Bayless: Vince Carter played himself out of HOF in late career

[CarMalone]

Gaudy numbers??

Again, he's never even finished in the Top 9 for MVP. Never been All-NBA 1st team. Only made 2nd and 3rd team ONCE. He has no business in the HOF.

20/5/4 with bad defense, and no Top 3 scoring finishes is just weak.

I have just one question. Why Top 9 in MVP voting? Why 9? Random.

because he was top 10 once, that's why. LOL I can't take this guy seriously.

Don't take him too seriously. There was a thread a few years ago about who the worst posters on RealGM are and even a mod nominated him before the thread was locked.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Disagree with Skip.......Vince has never been HOF level.

Resume:
All-NBA 2nd team - once
All-NBA 3rd team - once
Top 9 MVP finishes - never
NBA Finals - never
Conference Finals - once

What's Vince's argument other than being arguably the GOAT dunker.

How many times were you bounced off the head as a child?

Almost 100% of players who score 20k points make the HOF.

He led the Raptors to their FIRST EVER playoff appearance along with their first playoff series win EVER as well vs the Knicks in 5 in NY where he had a smooth 27 and clutch putback to ice the game.
1999-2000 Rookie of the Year.
Him and Charles Barkely are the only two players to have ever posted a game with 40 points, 15 rebounds, five steals and five assists, dating since steals began being recorded as a stat 45 years ago.
Classy move in giving up his starting spot in the 2003 all star game.
8 all star game selections, 6 in a row voted in as a starter
2015-2016 Teammate of the year award.
Oldest player in the last decade and a half to score 20 or more points in a game since MJ in 2003.
Him, MJ, and Patrick Ewing are the only players aged 39 or more to have 20 points and 5+ boards in a game.
First 40 year old to hit 6 threes in a game.
First 40 year old to ever make 3 or more threes in a playoff game.
in the 2017-2018 Players Voice Awards, was voted as the most influential veteran, most respected and NBA backbone
22nd on the all time scoring list with close to 25k and will get to #19 on that list this upcoming season
transitioned from a #1 to a 6th man to role model/mentor seamlessly with no hassles, no ego trips, and literally is the ONLY player besides dirk to go with me from 2nd grade to age 28.
BEST dunker of ALL time
best DUNK of all time in the olympics
Olympic gold medalist and leading scorer on that team as well.
8th all time in 3s made and will get up to #7 passing Paul Pierce this year. Vince is about to have a whole 5k more


NBA playoff records
Most three-point field goals made in one half: 8 (May 11, 2001 vs. Philadelphia 76ers, Eastern Conference Semifinals)
Most consecutive three-point field goals made in one game: 8 (same game as above)
Most consecutive three-point field goals made in one half: 8 (same game as above)[130]
First 40-year old player to hit at least three 3-pointers in a playoff game: 3 (April 22, 2017 vs. San Antonio Spurs, Western Conference 1st round)[131]
New Jersey Nets franchise records
Most three-point field goals made in one game: 9 (December 11, 2006 vs. Memphis Grizzlies)
Most points scored in one season: 2,070 (2006–07)
Most consecutive 20 or more point games: 23 (2005–06)
First Net to score at least 2,000 points in a single season (2006–07)[132



You are a complete and utter imbecile.

LOL @ this list of "achievements"

We're talking the Hall of Fame, not his sport center highlight resume. Point blank, Vince was NEVER elite. In his own era, where does he rank? He's not Top 5, not Top 10, not even Top 20...in his era.

[kazeme2]

Littered with injuries? His 13 prime years rookie season to his last season at least scoring 15 ppg the half season with the suns/magic, in 10 of those years, he played at least 73 games.

His 3 seasons from 1999-2002 were pretty impressive seasons my friend and the half season trade after to the nets was awesome as well, the next 2 years were pretty impressive as well. averaging 25-6-4 over 6 seasons shooting at least 45 from the field, 35 from 3, and 80 from the ft line is impressive enough because BACK then, you have to remember teams barely cracked 95 points a game, someone averaging 25 now is impressive where 85 percent of teams now score at least 105 points per game. huge difference. 2003-2004 the mavs and kings led the league in scoring at 102 ppg, now the lowest scoring team in the nba scores at least 100 points a game, thats a huge difference.

[kazeme2]

Disagree with Skip.......Vince has never been HOF level.

Resume:
All-NBA 2nd team - once
All-NBA 3rd team - once
Top 9 MVP finishes - never
NBA Finals - never
Conference Finals - once

What's Vince's argument other than being arguably the GOAT dunker.

How many times were you bounced off the head as a child?

Almost 100% of players who score 20k points make the HOF.

He led the Raptors to their FIRST EVER playoff appearance along with their first playoff series win EVER as well vs the Knicks in 5 in NY where he had a smooth 27 and clutch putback to ice the game.
1999-2000 Rookie of the Year.
Him and Charles Barkely are the only two players to have ever posted a game with 40 points, 15 rebounds, five steals and five assists, dating since steals began being recorded as a stat 45 years ago.
Classy move in giving up his starting spot in the 2003 all star game.
8 all star game selections, 6 in a row voted in as a starter
2015-2016 Teammate of the year award.
Oldest player in the last decade and a half to score 20 or more points in a game since MJ in 2003.
Him, MJ, and Patrick Ewing are the only players aged 39 or more to have 20 points and 5+ boards in a game.
First 40 year old to hit 6 threes in a game.
First 40 year old to ever make 3 or more threes in a playoff game.
in the 2017-2018 Players Voice Awards, was voted as the most influential veteran, most respected and NBA backbone
22nd on the all time scoring list with close to 25k and will get to #19 on that list this upcoming season
transitioned from a #1 to a 6th man to role model/mentor seamlessly with no hassles, no ego trips, and literally is the ONLY player besides dirk to go with me from 2nd grade to age 28.
BEST dunker of ALL time
best DUNK of all time in the olympics
Olympic gold medalist and leading scorer on that team as well.
8th all time in 3s made and will get up to #7 passing Paul Pierce this year. Vince is about to have a whole 5k more


NBA playoff records
Most three-point field goals made in one half: 8 (May 11, 2001 vs. Philadelphia 76ers, Eastern Conference Semifinals)
Most consecutive three-point field goals made in one game: 8 (same game as above)
Most consecutive three-point field goals made in one half: 8 (same game as above)[130]
First 40-year old player to hit at least three 3-pointers in a playoff game: 3 (April 22, 2017 vs. San Antonio Spurs, Western Conference 1st round)[131]
New Jersey Nets franchise records
Most three-point field goals made in one game: 9 (December 11, 2006 vs. Memphis Grizzlies)
Most points scored in one season: 2,070 (2006–07)
Most consecutive 20 or more point games: 23 (2005–06)
First Net to score at least 2,000 points in a single season (2006–07)[132



You are a complete and utter imbecile.

LOL @ this list of "achievements"

We're talking the Hall of Fame, not his sport center highlight resume. Point blank, Vince was NEVER elite. In his own era, where does he rank? He's not Top 5, not Top 10, not even Top 20...in his era.

He will still be in the HOF regardless of what you think. Sorry.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I assume you mean on your personal scale. Vince put up some pretty gaudy numbers...albeit not the best efficiency. 8x all star.

Career 20 / 5 / 4 guy. I would have him in

Gaudy numbers??

Again, he's never even finished in the Top 9 for MVP. Never been All-NBA 1st team. Only made 2nd and 3rd team ONCE. He has no business in the HOF.

20/5/4 with bad defense, and no Top 3 scoring finishes is just weak.

Stop it dude. He finished Top 7 in Scoring 5x and Top 5 once, that's fine.

Averaged 21-28 and 5-6 and 4-5 for a decade straight, I get your point about it being the hall of FAME, but I am simply going by how they let players in, there are players in there with not as good of a resume as Vince.

Top 7 in scoring is not impressive. Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at.

Both Manu & Pau were better players and they're likely getting into the HOF based on international play, not just the NBA.

Vince = 00's version of Demar Derozan

[GreatWhiteStiff]

My thoughts is it reflects poorly on you that you listen or watch skip and then think it’s a valid enough opinion or debate to make a topic about.

This...but anyways vince hasn't even been that bad in his later years. He's superold and most people simply can not play nba basketball any longer at his age. Apparently his vertical is still pretty outstanding as of a few years ago.

[kazeme2]

Gaudy numbers??

Again, he's never even finished in the Top 9 for MVP. Never been All-NBA 1st team. Only made 2nd and 3rd team ONCE. He has no business in the HOF.

20/5/4 with bad defense, and no Top 3 scoring finishes is just weak.

Stop it dude. He finished Top 7 in Scoring 5x and Top 5 once, that's fine.

Averaged 21-28 and 5-6 and 4-5 for a decade straight, I get your point about it being the hall of FAME, but I am simply going by how they let players in, there are players in there with not as good of a resume as Vince.

Top 7 in scoring is not impressive. Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at.

Both Manu & Pau were better players and they're likely getting into the HOF based on international play, not just the NBA.

Vince = 00's version of Demar Derozan

Yeah cause comparing the #8 three point maker in NBA history to someone who shoots 27% from 3 his whole career and gets benched in the playoffs versus being on the floor and the unquestioned leader makes total sense.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Stop it dude. He finished Top 7 in Scoring 5x and Top 5 once, that's fine.

Averaged 21-28 and 5-6 and 4-5 for a decade straight, I get your point about it being the hall of FAME, but I am simply going by how they let players in, there are players in there with not as good of a resume as Vince.

Top 7 in scoring is not impressive. Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at.

Both Manu & Pau were better players and they're likely getting into the HOF based on international play, not just the NBA.

Vince = 00's version of Demar Derozan

Yeah cause comparing the #8 three point maker in NBA history to someone who shoots 27% from 3 his whole career and gets benched in the playoffs versus being on the floor and the unquestioned leader makes total sense.

Peak 2001 Vince: 27.6 ppg on 55.1% TS, 5.5 rpg, 3.9 apg
Peak 2017 Demar: 27.3 ppg on 55.2% TS, 5.2 rpg, 3.9 apg
^
Basically the same type of player. Neither were HOF caliber at their peaks. Not like Vince did any better with the Raps than Demar did.

[kazeme2]

"Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at."

He shot 36% to 40% for 16 out of 20 seasons from the 3 point line and at least 38% in 8 out of 20 years. Unbiased should not be your handle

[kazeme2]

Top 7 in scoring is not impressive. Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at.

Both Manu & Pau were better players and they're likely getting into the HOF based on international play, not just the NBA.

Vince = 00's version of Demar Derozan

Yeah cause comparing the #8 three point maker in NBA history to someone who shoots 27% from 3 his whole career and gets benched in the playoffs versus being on the floor and the unquestioned leader makes total sense.

Peak 2001 Vince: 27.6 ppg on 55.1% TS, 5.5 rpg, 3.9 apg
Peak 2017 Demar: 27.3 ppg on 55.2% TS, 5.2 rpg, 3.9 apg
^
Basically the same type of player. Neither were HOF caliber at their peaks. Not like Vince did any better with the Raps than Demar did.

I am done discussing this topic, I will bump and respond to this thread once Vince makes the HOF cause regardless of what you or I think, he will make it

[MrBigShot]

Vince is showing the proper way for former stars to finish their careers, unlike guys like Iverson and Melo.

Top 7 in scoring is not impressive. Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at.

Both Manu & Pau were better players and they're likely getting into the HOF based on international play, not just the NBA.

Vince = 00's version of Demar Derozan

Yeah cause comparing the #8 three point maker in NBA history to someone who shoots 27% from 3 his whole career and gets benched in the playoffs versus being on the floor and the unquestioned leader makes total sense.

Peak 2001 Vince: 27.6 ppg on 55.1% TS, 5.5 rpg, 3.9 apg
Peak 2017 Demar: 27.3 ppg on 55.2% TS, 5.2 rpg, 3.9 apg
^
Basically the same type of player. Neither were HOF caliber at their peaks. Not like Vince did any better with the Raps than Demar did.

Their raw stats were similar, but that's about where the comparison ends. VC was a far better 3pt shooter and less ball dominant. And Demar also disappoints in the playoffs...VC at least had a post season where he averaged nearly 30/7/5 on great efficiency.

[An Unbiased Fan]

"Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at."

He shot 36% to 40% for 16 out of 20 seasons from the 3 point line and at least 38% in 8 out of 20 years. Unbiased should not be your handle

He was a good 3pt shooter, but not a great one. Not sure why you act like 36% is something to crow about.

[kazeme2]

Because ANYONE who makes 7 out of every 20 threes also known as shooting 35% has been considered a better than average/good 3 point shooter since the beginning of time

[An Unbiased Fan]

Yeah cause comparing the #8 three point maker in NBA history to someone who shoots 27% from 3 his whole career and gets benched in the playoffs versus being on the floor and the unquestioned leader makes total sense.

Peak 2001 Vince: 27.6 ppg on 55.1% TS, 5.5 rpg, 3.9 apg
Peak 2017 Demar: 27.3 ppg on 55.2% TS, 5.2 rpg, 3.9 apg
^
Basically the same type of player. Neither were HOF caliber at their peaks. Not like Vince did any better with the Raps than Demar did.

I am done discussing this topic, I will bump and respond to this thread once Vince makes the HOF cause regardless of what you or I think, he will make it

Nah, he played himself out of the HOF for the voters.

Of course...he never should have been in.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Because ANYONE who shoots over 35% is considered a better than average/good 3 point shooter since the beginning of time

Neat, but that's not HOF caliber. Vince peaks with those dunk contests.

[kazeme2]

Dude, there are players with worse resumes and way worse personalities than VC in the HOF, how can you even think this is a question? Like this is ridiculous.

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority comes from the inability of low-ability people to recognize their lack of ability; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.

[kazeme2]

I am totally messing about the last part about the Dunning-Kruger effect, please don't take actual offense. It's 2018 so I feel like I gotta be PC to everyone as much as I can.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Dude, there are players with worse resumes and way worse personalities than VC in the HOF

Like who?

[ChampionRed]

Everything I wanted to say has been said already...but I still want to make a couple points:

1. This is not a video game. We're talking about a player's livelihood. If he is healthy and productive enough for teams to be interested in signing him season after season, there is nothing wrong with the guy continuing his career. One of the most ridiculous statements that I've ever heard come out of Skip's mouth regarding the NBA and maybe even in general.

2. Vince has had a Hall of Fame Career. For all of his haters out there, there is virtually (yes, quite literally) no way that he doesn't get into the HOF. Argue and debate all you want but he'll be in there with the other greats. The best part? Nothing you all say will be able to change that.

[doc quivers]

Once you've done enough to get in, you're in. You can't bounce yourself out. That makes no sense

What about a positive test for PED's?