Sophomore Impressions 2016-17

Brapman · Post #61 » by **Brapman** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 9:44 pm

Oubre has a long long way to go before being thought of as better than Johnson and Winslow - including finding a way to get his coach to play him significant minutes. I'm not saying he's not talented, but he isn't all that skilled yet. It's all "boy if he develops himself like crazy, then we've really got something." He is a great athlete, I'll give you that. Any evidence that he knows how to play?

Post #62 » by **Duke4life831** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 9:45 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
cyclix wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:I hate to have to stick up for my own, but Oubre looks to be the main backup to Otto Porter and I'm a fan.
He's athletic, long, and attacks the basket relentlessly. That with a passable 3pt shot (33%+) makes him viable offensively.

And while his team Defense/IQ will need to improve/mature, his on-ball D can be ferocious. He has quick hands and feet along with a 7'2 wingspan and if locks in on you its like watching PG13, Ariza, etc.

I think he ends up being the best wing in the draft class over Johnson, Winslow, etc.

I think Winslow/Stanley are more versatile both offensively and defensively. Both have man bodies already and are younger in age. Both can play multiple positions while Oubre is a tweener at wing

Oubre is 6 months older (All 3 are 20), not really a big deal.
Oubre is taller and longer than both. Nothing tweener about him.
And while not as strong, he is more athletic than both.

i also wouldn't say they are more versatile. While they both defend bigs better because of their size, neither have the foot speed to shut down guards like Oubre (All 3 handle themselves against 3's)
Offesnvily, Oubre will not be the passer Johnson is, but he is a better shooter and gets to the FT more than either.

We'll just have to see, but the fact that they all had comparable rookie years, yet Oubre was clearly the most raw and least physically developed of the 3 out of college gives me hope.

Remember, Johnson played 3X as much and Winslow 4X as much. Oubre was buried by Randy Wittman and it was hard for him to get into rhythm

Winslow doesn't have the foot speed to shut down guards? Winslow guarded 1-4 a lot for Miami. And just ask Miami fans on how he handled that. Oubre is not in the same league as Stanley or Justise on either side of the ball.

TheFire · Post #63 » by **TheFire** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 9:47 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
Ferulci wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Towns vs. Jokic on who becomes a Top 15 player first.

I love Jokic but I would be shocked if he ever was a Top 15 player (I see him as a 2nd/3 best player on a very good team). Towns might get there by year 3.

That doesn't stop Draymond Green from being a Top 15 player. That didn't stop prime Kirilenko from being a Top 15 player.

Jokic is a freak. Great rebounder with CWebb-esche passing and elite positional steal generating. And the jumpshot is real. Once he starts unleashing it at higher volume, he'll be the ultimate threat.

Agreed. I can definitely see him being a top 15 player one day. He reminds me a lot of the Lakers Pau Gasol and some would say he was arguably a top 15 player at the time.

Kobblehead · Post #64 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 9:49 pm

pcbothwel wrote:I hate to have to stick up for my own, but Oubre looks to be the main backup to Otto Porter and I'm a fan.
He's athletic, long, and attacks the basket relentlessly. That with a passable 3pt shot (33%+) makes him viable offensively.

And while his team Defense/IQ will need to improve/mature, his on-ball D can be ferocious. He has quick hands and feet along with a 7'2 wingspan and if locks in on you its like watching PG13, Ariza, etc.

I think he ends up being the best wing in the draft class over Johnson, Winslow, etc.

Good, so you guys will be in good hands when Otto Porter signs our 4 year max offer sheet next summer. :wink:

yoyoboy · Post #65 » by **yoyoboy** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 10:16 pm

cyclix wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Oubre is 6 months older (All 3 are 20), not really a big deal.
Oubre is taller and longer than both. Nothing tweener about him.
And while not as strong, he is more athletic than both.

i also wouldn't say they are more versatile. While they both defend bigs better because of their size, neither have the foot speed to shut down guards like Oubre (All 3 handle themselves against 3's)
Offesnvily, Oubre will not be the passer Johnson is, but he is a better shooter and gets to the FT more than either.

We'll just have to see, but the fact that they all had comparable rookie years, yet Oubre was clearly the most raw and least physically developed of the 3 out of college gives me hope.

Remember, Johnson played 3X as much and Winslow 4X as much. Oubre was buried by Randy Wittman and it was hard for him to get into rhythm

Oubre cannot create his own shot and lacks ballhandling ability to have real offensive potential. His potential is really that of a 3&D wing player. Oubre is like Tayshaun Prince potential.

Stanley is a skilled, multipositional player that can create his own shot while guarding multiple positions. Stanley is like Joe Johnson potential.

Winslow is the same as Stanley, but worse jumpshot and better defense. Winslow is like Draymond Green potential.

Even RHJ is going to be better than Oubre.

Well first of all, Winslow isn't close to the playmaker that Draymond is. Furthermore, I don't think he has the same defensive potential Green does either. Not only is he shorter with a shorter wingspan, but Winslow has never shown even flashes that he can be a legitimate rim protector in the paint similarly to Draymond.

Green is an extreme anomaly as it is. I don't see someone even shorter in Winslow not only being able to handle the PF/C position full time, but to also be the best in the league at that position (like Draymond).

Post #66 » by **Klomp** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 11:38 pm

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0fFbnmLxbk[/youtube]

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #67 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 11:42 pm

Larry Bird said in an interview today that Myles Turner works as hard as anyone he has ever seen in Indiana. Bird isn't one to BS people and called out Granger for his lack of work ethic while he was the face of the team.

Also said that Myles Turner is a lot better than he was at the end of last season. To be expected, but great news.

Sribb43 · Post #68 » by **Sribb43** » Sat Jul 9, 2016 11:11 pm

Watch out for Justin Anderson on the Mavs. He played great down the stretch when Mavs were depleted with injuries and was key for them getting into the playoffs. He also held is own in the OKC series and had a few great moments.

He should get more minutes in 16-17. Mavs could finally run a lineup with 3 legit defenders that arent worthless on Offensive too...Matthews/Barnes/Bogut

islanders11040 · Post #69 » by **islanders11040** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:38 am

Porzingis Full Season offense Highlights + defense

Offense:

Part 1:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO6VuDizrFU[/youtube]

Part 2:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqy_SntKCtQ[/youtube]

Part 3:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaKNL1na8yk[/youtube]

Defense:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHfYUY0jwIk[/youtube]

ElectricMayhem · Post #70 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:37 am

Brapman wrote:For those who haven't read this, Stanley Johnson came to summer league to focus on only working on his weaknesses. He has relatively dramatically changed the mechanics on his shot, and has been working on that for 2.5 months in a gym, not in any scrimmages, and with Pistons coaches always alongside him. He's also been working on using his left hand all the time, and going left. Last year, he only went right. He's sticking with that playing live 5 on 5 in the SL, which is why he's looking awkward at times, and missing a ton of shots. It's a necessary and deliberate setback in his production. Kudos to him for being confident and determined enough to show this off for the first time with every game on nbatv.

For the record, SVG is loving all this, and thinks Stanley is doing exactly the right thing.

I tell anyone who will listen. Stanley Johnson is going to be a force in this league, and a big time leader and winner. Great great draft pick. And, while I want immediate results this season, I totally get that this might take a year of inconsistent play from him in the heat of the battles, before he really takes off. Nothing he's doing right now is second nature to him, yet.

Are there instances of players who have completely made over their mechanics at this late stage and been successful doing so? I'm close to getting my Masters in Applied Linguistics and one thing you learn is the difference between language learning and language acquisition. Acquisition comes from implicit understanding and development of the language - like how we acquire first language speech and listening skills. Learning comes from explicit instruction - basically classroom learning. One reason why people have a hard time sounding native when learning language at an advanced age is that much of the learning is explicit and we don't have that 'knowledge' available to us in our procedural or working memory. Instead, the knowledge is stored as declarative memory that we remember as facts but don't have immediate access to without thinking about it first.

I have no idea how much of a connection there is between language and shooting mechanics, but it's got to be a helluva task to proceduralize the muscle memory for a reworked shot when you have shot the same way for years and years. I understand the notion that fixing his shot in the long run will help him, but are there in fact past examples? Once they get to a certain age is it better to just say "OK, Hank Aaron hit cross-handed, you do it how it's comfortable for you"? I know Stanley is a very determined player and that gives him a leg up - I just hope he doesn't lose his comfort zone without fully acquiring the new form.

ChrisTheFuturePaul · Post #71 » by **ChrisTheFuturePaul** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:43 am

ElectricMayhem wrote:
Brapman wrote:For those who haven't read this, Stanley Johnson came to summer league to focus on only working on his weaknesses. He has relatively dramatically changed the mechanics on his shot, and has been working on that for 2.5 months in a gym, not in any scrimmages, and with Pistons coaches always alongside him. He's also been working on using his left hand all the time, and going left. Last year, he only went right. He's sticking with that playing live 5 on 5 in the SL, which is why he's looking awkward at times, and missing a ton of shots. It's a necessary and deliberate setback in his production. Kudos to him for being confident and determined enough to show this off for the first time with every game on nbatv.

For the record, SVG is loving all this, and thinks Stanley is doing exactly the right thing.

I tell anyone who will listen. Stanley Johnson is going to be a force in this league, and a big time leader and winner. Great great draft pick. And, while I want immediate results this season, I totally get that this might take a year of inconsistent play from him in the heat of the battles, before he really takes off. Nothing he's doing right now is second nature to him, yet.

Are there instances of players who have completely made over their mechanics at this late stage and been successful doing so? I'm close to getting my Masters in Applied Linguistics and one thing you learn is the difference between language learning and language acquisition. Acquisition comes from implicit understanding and development of the language - like how we acquire first language speech and listening skills. Learning comes from explicit instruction - basically classroom learning. One reason why people have a hard time sounding native when learning language at an advanced age is that much of the learning is explicit and we don't have that 'knowledge' available to us in our procedural or working memory. Instead, the knowledge is stored as declarative memory that we remember as facts but don't have immediate access to without thinking about it first.

I have no idea how much of a connection there is between language and shooting mechanics, but it's got to be a helluva task to proceduralize the muscle memory for a reworked shot when you have shot the same way for years and years. I understand the notion that fixing his shot in the long run will help him, but are there in fact past examples? Once they get to a certain age is it better to just say "OK, Hank Aaron hit cross-handed, you do it how it's comfortable for you"? I know Stanley is a very determined player and that gives him a leg up - I just hope he doesn't lose his comfort zone without fully acquiring the new form.

Tyreke Evans made changes to his shooting action last season and bumped up to a 38% 3pt shooter on 3.5 attempts per game. I don't really think its too late tio ever change your mechanics, willingness is the only barrier. Its miles different from speech because shooting is one action repeated, language is thousands of words.

nyk97 · Post #72 » by **nyk97** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:45 pm

Watch on YouTube

Wizop · Post #73 » by **Wizop** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:57 pm

I'm a big Turner fan but I voted for KAT because I'm not a complete homer.

twozeroMM · Post #74 » by **twozeroMM** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:58 pm

I feel like all these players are going to take a big step forward. Honestly hard to choose one.

airaaron32 · Post #75 » by **airaaron32** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:12 pm

Should've made this poll "Besides KAT"

YogurtProducer · Post #76 » by **YogurtProducer** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:27 pm

Who voted for the worst player in the NBA twice?

Post #77 » by **Capn'O** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:50 pm

The best players will be KAT, then Porz.

Jokic may have the biggest year in that he'll go from being well regarded in basketball aficionado circles to becoming a household name.

TurboTitan · Post #78 » by **TurboTitan** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:52 pm

Stanley Johnson.

bape_lovers · Post #79 » by **bape_lovers** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:00 pm

Norman Powell

Hindenburg · Post #80 » by **Hindenburg** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:03 pm

People are sleeping on Russell. He's going to explode this year. He's way more confident, quicker and finally has a good coach/system and no deferring to Kobe

My vote is Russell. With Thibodeau preaching defense and focusing more on guard play, I don't think we'll see KAT put up big numbers