RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#18 2018-19

[VanWest82]

You're not gonna find more impactful players than Towns at this point. He's definitely more impactful than guys like Lillard and Irving, and should've been ranked ahead of them quite comfortably.

I would take both Lillard and Irving over Towns. KAT is a more efficient scorer but both those guards are play makers that affect the entire offense to a greater degree IMO. I also think you can hide Dame and Kyrie a little easier than Towns defensively.

[yoyoboy]

I was stuck between Lowry, Horford, and KAT. I know people are low on Towns after his disappointing postseason and his defense is no doubt a problem (and one I don’t see being easily fixed as a result of some physical imbalanced he has in his body to go along with the poor instincts that he has) but he was an incredible offensive player last season and I’m willing to give him a bit of slack for the playoffs considering it was his first taste of of basketball in late April. Since this is projecting for next season, I was willing to include him in the conversation.

Ultimately I’m going with Horford though. I think Lowry is the better RS player, but Horford has been much more impressive in the playoffs where Lowry just looks passive at times to me, and his defense definitely takes a step down in the postseason from what I’ve seen (as well as the entire Raptors team apparently). I don’t think he’s quite the “playoff choker” people try to depict him as and I always defend him against that label, as his numbers and on-off stats actually look pretty decent the past few years in the playoffs. I mean 17.5/8.5/4.5 on 66% TS this past year is a great statline for almost anybody.

But I will concede that I don’t think the impact quite matched the production and at the end of the day fingers needed to be pointed at more than just one guy for the Raptors going 0-8 against the Cavs the past 2 postseasons with most being blowouts. Especially last season when it was a barely positive SRS Cavs team going up against a 7.29 SRS Raptors team with HCA. I think DeRozan deserves the most blame out of anybody, Jonas’s inability to defend outside of the paint has been an issue for them, and Casey’s failures to adjust hurt, but Lowry isn’t free from fault. He’s their leader and he’s looked like anything but that to me in the playoffs. He’s been too perfectly content waiting off the ball at times when the team needs him to really step in and make a play. And like I mentioned before his defense as looked clearly below average to me in the PO.

I think it’s possible not playing LeBron in the East snaps him out of that weird mental funk where he played so much less aggressive than he needed to. But I’m still going with Horford for now, who I’ve maintained has been one of the most undervalued guys in the league for years now. Wherever he goes, good things just tend to happen. He’s a Draymond-esque player in a lot of regards where he brings so much to the table that get overlooked because he’s not a dominant scorer and I think he’s an excellent leader and mentor.

[iggymcfrack]

You're not gonna find more impactful players than Towns at this point. He's definitely more impactful than guys like Lillard and Irving, and should've been ranked ahead of them quite comfortably.

I would take both Lillard and Irving over Towns. KAT is a more efficient scorer but both those guards are play makers that affect the entire offense to a greater degree IMO. I also think you can hide Dame and Kyrie a little easier than Towns defensively.

Towns is at least improving on D though. Since he became a star so fast, it’s easy to forget that he’s still only 22. Even if Towns was a worse defender than Kyrie and Dame last year, I wouldn’t anticipate that to be the case going forward. He’s got all the tools. It’s just mental mistakes being young and maybe a little lack of veteran leadership when he was starting out. With Jimmy on his ass, I’d honestly expect him to be close to an average defender this year. I’d definitely take him over Kyrie and Lillard for the 2018/19 season.

[VanWest82]

You're not gonna find more impactful players than Towns at this point. He's definitely more impactful than guys like Lillard and Irving, and should've been ranked ahead of them quite comfortably.

I would take both Lillard and Irving over Towns. KAT is a more efficient scorer but both those guards are play makers that affect the entire offense to a greater degree IMO. I also think you can hide Dame and Kyrie a little easier than Towns defensively.

Towns is at least improving on D though. Since he became a star so fast, it’s easy to forget that he’s still only 22. Even if Towns was a worse defender than Kyrie and Dame last year, I wouldn’t anticipate that to be the case going forward. He’s got all the tools. It’s just mental mistakes being young and maybe a little lack of veteran leadership when he was starting out. With Jimmy on his ass, I’d honestly expect him to be close to an average defender this year. I’d definitely take him over Kyrie and Lillard for the 2018/19 season.

Could happen. If he can become even average defensively then he should get some MIP votes. Might change Jimmy's mind about FA as well; sounds like he's leaning towards walking ATM. That fact by itself might be the biggest indictment of Towns.

This is going to be very controversial but...if I was picking a big to start a team and all I cared about was wins this season, I'd go with Love over KAT (behind a bunch of other guys of course). Just a much smarter player IMO and someone you can use as the hub of the offense in a similar way to Jokic (though I'd probably go Jokic>Love>KAT). I think there's a little too much "potential" being included in these rankings. Actually, I'd pick Horford over both guys (again just for this season).

[rcc8884]

Went with Towns, don't really understand the hype of PG as he went to the Thunder and they didn't win more games with him then they did without him. Yes he is a good player, but how much does he really add?

Add Gordon Hayward next, I would take him over most in the current poll

[iggymcfrack]

I would take both Lillard and Irving over Towns. KAT is a more efficient scorer but both those guards are play makers that affect the entire offense to a greater degree IMO. I also think you can hide Dame and Kyrie a little easier than Towns defensively.

Towns is at least improving on D though. Since he became a star so fast, it’s easy to forget that he’s still only 22. Even if Towns was a worse defender than Kyrie and Dame last year, I wouldn’t anticipate that to be the case going forward. He’s got all the tools. It’s just mental mistakes being young and maybe a little lack of veteran leadership when he was starting out. With Jimmy on his ass, I’d honestly expect him to be close to an average defender this year. I’d definitely take him over Kyrie and Lillard for the 2018/19 season.

Could happen. If he can become even average defensively then he should get some MIP votes. Might change Jimmy's mind about FA as well; sounds like he's leaning towards walking ATM. That fact by itself might be the biggest indictment of Towns.

This is going to be very controversial but...if I was picking a big to start a team and all I cared about was wins this season, I'd go with Love over KAT (behind a bunch of other guys of course). Just a much smarter player IMO and someone you can use as the hub of the offense in a similar way to Jokic (though I'd probably go Jokic>Love>KAT). I think there's a little too much "potential" being included in these rankings. Actually, I'd pick Horford over both guys (again just for this season).

Well he was 16th in RPM last year and 10th in RPM wins so you don’t need to really add a lot of potential improvement to see him get ranked soon. Wolves were actually really good with him on the floor, +6.2. Cavs with Kevin Love on the floor were only +0.6 last season. Definitely not seeing the “Love does more to help you win in 2019”.

[iggymcfrack]

Ultimately I’m going with Horford though. I think Lowry is the better RS player, but Horford has been much more impressive in the playoffs where Lowry just looks passive at times to me, and his defense definitely takes a step down in the postseason from what I’ve seen (as well as the entire Raptors team apparently). I don’t think he’s quite the “playoff choker” people try to depict him as and I always defend him against that label, as his numbers and on-off stats actually look pretty decent the past few years in the playoffs. I mean 17.5/8.5/4.5 on 66% TS this past year is a great statline for almost anybody.

But I will concede that I don’t think the impact quite matched the production and at the end of the day fingers needed to be pointed at more than just one guy for the Raptors going 0-8 against the Cavs the past 2 postseasons with most being blowouts. Especially last season when it was a barely positive SRS Cavs team going up against a 7.29 SRS Raptors team with HCA. I think DeRozan deserves the most blame out of anybody, Jonas’s inability to defend outside of the paint has been an issue for them, and Casey’s failures to adjust hurt, but Lowry isn’t free from fault. He’s their leader and he’s looked like anything but that to me in the playoffs. He’s been too perfectly content waiting off the ball at times when the team needs him to really step in and make a play. And like I mentioned before his defense as looked clearly below average to me in the PO.

I think it’s possible not playing LeBron in the East snaps him out of that weird mental funk where he played so much less aggressive than he needed to. But I’m still going with Horford for now, who I’ve maintained has been one of the most undervalued guys in the league for years now. Wherever he goes, good things just tend to happen. He’s a Draymond-esque player in a lot of regards where he brings so much to the table that get overlooked because he’s not a dominant scorer and I think he’s an excellent leader and mentor.

Good well-reasoned post overall, but I really don’t think it’s fair for you to criticize Lowry for losing to Cleveland last year. He gave everything he possibly could those first 3 games. That really is all on Derozan. Here are their numbers each game:

Game 1
Lowry: 18/3/10 on .676 TS%
Derozan: 22/7/5 on .516 TS%

Game 2
Lowry: 21/4/8 on .861 TS%
Derozan: 24/0/3 on .503 TS%

Game 3
Lowry: 27/3/7 on .863 TS% (hit game-tying shot with 0:02 left)
Derozan: 8/4/2 on .311 TS%

That’s one guy rising to the occasion and playing like a superstar and just getting dragged down by a dead-weight teammate that’s supposed to be the second best player on the team.

[VanWest82]

Well he was 16th in RPM last year and 10th in RPM wins so you don’t need to really add a lot of potential improvement to see him get ranked soon. Wolves were actually really good with him on the floor, +6.2. Cavs with Kevin Love on the floor were only +0.6 last season. Definitely not seeing the “Love does more to help you win in 2019”.

You're going to need more than all-in-one advanced stats to convince me. RPM thinks Nurkic was the 4th best defender in the league, and Baynes was 5th. 37 year old David West, playing on one leg, was 8th. Lucas Nogueira is ahead of Al Horford. Nic Vucevic is better than Paul Millsap and Andre Iguodala. It just goes on and on. BTW, I think RPM is probably the best catch all NBA stat there is. You see my point though. These catch all basketball stats are too ambitious, and are much more about the business of sports statistics than anything else IMO. I promise you the Warriors and Celtics aren't looking at PER and BPM and RPM to evaluate their players.

Cavs never played Love to his strengths. Everything about that team was how it needed to be constructed around Lebron (which is how it should be on a Lebron team). This put Love in a terrible spot though as the Cavs version of Miami Bosh. We need that context to evaluate guys. Hopefully this year we start to see a game plan that better fits KLove now that he's their best player.

[iggymcfrack]

Well he was 16th in RPM last year and 10th in RPM wins so you don’t need to really add a lot of potential improvement to see him get ranked soon. Wolves were actually really good with him on the floor, +6.2. Cavs with Kevin Love on the floor were only +0.6 last season. Definitely not seeing the “Love does more to help you win in 2019”.

You're going to need more than all-in-one advanced stats to convince me. RPM thinks Nurkic was the 4th best defender in the league, and Baynes was 5th. 37 year old David West, playing on one leg, was 8th. Lucas Nogueira is ahead of Al Horford. Nic Vucevic is better than Paul Millsap and Andre Iguodala. It just goes on and on. BTW, I think RPM is probably the best catch all NBA stat there is. You see my point though. These catch all basketball stats are too ambitious, and are much more about the business of sports statistics than anything else IMO. I promise you the Warriors and Celtics aren't looking at PER and BPM and RPM to evaluate their players.

Cavs never played Love to his strengths. Everything about that team was how it needed to be constructed around Lebron (which is how it should be on a Lebron team). This put Love in a terrible spot though as the Cavs version of Miami Bosh. We need that context to evaluate guys. Hopefully this year we start to see a game plan that better fits KLove now that he's their best player.

That’s a fair point on Love. It feels like he’s declined since he went to Cleveland, but if you look at his numbers they’ve actually gone slightly up each regular season and he’s younger than he seems (still 29). Maybe the Minnesota Love is still hiding underneath the surface. I’m still gonna bet on the 22 year old who’s already a star improving over the 29 year old returning to form, but I’ll grant you that Love is underrated and should probably be in the Top 30 somewhere.