Can The Bucks Get "IT" Back?

[basketballRob]

That Monroe/Parker front court pairing is a disaster.

Monroe won't be on the team and Parker is the SF.

Are they waiving Monroe? Looks like he's untradeable.

[OrangeBlueSkies]

That Monroe/Parker front court pairing is a disaster.

Monroe won't be on the team and Parker is the SF.

Are they waiving Monroe? Looks like he's untradeable.

Monroe for Gay ??

[AussieBuck]

That Monroe/Parker front court pairing is a disaster.

Monroe won't be on the team and Parker is the SF.

Are they waiving Monroe? Looks like he's untradeable.

There's no reason why he'd be untradable. The Bucks will be looking for more he's worth right now but they'll relent and offload him for nothing in the end. It will be the same as what happened with Magloire at the Bucks a decade ago.

[King Close]

Monroe won't be on the team and Parker is the SF.

Are they waiving Monroe? Looks like he's untradeable.

There's no reason why he'd be untradable. The Bucks will be looking for more he's worth right now but they'll relent and offload him for nothing in the end. It will be the same as what happened with Magloire at the Bucks a decade ago.

The rumor is that Monroe is easily available but there's no market for him, he's a young big man with a good offensive game, kinda sad to see him not have a market seeing as if this was a few years ago he'd be a highly sought after player.

[ILOVEIT]

Of all the borderline teams...I think the Bucks are the closest to breaking through
IF
....they don't screw it up. They could add one very good player/vet and be a Eastern Conference Finalist, IMO. You put Westbook on THAT team with that talent....bam....

[ILOVEIT]

Monroe won't be on the team and Parker is the SF.

Are they waiving Monroe? Looks like he's untradeable.

There's no reason why he'd be untradable. The Bucks will be looking for more he's worth right now but they'll relent and offload him for nothing in the end. It will be the same as what happened with Magloire at the Bucks a decade ago.

I think the other reason is .... he's not a two way player or a dominant one way player. AND...I don't think he fits the NEW style of ball....with a though quick PF/center with 3 point range.

Monroe is frankly just too soft.....sort of falls into the David Lee, Kevin Love category.

[Cosmic_Backlash]

I feel like bucks are a really polarizing team because a lot of people like to circlejerk about how great Giannis is and how bad Monroe is.

Facts are Monroe led the bucks in Win Shares, PER, and was 2nd in On/Off Performance. He has his flaws - he's not an elite defensive center, but holy hell it's ridiculous how much centers with an offensive game are hated on because they aren't an elite 2-way player.

Everyone loves Giannis, but nobody ever looks at how he hurts the bucks. He's a terrible outside threat shooting an abysmal 25% from 3. He also didn't shoot above 35% from any range past 5 feet. Let me say that again. He shot 35% or less for every range past 5 feet.

On the other end of the floor while defending past 15 feet opponents shot 2.4% better when defended by him. When guarding the 3 point shot, opponents shot 3.8% better. However, he is an elite interior defender with his long arms, opponents shoot 8% worse in the paint when defended by him.

With this being said, Bucks have a chance to be great - but they need to figure out their outside shooting if they want to succeed. It's just so disappointing seeing so many people say "omg, Giannis is going to be the best" and "Monroe is dragging the whole team down". Open your eyes, look at the good and bad of both players and how the team is constructed. Yeah, the team is long - too bad most of their players have critical flaws while their strengths, at this point time, don't compliment each other. I will say they're lucky they got MIddleton locked up - he's a huge key to their success when they do have it.

Holy cow how wrong you're about this.
Not only Giannis had an FG% of 51 but you totally ignore that the reason why his defensive stats dropped are mainly because he was the only one actually running from a position to another trying to cover everything.
A guard that stays still and lets a guy shoot is not better than another that tries to stop but fails in doing so, the stats are extremely unreliable when it comes to that.
Giannis not being able to shoot doesnt make him responsible for the whole bench sucking balls and being injured. Giannis played in most positions both on defense and offense, he got the most minutes played on the team.
Giannis shot a respectful 36% from 16 feet and 69 from close. Guess what, his most FGs are from 0-3 feet and 16 feet and he did well on both these.

Its nice and all jumping in the wagon of calling him overrated but at least make it more credible for people that watch him all year long.


Giannis was the best player of the team and there is no denying about it.

I never said Giannis was the problem - I said ignoring his flaws is a problem. He clearly is their best player. Overall he knows he can't shoot, so he makes smart decisions taking the majority of his shots inside the paint. That doesn't mean his inability to score from the perimiter isn't a weakness.

My point was that because Monroe doesn't compliment the team doesn't mean he deserves all the blame. By blaming him and ignoring what even the best players problems are is just picking favorites. You're just looking at things with a blind eye. I expect that though coming from someone's whose username is Magic Giannison.

[MiltownHawkeye]

My point was that because Monroe doesn't compliment the team doesn't mean he deserves all the blame. By blaming him and ignoring what even the best players problems are is just picking favorites. You're just looking at things with a blind eye. I expect that though coming from someone's whose username is Magic Giannison.

Did anyone in this thread actually blame all of the team's problems on Monroe? Sounds like a strawman.

[Cosmic_Backlash]

My point was that because Monroe doesn't compliment the team doesn't mean he deserves all the blame. By blaming him and ignoring what even the best players problems are is just picking favorites. You're just looking at things with a blind eye. I expect that though coming from someone's whose username is Magic Giannison.

Did anyone in this thread actually blame all of the team's problems on Monroe? Sounds like a strawman.

Here are some quotes from this thread

Still need to trade Monroe and improve the bench. As of now, my answer is no, even with improvements from Giannis and Jabari. I think they're 9 seed.

They have decent talent but the fit isn't there. I don't like either Monroe or MCW on this roster.

I said from the beginning they were overrated. They got rid of good defenders and brought in poor ones. They have length but no shooters and no real defense stoppers. Monroe needs to be traded asap

They have to do something about Monroe and the C position, otherwise I like they're roster.

That Monroe/Parker front court pairing is a disaster.

Losing the slow turd that is Monroe would be a great start.

They need a legit defensive center that can protect the rim and get rebounds, not a post scorer.
Then they need to give Giannis the ball and the keys to the offense. Surround him with capable shooters and let Jabari be a scorer.
The potential for the team is sky-high with Giannis, Jabari, and Middleton being a young and talented trio. Maker is a wildcard..

think there is any chance that the Bucks would want to trade for Robin Lopez? They'd have to pay Chicago to dump Monroe on them...
Maybe a deal centered around Monroe and a future first?
Would that be enough for you?

Some of these are right in identifying that Monroe is a bad fit, but don't think it's a strawman to saw that people actually blame Monroe...

In addition to that there is a thread on the front page asking how to dump Monroe. It's pretty clear people justify the bucks poor season by blaming Monroe.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Here are some quotes from this thread

Monroe isn't a long-term piece and he's obviously not a fit, so people are correctly pointing out that he should be traded. Not one of your quotes depict anyone saying that he deserved all the blame for all the Bucks problems including Jabari and Giannis still being young and flawed players.

[Magic Giannison]

I feel like bucks are a really polarizing team because a lot of people like to circlejerk about how great Giannis is and how bad Monroe is.

Facts are Monroe led the bucks in Win Shares, PER, and was 2nd in On/Off Performance. He has his flaws - he's not an elite defensive center, but holy hell it's ridiculous how much centers with an offensive game are hated on because they aren't an elite 2-way player.

Everyone loves Giannis, but nobody ever looks at how he hurts the bucks. He's a terrible outside threat shooting an abysmal 25% from 3. He also didn't shoot above 35% from any range past 5 feet. Let me say that again. He shot 35% or less for every range past 5 feet.

On the other end of the floor while defending past 15 feet opponents shot 2.4% better when defended by him. When guarding the 3 point shot, opponents shot 3.8% better. However, he is an elite interior defender with his long arms, opponents shoot 8% worse in the paint when defended by him.

With this being said, Bucks have a chance to be great - but they need to figure out their outside shooting if they want to succeed. It's just so disappointing seeing so many people say "omg, Giannis is going to be the best" and "Monroe is dragging the whole team down". Open your eyes, look at the good and bad of both players and how the team is constructed. Yeah, the team is long - too bad most of their players have critical flaws while their strengths, at this point time, don't compliment each other. I will say they're lucky they got MIddleton locked up - he's a huge key to their success when they do have it.

Holy cow how wrong you're about this.
Not only Giannis had an FG% of 51 but you totally ignore that the reason why his defensive stats dropped are mainly because he was the only one actually running from a position to another trying to cover everything.
A guard that stays still and lets a guy shoot is not better than another that tries to stop but fails in doing so, the stats are extremely unreliable when it comes to that.
Giannis not being able to shoot doesnt make him responsible for the whole bench sucking balls and being injured. Giannis played in most positions both on defense and offense, he got the most minutes played on the team.
Giannis shot a respectful 36% from 16 feet and 69 from close. Guess what, his most FGs are from 0-3 feet and 16 feet and he did well on both these.

Its nice and all jumping in the wagon of calling him overrated but at least make it more credible for people that watch him all year long.


Giannis was the best player of the team and there is no denying about it.

I never said Giannis was the problem - I said ignoring his flaws is a problem. He clearly is their best player. Overall he knows he can't shoot, so he makes smart decisions taking the majority of his shots inside the paint. That doesn't mean his inability to score from the perimiter isn't a weakness.

My point was that because Monroe doesn't compliment the team doesn't mean he deserves all the blame. By blaming him and ignoring what even the best players problems are is just picking favorites. You're just looking at things with a blind eye. I expect that though coming from someone's whose username is Magic Giannison.

Why do you assume we are ignoring his problems,we the Bucks fans are the ones that know his weaknesses better than anyone and we point it out . Just because we praise Giannis like he deserves doesn't mean we ignore his flaws,far from it.
If anything are expecting him way too much to do despise his tremendous improvement rate.

As for Monroe, im agreeing with you, many are dissing him but mainly not because he is responsible for our bad defense but because he is really a bad fit. Sure it may work if Jabari magically because a stud in defense and we play him with a better defender next to him but that would involve not really using his talent like we all know he got.
Our defensive scheme overall was bad and the bench was not helping at all .

Didn't want to come as aggressive its just im getting tired of people calling out Giannis ( not you) and call him overrated over and over when they havent watched him.

[beantownski]

Bucks showed their potential after the all star break in the 14-15 season. that was after they acquired Jared Dudley. His 3 point shooting and veteran leadership is what got the ball rolling for them. they missed that a lot last season. still haven't replaced the 3 point shooting since. maybe g henderson's vet leadership will help though. along with their young players continuing to develop.

[toussaud]

i don't think jason kidd is the coach to get them where they want to go. They need a college coach that will emphisis using the full court to play defense, half court traps, etc make it a 90 foot game. you can't stop the bucks out in transition. too athlete, too long.

not necessarily 48 mins of hell but they need to get up and go. have the freak out on the point half court trapping pg's and speeding the game up. htis is not a team built to play traditional half court basketball

[Dark Faze]

they really needed parker to become a Melo type --kyrie at the PF position, the way he looked at duke

I can't help but to feel he's been horribly developed. A guy like him not shooting threes given what he was doing in college is insane

[AussieBuck]

Are they waiving Monroe? Looks like he's untradeable.

There's no reason why he'd be untradable. The Bucks will be looking for more he's worth right now but they'll relent and offload him for nothing in the end. It will be the same as what happened with Magloire at the Bucks a decade ago.

The rumor is that Monroe is easily available but there's no market for him, he's a young big man with a good offensive game, kinda sad to see him not have a market seeing as if this was a few years ago he'd be a highly sought after player.

No market can mean no market at the Bucks' price tag or more pessimistically no market at the point of giving anything of value for him. He's still easily dumpable IMO. Failing that tie MCW to him.

[skones]

they really needed parker to become a Melo type --kyrie at the PF position, the way he looked at duke

I can't help but to feel he's been horribly developed. A guy like him not shooting threes given what he was doing in college is insane

You'll see him shooting this season.

I disagree with it, but I don't think the logic behind it was terrible. The primary reason is that they wanted the kids to work on getting looks near the rim before they fell in love with the three ball. Use the three ball to compliment their skill set rather than rely upon it. We've seen a lot of guys come through this league, fall in love with the three, and leave their in between game underdeveloped.

[M-C-G]

I feel like bucks are a really polarizing team because a lot of people like to circlejerk about how great Giannis is and how bad Monroe is.

Facts are Monroe led the bucks in Win Shares, PER, and was 2nd in On/Off Performance. He has his flaws - he's not an elite defensive center, but holy hell it's ridiculous how much centers with an offensive game are hated on because they aren't an elite 2-way player.

Everyone loves Giannis, but nobody ever looks at how he hurts the bucks. He's a terrible outside threat shooting an abysmal 25% from 3. He also didn't shoot above 35% from any range past 5 feet. Let me say that again. He shot 35% or less for every range past 5 feet.

On the other end of the floor while defending past 15 feet opponents shot 2.4% better when defended by him. When guarding the 3 point shot, opponents shot 3.8% better. However, he is an elite interior defender with his long arms, opponents shoot 8% worse in the paint when defended by him.

With this being said, Bucks have a chance to be great - but they need to figure out their outside shooting if they want to succeed. It's just so disappointing seeing so many people say "omg, Giannis is going to be the best" and "Monroe is dragging the whole team down". Open your eyes, look at the good and bad of both players and how the team is constructed. Yeah, the team is long - too bad most of their players have critical flaws while their strengths, at this point time, don't compliment each other. I will say they're lucky they got MIddleton locked up - he's a huge key to their success when they do have it.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but would caution you about the underlined. Our scheme basically allows for the most wide open threes in the league, and almost always forces a guy like Giannis to challenge the three coming from inside the paint. I know this doesn't even sound possible, but I assure you it is.

[rasta_marley]

Can anyone speak on why Jabari barely takes any 3's? He seems like a better shooter than someone who took 35 all of last year.

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

then jason kidd is clearly not fit to be an nba coach in the modern game since you need to be able to shoot the 3 (even if he couldn't for most of his career)

However he sure taught himself how to shoot the three when he needed it for those last few years. As a blazer fan I'll attest to that. Really impressed me that he could just go out and do that. Most players either can or can't.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

If they keep drafting 23 year olds masquerading as 19 year olds probably not..

[Spens1]

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

then jason kidd is clearly not fit to be an nba coach in the modern game since you need to be able to shoot the 3 (even if he couldn't for most of his career)

So Doc Rivers telling DeAndre Jordan not to shoot 3's must be a fireable offense too?

If the guy isn't an efficient 3 point shooter than the team is better off with him taking shots the he is more likely to make, or else go with someone who is a more efficient 3 point shooter. Don't take a shot that you are more likely to miss.

there is a huge difference between Jabari (who is closer to a Melo type player than anyone else really in terms of playing style) and DeAndre Jordon who is relatively offensively inept