2017 Isaiah Thomas is better than any version of Iverson.

[omaro34]

IT this year is better than Iverson ever was. He's way more efficient, a much better shooter, he actually makes his teammates better, better passer, he always looks like he knows what he's doing and has the game under control, higher BB IQ, and more clutch than almost anybody.

I also don't want to hear anything about IT benefiting from the era he played in over Iverson, when I had to constantly here people say Iverson was mostly able to do what he did while he was playing because "the big man was dieing out", "the rule change in 00-01 and beyond", "the NBA being weak in talent in the early 00's", ect ... People will always come up with some excuse why a current generation player can't be better than a past one, but it usually holds little weight especially in this case.

I watched Iverson his whole career and as good as he was I never though he could make any shot and come up big in any moment. With IT I would never bet against him ... too beast and too clutch. Iverson was more Westbrook where he will shoot you out of a game just as quick as he could win you one. Way too sporadic.

Iverson had to play against elite elite centers like prime Shaq, when IT drives to the lane he doesn't have to worry about monster big men like that.

[Clyde Frazier]

Would be pretty interesting to see what iverson’s career arc would look like if he came into the league 10 years later. I’m not an iverson fan by any means, just curiosity as a general fan.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Let's just put it this way: If both were in the league right now, and the same age, who would be viewed as better? That answers your question.

So once again perception and popularity determine who is better?

[OkcSinceSGA]

IT this year is better than Iverson ever was. He's way more efficient, a much better shooter, he actually makes his teammates better, better passer, he always looks like he knows what he's doing and has the game under control, higher BB IQ, and more clutch than almost anybody.

I also don't want to hear anything about IT benefiting from the era he played in over Iverson, when I had to constantly here people say Iverson was mostly able to do what he did while he was playing because "the big man was dieing out", "the rule change in 00-01 and beyond", "the NBA being weak in talent in the early 00's", ect ... People will always come up with some excuse why a current generation player can't be better than a past one, but it usually holds little weight especially in this case.

I watched Iverson his whole career and as good as he was I never though he could make any shot and come up big in any moment. With IT I would never bet against him ... too beast and too clutch. Iverson was more Westbrook where he will shoot you out of a game just as quick as he could win you one. Way too sporadic.

Iverson had to play against elite elite centers like prime Shaq, when IT drives to the lane he doesn't have to worry about monster big men like that.

I'd argue there are more quality defensive anchor big men now than in Iverson's era.

[RaptorRed]

This thread isn't easy for me. On a personal level I'm team Iverson. I like IT but I'm not a huge fan or anything. I just want to address the unfair treatment he's getting. A 5'8 player just averaged 30 ppg on 60% TS while leading his team to the 1 seed over LeBron. It should be a bigger story than it is.

Thomas was a healthy Rondo away from being swept by an 8 seed and now all of a sudden he is leading his team over LeBron lol. The celtics might even trade Thomas if they get the first pick. That's how good he is. He will never win an MVP , I don't even see him making the Hall of Fame. This thread is insane. Can we delete it if Thomas gets swept by LeBron ?

[OkcSinceSGA]

This thread isn't easy for me. On a personal level I'm team Iverson. I like IT but I'm not a huge fan or anything. I just want to address the unfair treatment he's getting. A 5'8 player just averaged 30 ppg on 60% TS while leading his team to the 1 seed over LeBron. It should be a bigger story than it is.

Funny how people always try to make short players sound even shorter, by referring to their barefoot height (when most players are listed in shoes - not IT, he's 5'9" barefoot but listed at 5'9"), or in this case taking another inch off.

IT is 5'8" (one inch off his barefoot height) like Conley is 5'11" (one inch off his barefoot height) or Curry is 6'1" (one inch off his barefoot height).

Still incredible that IT is doing this at 5'10" in shoes but no need to embellish.

He looks tiny and I legit thought he was 5'8. I was probably mixing barefoot vs with shoes, but anyway he's extremely small man. CP3 looks big next to him.

[OkcSinceSGA]

This thread isn't easy for me. On a personal level I'm team Iverson. I like IT but I'm not a huge fan or anything. I just want to address the unfair treatment he's getting. A 5'8 player just averaged 30 ppg on 60% TS while leading his team to the 1 seed over LeBron. It should be a bigger story than it is.

Thomas was a healthy Rondo away from being swept by an 8 seed and now all of a sudden he is leading his team over LeBron lol. The celtics might even trade Thomas if they get the first pick. That's how good he is. He will never win an MVP , I don't even see him making the Hall of Fame. This thread is insance. Can we delete it if Thomas gets swept by LeBron ?

I'm basing this entirely off regular season. Although yes, IT has helped his case in these playoffs, thanks for reminding me. You're assuming Rondo would of continued his huge play, funny considering he hasn't done this in like 4 years. People were rightfully shocked that Rondo was actually contributing. Are we going to ignore fact that IT is also out playing the crap out of Wall now?

[bwgood77]

No, Iverson in this era with the current rules would be on another level. Remember he played in a slow paced era with hand checking and 7 foot shot blockers lurking in the paint.

I think 3 point shooting is too important in this era to say Iverson would be on another level. He only eclipsed 35% once and was a career 31% 3 pt shooter, often shooting sub 30%.

He might be better at what he did, but due to his not so great efficiency (TS% 51.8% compared to IT's 58.5% career but 62.5% this year).

[Vee-Rex]

Iverson was getting sent to the floor whenever he went to the paint while Isaiah gets a foul call for getting looked at. Denying the rule changes and difference in physicality that favors perimeter players today compared to one of the most brutal defensive eras in basketball is just absurd.

This.

Let me preface my statement by saying: I think Iverson was overrated and I have no issue with comparing current IT to Allen Iverson.

With that said, I watched last night's game and it was remarkable how defenders were cowering in fear whenever IT barrelled into the paint. I wonder just how much more efficient Iverson would've been if the lane parted like the red sea whenever he drove inside.

No matter how you try to slice it, today's era is extremely beneficial for smaller guards like IT than it was 10-15 years ago.

[OkcSinceSGA]

No, Iverson in this era with the current rules would be on another level. Remember he played in a slow paced era with hand checking and 7 foot shot blockers lurking in the paint.

I think 3 point shooting is too important in this era to say Iverson would be on another level. He only eclipsed 35% once and was a career 31% 3 pt shooter, often shooting sub 30%.

He might be better at what he did, but due to his not so great efficiency (TS% 51.8% compared to IT's 58.5% career but 62.5% this year).

As mentioned earlier and now by you, his lack of shooting ability is a detriment in this current league. Iverson is getting praised basically for being reckless ("tough") and inefficient ("carrying teams). IT is a much smarter player, that's a good thing.

[RaptorRed]

This thread isn't easy for me. On a personal level I'm team Iverson. I like IT but I'm not a huge fan or anything. I just want to address the unfair treatment he's getting. A 5'8 player just averaged 30 ppg on 60% TS while leading his team to the 1 seed over LeBron. It should be a bigger story than it is.

Thomas was a healthy Rondo away from being swept by an 8 seed and now all of a sudden he is leading his team over LeBron lol. The celtics might even trade Thomas if they get the first pick. That's how good he is. He will never win an MVP , I don't even see him making the Hall of Fame. This thread is insance. Can we delete it if Thomas gets swept by LeBron ?

I'm basing this entirely off regular season. Although yes, IT has helped his case in these playoffs, thanks for reminding me. You're assuming Rondo would of continued his huge play, funny considering he hasn't done this in like 4 years. People were rightfully shocked that Rondo was actually contributing. Are we going to ignore fact that IT is also out playing the crap out of Wall now?

I struggle to see how someone can watch Iverson play in his era , watch Thomas play in this soft era , and logically conclude to Thomas being better. It's not even close. The hate on Iverson is astonishing considering everything he has done for the game.

Who else is better than iverson ? wall ? lowry ? irving ? all 3 ? soon we will have people saying kemba is better

[Dennis 37]

This is what is wrong with the NBA fan. It matters not whether your favourite player is deemed superior to some star of the past or present. You care, but few others do. Quality rises to the top regardless of the fanboys crying for recognition. If IT is as good as Iverson, a debate I couldn't possibly care less about, then during the rest of his career that recognition will happen. If he is not, it won't. How many tier 1 stars go unnoticed in this league?

Sent from my SM-T530NU using RealGM mobile app

[slothrop8]

Offensively it's pretty clear to me 2017 IT was better than any version of Iverson. However, the original post is a little too dismissive of the defensive end of the floor. The advanced defensive metrics are still evolving in my opinion - but the one's we do have suggest IT is an abysmal defender and my personal eye test agrees. AI had good defenders around him in the early 2000s - but he still played a ton of minutes on some really good defensive teams. In the interest of full disclosure, I strongly dislike both of these players - so I'm reasonably unbiased I would say. I would perhaps lean toward 2017 IT, but I do worry I'm undervaluing how great a defensive detriment IT can be.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Iverson was getting sent to the floor whenever he went to the paint while Isaiah gets a foul call for getting looked at. Denying the rule changes and difference in physicality that favors perimeter players today compared to one of the most brutal defensive eras in basketball is just absurd.

This.

Let me preface my statement by saying: I think Iverson was overrated and I have no issue with comparing current IT to Allen Iverson.

With that said, I watched last night's game and it was remarkable how defenders were cowering in fear whenever IT barrelled into the paint. I wonder just how much more efficient Iverson would've been if the lane parted like the red sea whenever he drove inside.

No matter how you try to slice it, today's era is extremely beneficial for smaller guards like IT than it was 10-15 years ago.

I saw something else. IT has Harden's almost exclusive gift of rapid deceleration. He starts to drive and stops so fast that the defenders are almost always off balance. I don't think it's fear to foul him, they legit lack the foot speed to guard him and he's phenomenal of using screens to get switches. Half of his points last night seemed to be in these situations.

I don't watch him and feel like I do with Harden where he is taking shots to get fouls instead of shooting to actually score. Again if hard fouls is the argument why did Steve Nash do this so much more efficiently?

[bmurph128]

I don't think so.

And this is purely subjective, as I realize that the stats point to IT. But so many of his free throws are bogus to me, and it accounts for a lot of his TS%

Iverson shot a lot of free throws too...but I just consider those to be "earned". Doesn't make much sense I guess.

Also, AI played A LOT more minutes. Idk...I just can't put IT up there.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Thomas was a healthy Rondo away from being swept by an 8 seed and now all of a sudden he is leading his team over LeBron lol. The celtics might even trade Thomas if they get the first pick. That's how good he is. He will never win an MVP , I don't even see him making the Hall of Fame. This thread is insance. Can we delete it if Thomas gets swept by LeBron ?

I'm basing this entirely off regular season. Although yes, IT has helped his case in these playoffs, thanks for reminding me. You're assuming Rondo would of continued his huge play, funny considering he hasn't done this in like 4 years. People were rightfully shocked that Rondo was actually contributing. Are we going to ignore fact that IT is also out playing the crap out of Wall now?

I struggle to see how someone can watch Iverson play in his era , watch Thomas play in this soft era , and logically conclude to Thomas being better. It's not even close. The hate on Iverson is astonishing considering everything he has done for the game.

Who else is better than iverson ? wall ? lowry ? irving ? all 3 ? soon we will have people saying kemba is better

Read again. I'm saying his 2017 season is better than any Iverson season, not that he's more talented or better as a whole. I just don't get why IT isn't even top 10 player THIS year for many, while Iverson is many people's hero. It's illogical.

[CarMalone]

Something worth pointing out- Iverson's numbers were benefited from heavy usage.
He averaged 41.1 mpg in his career on 31.8% usage. During his MVP year, his per36 points per game was 26.7 which would rank 13th in the NBA this year. His career per36 ppg is 23.3.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Offensively it's pretty clear to me 2017 IT was better than any version of Iverson. However, the original post is a little too dismissive of the defensive end of the floor. The advanced defensive metrics are still evolving in my opinion - but the one's we do have suggest IT is an abysmal defender and my personal eye test agrees. AI had good defenders around him in the early 2000s - but he still played a ton of minutes on some really good defensive teams. In the interest of full disclosure, I strongly dislike both of these players - so I'm reasonably unbiased I would say. I would perhaps lean toward 2017 IT, but I do worry I'm undervaluing how great a defensive detriment IT can be.

You may also be overrating the value of PG defense.

[sixerswillrule]

This thread isn't easy for me. On a personal level I'm team Iverson. I like IT but I'm not a huge fan or anything. I just want to address the unfair treatment he's getting. A 5'8 player just averaged 30 ppg on 60% TS while leading his team to the 1 seed over LeBron. It should be a bigger story than it is.

Funny how people always try to make short players sound even shorter, by referring to their barefoot height (when most players are listed in shoes - not IT, he's 5'9" barefoot but listed at 5'9"), or in this case taking another inch off.

IT is 5'8" (one inch off his barefoot height) like Conley is 5'11" (one inch off his barefoot height) or Curry is 6'1" (one inch off his barefoot height).

Still incredible that IT is doing this at 5'10" in shoes but no need to embellish.

He looks tiny and I legit thought he was 5'8. I was probably mixing barefoot vs with shoes, but anyway he's extremely small man. CP3 looks big next to him.

Paul is another one listed barefoot. He's 6'1" in shoes so he has three inches on IT.

[RaptorRed]

I'm basing this entirely off regular season. Although yes, IT has helped his case in these playoffs, thanks for reminding me. You're assuming Rondo would of continued his huge play, funny considering he hasn't done this in like 4 years. People were rightfully shocked that Rondo was actually contributing. Are we going to ignore fact that IT is also out playing the crap out of Wall now?

I struggle to see how someone can watch Iverson play in his era , watch Thomas play in this soft era , and logically conclude to Thomas being better. It's not even close. The hate on Iverson is astonishing considering everything he has done for the game.

Who else is better than iverson ? wall ? lowry ? irving ? all 3 ? soon we will have people saying kemba is better

Read again. I'm saying his 2017 season is better than any Iverson season, not that he's more talented or better as a whole. I just don't get why IT isn't even top 10 player THIS year for many, while Iverson is many people's hero. It's illogical.

there's a thread just started saying Thomas is a superstar and you are calling him underrated...