not even close. Before he developed a jumpshot, he was basically a hustle player. Remember him on Villanova? He was relentless.

Perry Jones comes to mind for me. He hasn't completely developed, but I think the "lazy" tag is starting to wear off.

litex · Post #66 » by **litex** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 10:16 pm

Vince Carter. He's gone from a guy who gets by mainly on incredible talent and athleticism to a true veteran who really puts in the work to stay in shape and adapt to whatever his team needs him to do

panthermark · Post #67 » by **panthermark** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 10:16 pm

blizzard wrote:What about Tyson Chandler?

Chandler was never lazy. It just took awhile (and CP3) for him to find his niche. Plus he had back issues early on. I will say that he did find "more" motivation post trade...but he wasn't lazy to begin with.

Now his teammate/draftmate was lazy and unmotivated. (Eddy Curry).

Canada_7 · Post #68 » by **Canada_7** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 12:20 am

Does it have to be a star player? 2 guys that aren't stars that might fit may be Gerald Green and James Johnson. Gerald Green was drafted as a lottery pick that was real cocky but never really "got it" (not sure if it was maturity or just unrefined skills). I was never a fan of the guy back when he played for Boston and Minnesota albeit he played on some losing teams that didn't have much veteran leadership from what I recall. Comes back years later and makes the most of his short Nets stint, plays meh in Indiana, but making the most of his stay in Phoenix currently. He's still a gunner, but he's come a long way it seems.

With James Johnson, one of the biggest question marks about him was his motor if I remember correctly from reading these boards and on the internet. Criticized from not being in the best shape nor pushing himself hard enough, found himself out of the league at the beginning of the 2013-2014 season. Spent some time in the D-League, got himself a spot on the Grizzlies and played a role with them, now doing well with the Raptors. Comparing his first stint with the Raptors to his current version, his play has matured quite a bit. He's in much more control, no more ill advised "hero ball" and bad jumpshots anymore it seems (if I'm wrong, someone can show me with the stats, but he seems to rarely ever take a jumper anymore).

Winsome Gerbil · Post #69 » by **Winsome Gerbil** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 6:52 am

Canada_7 wrote:Does it have to be a star player? 2 guys that aren't stars that might fit may be Gerald Green and James Johnson. Gerald Green was drafted as a lottery pick that was real cocky but never really "got it" (not sure if it was maturity or just unrefined skills). I was never a fan of the guy back when he played for Boston and Minnesota albeit he played on some losing teams that didn't have much veteran leadership from what I recall. Comes back years later and makes the most of his short Nets stint, plays meh in Indiana, but making the most of his stay in Phoenix currently. He's still a gunner, but he's come a long way it seems.

With James Johnson, one of the biggest question marks about him was his motor if I remember correctly from reading these boards and on the internet. Criticized from not being in the best shape nor pushing himself hard enough, found himself out of the league at the beginning of the 2013-2014 season. Spent some time in the D-League, got himself a spot on the Grizzlies and played a role with them, now doing well with the Raptors. Comparing his first stint with the Raptors to his current version, his play has matured quite a bit. He's in much more control, no more ill advised "hero ball" and bad jumpshots anymore it seems (if I'm wrong, someone can show me with the stats, but he seems to rarely ever take a jumper anymore).

yeah, Johnson could be a good example if he can sustain.

I liked that post by the guy above trying to separate different categories of "bad attitude" though. To some degree the different ways guys work out depend on which subcategory they are in. For example Charles Barkley was lazy...but he was a highly motivated competitor who wanted to rip your heart out. So...lazy, but motivated? That's just got to be a different category of player than a Lamar Odom, who has to be different than a Jerome James etc.

Cycklops · Post #70 » by **Cycklops** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 11:19 am

Gary Payton is a big one. I looked through about half the thread and didn't see his name. In his own words, early in his career, he thought as the #2 draft pick that he could just play on instinct, and that's all he did the first few years. Look at the stats.

Foye · Post #71 » by **Foye** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 11:30 am

MartyConlonJr wrote:Odom never sucked but was seen as unmotivated with Clippers, Miami was credited with maturing him.

DeMarcus Cousins had that moniker also and is possibly the best big man in the game now

No.

Revived · Post #72 » by **Revived** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 11:30 am

Ron Mexico wrote:Zach Randolph

I just saw this thread and before I even clicked on it, Z-Bo was the first name that came to my mind.

naabzor · Post #73 » by **naabzor** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 11:53 am

Most of the guys that has been labeled as lazy are really only not that good. IE, Lamb.

Optms · Post #74 » by **Optms** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 12:13 pm

litex wrote:Vince Carter. He's gone from a guy who gets by mainly on incredible talent and athleticism to a true veteran who really puts in the work to stay in shape and adapt to whatever his team needs him to do

I wouldn't say he "got it" or that he got by on "talent and athleticism"

Carter settled for who he was. Even now.

It should surprise no one that he's managed to age well. Being an excellent role player off the bench is just what I expected of him. Someone who is content with his role and couldn't be bothered with striving for more.

naabzor · Post #75 » by **naabzor** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 12:22 pm

Carter is one of the best guards of all time...

Post #76 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 3:38 pm

SF88 wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:Zach Randolph

I just saw this thread and before I even clicked on it, Z-Bo was the first name that came to my mind.

same here. i was actually surprised to read through and not see his name close to immediately.

daoneandonly · Post #77 » by **daoneandonly** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 3:45 pm

Steve Nash

The guy never sniffed double digit assists let alone MVP caliber in Dallas. Cuban declined to pay him what he wanted, and he decided to prove him wrong.

Sc0pe92 · Post #78 » by **Sc0pe92** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 6:01 pm

Birdman? He was a drug addict

Post #79 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 9:50 pm

chrisnu wrote:Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf

true in a way, but the mental illness is what really ever held him back. kinda unfair to put him in this category. but i feel you.

Threethrows · Post #80 » by **Threethrows** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 10:11 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:Zach Randolph

Came in with him in mind, BUT I will defend him a bit. He was mostly just immature and in bad situations. He wasn't really a problem in Portland as much as he was just a young, impressionable guy in a NBA locker room. Very few Zbo incidents really, though. NY, I don't know what that was, a wake up call I think. He's doing well in Memphis outside of a few OTC mentions.

He's never really been the cause of many problems IMO, they just kind of play out through him...