Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East

Moderators: cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid

Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 26,872
And1: 15,918
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#61 » by Ice Man » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:04 pm

76ciology wrote:Yeah until the fact that they wont be able to match up with Cavs offensive firepower


Bulls are defending much, much better than the Cavs now. But that's a long ways off, for both teams. I'd be surprised if the Bulls got by the Wizards or Hawks, if they advance from this series. Especially the Wiz.
pcbothwel
Head Coach
Posts: 6,197
And1: 2,771
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
     

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#62 » by pcbothwel » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:06 pm

Im just going to keep reposting this:

pcbothwel wrote:Calling it now. Wiz make it to ECF....in 10 games


BTW, I cant wait for the Bulls to beat the Celtics and then all the media bomb throwers (Skip Bayless) to start the "Bulls are clearly the 2nd best team in the East", and "Wade vs Lebron...here we come"

Wiz are on another level and the Cavs better find that switch sooner than later
dlts20
RealGM
Posts: 12,454
And1: 6,195
Joined: Dec 14, 2006

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#63 » by dlts20 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:07 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
RingsDontLie wrote:You guys are telling me that John Wall and Beal are some how a bigger threat than a Butler and Wade with Rhondo playing this well? What am I missing here? What is making the Wizards that much better?

Uhh.. yes. What are you missing? Wall is better than Butler (in terms of his impact/controlling the game) and Beal is better than Wade. Otto Porter is clearly the 3rd best player on either team. And Chicago doesn't have anyone to matchup with Markieff either, he will take Mirotic or their rookie to school



HomoSapien wrote:
Wizards have a versatile starting lineup, but a few things to remember:

The Wizards won the season series 3-1.

Game 1: Bulls won, Wall and Beal didn't play. The Bulls won by eleven.

Game 2: Wizards win by ten. This is about a month before Butler/Wade call out their teammates.

Game 3: Wizards win by two with Butler and Wade both missing the game, and Rondo coming off the bench.

Game 4: Wizards win by five. Wade's injured again for this matchup.

Unfortunately, I don't think we got a fair look at this matchup during the regular season.

It's not gonna be a good matchup for the Bulls. Washington can run Chicago off the floor, they don't have the speed or athletes to keep up.


I agree that Washington is much better than the Bulls, but if you take defense into account, you can't really say that Wall is better than Butler.

The Bulls issues is inconsistency. You can't depend on anyone on the team outside of Butler. Rolo is the only other dependable player but he won't be able to dominate against other teams the way he does against Boston.

Wall made the all nba defense team a couple of years ago and the only reason why he's not now is because he does so much on O that he just won't play hard on D all the time but when he's locked in, he is still one of the elite defensive players in the league bar none. Butler is awesome though
Cowbulls
Rookie
Posts: 1,196
And1: 888
Joined: Jun 06, 2010

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#64 » by Cowbulls » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:10 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
kodo wrote:Wizards.

But the Bulls are 7-1 vs the Cavs last two seasons. Bulls are above .500 vs CLE/BOS/GS/SAS combined.
TNT Bulls are probably more dangerous to top seeds than your average 8th seed.


The Bulls have been beating Lebron in the regular season and losing to him in the playoffs since before he took his talents to South Beach.


This is the worst argument I see on this board and it comes up daily. I don't think the Bulls or anyone in the East for that matter can beat the Cavs but let me point out a very flawed fact in your terrible post.

Mirotic
Butler

Those are the ONLY 2 players on the Bulls roster that took the Cavs to 6 two years ago. Your post is ALMOST the same as saying the 76ers and Lakers would have made it to the finals if they both made the playoffs because, well...they both did in 2001. Your post is lazy. Venture out....don't be a lazy poster. :wink:
Illmatic12
RealGM
Posts: 10,161
And1: 8,459
Joined: Dec 20, 2013
 

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#65 » by Illmatic12 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:19 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
RingsDontLie wrote:You guys are telling me that John Wall and Beal are some how a bigger threat than a Butler and Wade with Rhondo playing this well? What am I missing here? What is making the Wizards that much better?

Uhh.. yes. What are you missing? Wall is better than Butler (in terms of his impact/controlling the game) and Beal is better than Wade. Otto Porter is clearly the 3rd best player on either team. And Chicago doesn't have anyone to matchup with Markieff either, he will take Mirotic or their rookie to school



HomoSapien wrote:
Wizards have a versatile starting lineup, but a few things to remember:

The Wizards won the season series 3-1.

Game 1: Bulls won, Wall and Beal didn't play. The Bulls won by eleven.

Game 2: Wizards win by ten. This is about a month before Butler/Wade call out their teammates.

Game 3: Wizards win by two with Butler and Wade both missing the game, and Rondo coming off the bench.

Game 4: Wizards win by five. Wade's injured again for this matchup.

Unfortunately, I don't think we got a fair look at this matchup during the regular season.

It's not gonna be a good matchup for the Bulls. Washington can run Chicago off the floor, they don't have the speed or athletes to keep up.


I agree that Washington is much better than the Bulls, but if you take defense into account, you can't really say that Wall is better than Butler.

The Bulls issues is inconsistency. You can't depend on anyone on the team outside of Butler. Rolo is the only other dependable player but he won't be able to dominate against other teams the way he does against Boston.

Wall is a great defender as well. That said I think both Butler and Wall tend to be highly underrated by casual fans and it's basically close to a wash between the two.

But imo Wall's ability to score as well as control the pace of a game with his speed+playmaking is an advantage that will put him over Butler in a hypothetical series.
NZB2323
RealGM
Posts: 14,040
And1: 10,648
Joined: Aug 02, 2008

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#66 » by NZB2323 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:21 pm

Cowbulls wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
kodo wrote:Wizards.

But the Bulls are 7-1 vs the Cavs last two seasons. Bulls are above .500 vs CLE/BOS/GS/SAS combined.
TNT Bulls are probably more dangerous to top seeds than your average 8th seed.


The Bulls have been beating Lebron in the regular season and losing to him in the playoffs since before he took his talents to South Beach.


This is the worst argument I see on this board and it comes up daily. I don't think the Bulls or anyone in the East for that matter can beat the Cavs but let me point out a very flawed fact in your terrible post.

Mirotic
Butler

Those are the ONLY 2 players on the Bulls roster that took the Cavs to 6 two years ago. Your post is ALMOST the same as saying the 76ers and Lakers would have made it to the finals if they both made the playoffs because, well...they both did in 2001. Your post is lazy. Venture out....don't be a lazy poster. :wink:


My point is that beating Lebron in the regular season isn't an indicator of having postseason success with him. I've sick of people saying the Bulls match up well against Lebron because they beat him in the regular season.
Cowbulls
Rookie
Posts: 1,196
And1: 888
Joined: Jun 06, 2010

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#67 » by Cowbulls » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:36 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
The Bulls have been beating Lebron in the regular season and losing to him in the playoffs since before he took his talents to South Beach.


This is the worst argument I see on this board and it comes up daily. I don't think the Bulls or anyone in the East for that matter can beat the Cavs but let me point out a very flawed fact in your terrible post.

Mirotic
Butler

Those are the ONLY 2 players on the Bulls roster that took the Cavs to 6 two years ago. Your post is ALMOST the same as saying the 76ers and Lakers would have made it to the finals if they both made the playoffs because, well...they both did in 2001. Your post is lazy. Venture out....don't be a lazy poster. :wink:


My point is that beating Lebron in the regular season isn't an indicator of having postseason success with him.


You're right it doesn't but LeBron has never played this Bulls team in the playoffs. Currently this Bulls team is 3-0 vs him ( he sat out one game ) If the Bulls still had Rose, Noah and Taj then I'd totally agree with you. LeBron owned the Rose and Noah teams that's the truth. He's yet to beat the Butler, Wade, Rondo and Lopez team.
NZB2323
RealGM
Posts: 14,040
And1: 10,648
Joined: Aug 02, 2008

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#68 » by NZB2323 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:41 pm

Cowbulls wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:
This is the worst argument I see on this board and it comes up daily. I don't think the Bulls or anyone in the East for that matter can beat the Cavs but let me point out a very flawed fact in your terrible post.

Mirotic
Butler

Those are the ONLY 2 players on the Bulls roster that took the Cavs to 6 two years ago. Your post is ALMOST the same as saying the 76ers and Lakers would have made it to the finals if they both made the playoffs because, well...they both did in 2001. Your post is lazy. Venture out....don't be a lazy poster. :wink:


My point is that beating Lebron in the regular season isn't an indicator of having postseason success with him.


You're right it doesn't but LeBron has never played this Bulls team in the playoffs. Currently this Bulls team is 3-0 vs him ( he sat out one game ) If the Bulls still had Rose, Noah and Taj then I'd totally agree with you. LeBron owned the Rose and Noah teams that's the truth. He's yet to beat the Butler, Wade, Rondo and Lopez team.


You're making the exact same argument people were making for the Bulls in 2011.
User avatar
Throwback24
RealGM
Posts: 31,072
And1: 41,652
Joined: Jun 17, 2008

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#69 » by Throwback24 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:42 pm

dlts20 wrote:
Throwback24 wrote:
dlts20 wrote:They lost game 1 and were just tied with a minute and change left in game 2, both at home in a match up that everyone thought that the Raps would dominate. It's ok to pick the Raps but to say that it's not even close is ridiculous


We're talking about a team that wins 50+ games per year, has one of the best starting 5 line ups in the lg, a top tier coach, continuity, playoff experience, and depth.

I would be foolish to say any other EC team are in a better position to push the Cavs than the team that actually did it in last years conference finals, the Raptors.

You didn't push the Cavs. You won 2 games after they got bored and complacent. You were literally blown out in the other 4 games. That's why no one took your 2 wins seriously


Basketball reference shows the Cavs won 4-2. What are we talking about bro?
Remember when’ is the lowest form of conversation.
Cowbulls
Rookie
Posts: 1,196
And1: 888
Joined: Jun 06, 2010

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#70 » by Cowbulls » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:50 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
My point is that beating Lebron in the regular season isn't an indicator of having postseason success with him.


You're right it doesn't but LeBron has never played this Bulls team in the playoffs. Currently this Bulls team is 3-0 vs him ( he sat out one game ) If the Bulls still had Rose, Noah and Taj then I'd totally agree with you. LeBron owned the Rose and Noah teams that's the truth. He's yet to beat the Butler, Wade, Rondo and Lopez team.


You're making the exact same argument people were making for the Bulls in 2011.


I'm pretty sure I'm not. Those peoples arguments probably had the Bulls beating the Cavs in the playoffs. I'm arguing that your post " Lebron always beats the bulls in the playoffs" is lazy because it is. Lebron always beat the 2010-2015 Bulls. He has NEVER played this Bulls team in the playoffs. I could say LeBron owns the Lakers in the playoffs and it would be as true as your original post.
NZB2323
RealGM
Posts: 14,040
And1: 10,648
Joined: Aug 02, 2008

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#71 » by NZB2323 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:53 pm

Cowbulls wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:
You're right it doesn't but LeBron has never played this Bulls team in the playoffs. Currently this Bulls team is 3-0 vs him ( he sat out one game ) If the Bulls still had Rose, Noah and Taj then I'd totally agree with you. LeBron owned the Rose and Noah teams that's the truth. He's yet to beat the Butler, Wade, Rondo and Lopez team.


You're making the exact same argument people were making for the Bulls in 2011.


I'm pretty sure I'm not. Those peoples arguments probably had the Bulls beating the Cavs in the playoffs. I'm arguing that your post " Lebron always beats the bulls in the playoffs" is lazy because it is. Lebron always beat the 2010-2015 Bulls. He has NEVER played this Bulls team in the playoffs. I could say LeBron owns the Lakers in the playoffs and it would be as true as your original post.


Team X beat Lebron in the regular season, so they'd beat him in the playoffs is a lazy argument that has been proven to be false.
tidho
General Manager
Posts: 9,621
And1: 3,161
Joined: Jun 12, 2009

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#72 » by tidho » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:00 pm

RaptorsLife wrote:I think it's

Wizards
Bulls
Raptors
Bucks

In that order. Raptors have to play much much better if they want a chance. Wizards offense really can damage on cavs defense.

Bulls right behind them. Bucks are much better than I expected too


I think all four can beat Cleveland this year, and expect Cleveland to lose in the ECF.
They simply don't defend well enough, and the EC isn't given enough credit. Those are really good teams.
User avatar
RaptorsLife
RealGM
Posts: 49,248
And1: 84,017
Joined: Feb 16, 2015
Location: Brampton
   

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#73 » by RaptorsLife » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:02 pm

tidho wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:I think it's

Wizards
Bulls
Raptors
Bucks

In that order. Raptors have to play much much better if they want a chance. Wizards offense really can damage on cavs defense.

Bulls right behind them. Bucks are much better than I expected too


I think all four can beat Cleveland this year, and expect Cleveland to lose in the ECF.
They simply don't defend well enough, and the EC isn't given enough credit. Those are really good teams.

The bottom 3 is super underrated. Pacers, bucks and bulls. All 3 have a star who can play like a superstar and win a series
Raptors til death
JordansBulls
RealGM
Posts: 60,466
And1: 5,345
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#74 » by JordansBulls » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:07 pm

Dupp wrote:Bulls aren't very good. Wizards are the biggest threat.

Bulls and celtics would be the two easiest teams.

We whooped you guys 4-0 this season. Bulls just suck against average to mediocre teams
Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,628
And1: 1,905
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#75 » by PlayerUp » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:08 pm

Coxy wrote:None of them are coming close. Sweep to the finals.


Then be swept themselves.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,717
And1: 26,735
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#76 » by 76ciology » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:17 pm

Ice Man wrote:
76ciology wrote:Yeah until the fact that they wont be able to match up with Cavs offensive firepower


Bulls are defending much, much better than the Cavs now. But that's a long ways off, for both teams. I'd be surprised if the Bulls got by the Wizards or Hawks, if they advance from this series. Especially the Wiz.


Yeah they defend until they see how Cavs space the floor and score
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Cowbulls
Rookie
Posts: 1,196
And1: 888
Joined: Jun 06, 2010

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#77 » by Cowbulls » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:28 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
You're making the exact same argument people were making for the Bulls in 2011.


I'm pretty sure I'm not. Those peoples arguments probably had the Bulls beating the Cavs in the playoffs. I'm arguing that your post " Lebron always beats the bulls in the playoffs" is lazy because it is. Lebron always beat the 2010-2015 Bulls. He has NEVER played this Bulls team in the playoffs. I could say LeBron owns the Lakers in the playoffs and it would be as true as your original post.


Team X beat Lebron in the regular season, so they'd beat him in the playoffs is a lazy argument that has been proven to be false.


That's not lazy that's just dumb. Lebron is the best player in the league and he should be in the finals fairly easily once again. What I'm essentially trying to do here is make you a non lazy poster. Instead of, "Lebron has proven he will beat the Bulls in the playoffs."(lazy & not really true because this is a completely different Bulls team that he's beaten) Try... "Even though Lebron has yet to beat this new look Bulls team in the regular season, Lebron has proven that he steps up in the playoffs and should be able to beat the Bulls and any other Eastern conference team in a best of 7 series." ( not lazy and true )
G35
RealGM
Posts: 22,510
And1: 8,066
Joined: Dec 10, 2005
     

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#78 » by G35 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:44 pm

RingsDontLie wrote:Its Wade's ability to close out games that elevates the bulls in my mind especially when were talking about playoff basketball.


I've seen Wade matched up against a Lebron team. Whenever the games get tight, Lebron matches up on Wade and shuts him down. Lebron does this vs all the other EC playoff teams and it works every time. This is why none of the other teams have a chance. You have to have a player that can: a) beat Lebron one on one, or b) occupy Lebron with your superstar and the rest of your team exploits weaknesses in the other Cavs defenders.

smokeylarue wrote:Can't believe it hasn't been said yet. Bulls swept the Cavs this season 4-0. They absolutely are a threat, but I doubt the Bulls get past Washington.



I'm pretty sure the Hawks swept the Cavs a few years ago and then the Cavs swept them in the playoffs. The Bulls are usually good against the Cavs in the RS and it does not translate in the playoffs. Wizards have been trying to beat a Lebron team since DeShawn Stevenson in 2006.

The biggest threat to the Cavs is some internal conflict ala Delonte West.......
I'm so tired of the typical......
User avatar
sfam
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,462
And1: 548
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
         

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#79 » by sfam » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:46 pm

Throwback24 wrote:
dlts20 wrote:
Throwback24 wrote:100% the Raptors. I don't think it's debatable either.

They lost game 1 and were just tied with a minute and change left in game 2, both at home in a match up that everyone thought that the Raps would dominate. It's ok to pick the Raps but to say that it's not even close is ridiculous


We're talking about a team that wins 50+ games per year, has one of the best starting 5 line ups in the lg, a top tier coach, continuity, playoff experience, and depth.

I would be foolish to say any other EC team are in a better position to push the Cavs than the team that actually did it in last years conference finals, the Raptors.

I think most see the Wizards as a greater threat, so its clearly debatable. Raptors should be playing better than they are. If they are having this much trouble with a very young and inexperienced Milwaukee team, I'm not seeing Cleveland at risk. That said, Ibaka has really changed that team.
smallgains
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,466
And1: 1,370
Joined: Dec 04, 2014

Re: Bulls biggest threat to Cavs in East 

Post#80 » by smallgains » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:46 pm

I'd worry about finishing off the Celtics first and then running into the Wizards. They are looking sharp so far...

Return to The General Board