How good is Jokic? [Poll added]

[lars_rosenberg]

Something aint adding up...

If hes THIS good then people would be making more noise for a Kyrie trade. Stars need stars. StaRs crave stars. Ask Towns, ask AD.

Kyrie + Milsap (not a star but solid) + depth + "about to be top 5 player" would be a title contender.

If you give Milsap + Kyrie + depth to Lebron, Kwahi, Harden, Curry, Durant, etc it = contender, so why not Jokic?

Answer: Because he's not on that level. Slow down.

Jokic is not on that level? Have you watched him play? Could it be that we realize that Kyrie is overrated and thinks more of himself than the rest of us do?

The Nuggets already had the top offense in the league after they inserted Jokic in at starting Center there was a graph on this board a few days ago showing how much each player improved with and without Jokic and it is eye opening. Irving is a PG but he is also a chucker and wants to be the big star of the team. We do not need a guy like that, we got a great fit this summer in Millsap who is happy to play on or off the ball and does not care about who gets the credit.

Jokic is still young, no need to add a big name that does not fit and does nothing to fix the weaknesses of the team, if we were talking about a guy like Chris Paul than I am good with it, I wanted Paul George badly but the front office did not feel like he would stay due to the LA thing, but Kyrie I am not all that interested in unless it is for very cheap.

Again, something aint adding up

Jokic: omg he makes the Nuggets have the GREATEST OFFENSE EVER. He's a beast!!

Kyrie: All he does is score. He's overrrated

Buuuuut, the Nuggets had the #3 scoring offense in the league and guess who was right behind them at #4...........Cleveland.

Do you know a guy called LeBron James?

[Yuri Vaultin]

If James Harden can win with Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, and Clint Capela, Nikola Jokic better LEAD his team to a top 4 seed this year or yall got some explaining to do.

I fear Jokic is gonna go from underrated to OVERrated very quickly.

Oh, you seem reasonable.

So, if 27 year old Harden can lead a team of seasoned vets including Ryan Anderson, Ariza, Gordon, Beverley, and Williams then a 21 year old Jokic, playing with a 20 year old Murray, a 21 year old Mudiay, 22 year old in Gary Harris should do the same?

Fact is, Jokic is the best thing since sliced bread and makes EVERYONE on his team better... and is only 21! Jokic is years away from reaching his full potential - just wait until he actually gets in shape.

[Wolfgang630]

So everyone's case for him is his offensive efficiency? How about his team's win? Great players are NOT judged by PER and team offense rate Ie I dont see James Harden judged soley on offense, in fact i more often than not see it ignored.

If James Harden can win with Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, and Clint Capela, Nikola Jokic better LEAD his team to a top 4 seed this year or yall got some explaining to do.

I fear Jokic is gonna go from underrated to OVERrated very quickly.

You seem mad and completely clueless. Every point flies over you're head lmao

He's crazy good at 21.

[Cormag001]

So everyone's case for him is his offensive efficiency? How about his team's win? Great players are NOT judged by PER and team offense rate Ie I dont see James Harden judged soley on offense, in fact i more often than not see it ignored.

If James Harden can win with Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, and Clint Capela, Nikola Jokic better LEAD his team to a top 4 seed this year or yall got some explaining to do.

I fear Jokic is gonna go from underrated to OVERrated very quickly.

Dude, you do realize that Jokic has only started for 2/3 of a season his ENTIRE CARRER, right? You also realize that evaluating team success when a player is 21 years of age is not a good way to evaluate the talent of the player?

The team was obviously better once Jokic took the starting position. And with who? Gallinari and a raw Jamal Murray as your primary perimeter threats? If Denver were able to field a more competent playoff team, Jokic would be the perfect leader for them. I think you'll see that this season.

[Bobalob]

Everyone, thanks for making my point: he's NOT a top 5 player right now. Or top 10.

Top 10 is reserved for guys who are ALREADY there. With no asterisks, no special instructions of how to view them

So, again, calm down. Quite a few of you said he's ALREADY that good. He's not.

Dont call me when you're in my town, call me when you're on my BLOCK

[naabzor]

Everyone, thanks for making my point: he's NOT a top 5 player right now. Or top 10.

Top 10 is reserved for guys who are ALREADY there. With no asterisks, no special instructions of how to view them

So, again, calm down. Quite a few of you said he's ALREADY that good. He's not.

Dont call me when you're in my town, call me when you're on my BLOCK

You know that he averaged 17 - 10 - 5 in 28 minutes last season. Per 36 he is projected 21.6 - 12.7 - 6.3. He had a 26 PER. So he is projected as a top 3 offensive big in the league right now. Can he sustain this number? Judging by the end of last season... yeah, absolutely. He was dominating on 30 minutes a night.

[Dan Z]

He's pretty good for a 2nd round pick.

[Bobalob]

Everyone, thanks for making my point: he's NOT a top 5 player right now. Or top 10.

Top 10 is reserved for guys who are ALREADY there. With no asterisks, no special instructions of how to view them

So, again, calm down. Quite a few of you said he's ALREADY that good. He's not.

Dont call me when you're in my town, call me when you're on my BLOCK

You know that he averaged 17 - 10 - 5 in 28 minutes last season. Per 36 he is projected 21.6 - 12.7 - 6.3. He had a 26 PER. So he is projected as a top 3 offensive big in the league right now. Can he sustain this number? Judging by the end of last season... yeah, absolutely. He was dominating on 30 minutes a night.

Great! Wonderful. Thats...thats really great He's still not better than AD, Towns, or Cousins as far as bigs. They put up ACTUAL 25 and 12 with blocks and/or assists, not no per36, and its an afterthought. Because they are ALREADY. STARS. There's no 'omg look at those numbers!' reaction. There's no 'oh no no no you gotta loOk at the analyticS...and the last 20 games....and if he had a SF'

And he's obviously not better than Bron, Durant, Curry, Kwahi, Harden, Russ, or Giannis.

So that places him outside the top 10. Which is just the point im making. He and his nuthuggers need to 'stay in their lane' He's a very exciting player for sure but keep it at that. Because when you start comparing him to guys who are ALREADY elite, its a whole different ballgame and he comes up short.

Mod edit:
---"Nutthuggers" Stop baiting and trolling.
-Dirk

[UcanUwill]

Towns > Jokic is very debatable. Towns has insane regular stats, but he also has some of the worst advanced defensive stats.

[Knicks Byke]

Chris Webber is a guy who was very similar to Jokic. Not quite the passer Jokic is but certainly a very efficient big who could pass the ball. Webbert was a better athlete and defender than Jokic.

so theyre not very similar then.

[12footrim]

Everyone, thanks for making my point: he's NOT a top 5 player right now. Or top 10.

Top 10 is reserved for guys who are ALREADY there. With no asterisks, no special instructions of how to view them

So, again, calm down. Quite a few of you said he's ALREADY that good. He's not.

Dont call me when you're in my town, call me when you're on my BLOCK

You know that he averaged 17 - 10 - 5 in 28 minutes last season. Per 36 he is projected 21.6 - 12.7 - 6.3. He had a 26 PER. So he is projected as a top 3 offensive big in the league right now. Can he sustain this number? Judging by the end of last season... yeah, absolutely. He was dominating on 30 minutes a night.

Again that's even with Malone jerking him around at PF for a month and him struggling threre.

He was also 6th in the league in Real Plus Minus and 34th in Defensive Real plus minus. He was 10th in Defensive Real plus the year prior and 9th overall.

I really don't know what the guy has to do. The team is clearly a ton better when he plays and he is putting up some of the most outrageous individual production in the league as well. He pretty clearly is a top 10 player already at 21 years old by every metric there is. People just sterotype because he's a white doughy guy drafted in the 2nd round.

[Prokorov]

He is the leagues best player under 25.

and this is from a jokic hater who was proved wrong when i doubted him and hated on denver fans last year. obviously he has to reproduce what he did last year, in a full year with more focus. but i dont see why he cant be a top 12 player this season

[Prokorov]

Towns > Jokic is very debatable. Towns has insane regular stats, but he also has some of the worst advanced defensive stats.

i dont think there is really any argument for towns over jokic. jokic is already better with a higher ceiling and more impact on winning

[UcanUwill]

Towns > Jokic is very debatable. Towns has insane regular stats, but he also has some of the worst advanced defensive stats.

i dont think there is really any argument for towns over jokic. jokic is already better with a higher ceiling and more impact on winning

KAT averaged 25 points on 54 % shooting. So he is legit, That being said, he played with one of the best passers in the world, where Jokic, is one of the best passers himself.

[Prokorov]

Towns > Jokic is very debatable. Towns has insane regular stats, but he also has some of the worst advanced defensive stats.

i dont think there is really any argument for towns over jokic. jokic is already better with a higher ceiling and more impact on winning

KAT averaged 25 points on 54 % shooting. So he is legit, That being said, he played with one of the best passers in the world, where Jokic, is one of the best passers himself.

no one is calling towns a scrub. just saying jokic is better

[Chi]

Perennial MVP candidate level potential if he can stay healthy. Already one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Top 10 in RAPM, RPM, RPM WINS and once he took over at Center the Nuggets instantly became the top offense in the entire league.

Is this a fact or opinion? Were they really the top offense in the league after that point?

[clyde21]

Perennial MVP candidate level potential if he can stay healthy. Already one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Top 10 in RAPM, RPM, RPM WINS and once he took over at Center the Nuggets instantly became the top offense in the entire league.

Is this a fact or opinion? Were they really the top offense in the league after that point?

Fact. Even better than the Warriors and Rockets.

[flintsky21]

No way Jokic is better than Towns.

[Chi]

Perennial MVP candidate level potential if he can stay healthy. Already one of the most impactful players in the entire league. Top 10 in RAPM, RPM, RPM WINS and once he took over at Center the Nuggets instantly became the top offense in the entire league.

Is this a fact or opinion? Were they really the top offense in the league after that point?

Fact. Even better than the Warriors and Rockets.

Not knocking him, this is just a general question.

Why are is MPG so low? Does he have stamina issues? Bad coaching? etc. ?

[Chi]

My opinion of the Towns vs Jokic debate...

I always thought Towns was clearly better, but I can see how Jokic is killing him on actual individual impact of winning games at the moment.

With that said Jokic is clearly better "Right Now". But in the future I still expect Towns to become better if not way better than Jokic.

The reason is I expect towns to be a dominant 2 way player. There's no reason for him not to become a great or elite defender in this league. Jokic doesn't have that type of potential.

For that reason I think Towns will be the better of the 2, but at the moment Jokic's impact on a team winning far outweighs Towns until he starts playing D.