The officiating problem encapsulated

[Yoshun]

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

This is probably true. However, it's still impressive when you consider how many 3s he shoots. Guys who shoot as many 3s as he does usually don't go to the line all that much.

Take Curry, for example. He shoots more 3s than Harden but still has made more than twice as many FGs as he has FTs.

[Jon1798]

Not to divert the thread but:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/02/pelicans-cry-foul-over-warriors-free-throw-advantage/amp/

Game 2 of the Pelicans vs Warriors playoff series. Jrue Holiday and Anthony Davis played 90 combined minutes of playoff basketball, shot 48 field goal attempts and did not get a single free throw. Warriors had a 59-20 free throw advantage through two games, while the Pels dominated field goals in the paint.

Everyone knows the Pels were hot at the end of last season, but this really submarined just how great they were playing.

This is an impossible game to officiate, and I will never say otherwise. But a lot of the things that happen can be so easily avoided. I just don’t think the league/refs/whomever wants it avoided for whatever reason.

[XxIronChainzxX]

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

This is probably true. However, it's still impressive when you consider how many 3s he shoots. Guys who shoot as many 3s as he does usually don't go to the line all that much.

Take Curry, for example. He shoots more 3s than Harden but still has made more than twice as many FGs as he has FTs.

What am I missing? A 3 is an FGA like a 2. This isn't about made FGs is it? I thought it was FGA to FTA?

[HotelVitale]

The NBA created this by rewarding floppers and guys like James Harden who just jump into people for the whistle.

its harden's ability to decelerate and change direction on a dime, that makes him unguardable, especially with these rules. Teams have been playing a alot of illegal d againist the rockets and been getting away with too funny how manu ginobili and vlade were beloved by this website for years and they were the biggest floppers ever

I'm not referring to the times Harden makes a great play and is fouled. I'm referring to the numerous times he flies into a defender and the defender is called for a foul, despite having good position.

That happens like once a month at most. A lot of Harden' fouls are sort of cheap and they're not fun to watch, but they're fouls--he's in motion towards the basket and a defender who is also in motion comes into contact with him. That's what the definition of a shooting foul is. Yeah, Harden does things to bait defenders and it's not cool that he's sort of abusing the rules--you're supposed to just try to make your shot and get fouled in the process rather than trying to bait fouls--but there's really no grounds to complain about it. It's what a foul is, and the officials can't not call it.

[HotelVitale]

*shakes head*

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

[That's really sad to see. Honestly don't see how this kind of stuff can be applauded..

absolutely disgusting. That said, Harden is a basketball genius. He understands the rules of the game and what he has to do to get foul calls and free throws (his most lethal weapon) using the current rules / politics. But it's still absolutely disgusting

WTF is this talking about? Ten seconds on google will tell you that Harden has shot about 5000 more field goals in his career than free throws--10993 FGs v 5997 free throws. The stat in this graphic is totally and completely made up. Check your f'in sources, man.

[RamonSessions7]

its harden's ability to decelerate and change direction on a dime, that makes him unguardable, especially with these rules. Teams have been playing a alot of illegal d againist the rockets and been getting away with too funny how manu ginobili and vlade were beloved by this website for years and they were the biggest floppers ever

I'm not referring to the times Harden makes a great play and is fouled. I'm referring to the numerous times he flies into a defender and the defender is called for a foul, despite having good position.

That happens like once a month at most. A lot of Harden' fouls are sort of cheap and they're not fun to watch, but they're fouls--he's in motion towards the basket and a defender who is also in motion comes into contact with him. That's what the definition of a shooting foul is. Yeah, Harden does things to bait defenders and it's not cool that he's sort of abusing the rules--you're supposed to just try to make your shot and get fouled in the process rather than trying to bait fouls--but there's really no grounds to complain about it. It's what a foul is, and the officials can't not call it.

I think they can not call it, as I believe fouls should be called when a player is trying to make a shot and gets fouled in the process, not playing for fouls. Obviously in the moment it’s tough to gauge/ impossible to gauge, but not like he’s doing this out of nowhere. He’s built his game around it and the refs/league know going in, and that’s still the style of play they reward.

[Yoshun]

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

This is probably true. However, it's still impressive when you consider how many 3s he shoots. Guys who shoot as many 3s as he does usually don't go to the line all that much.

Take Curry, for example. He shoots more 3s than Harden but still has made more than twice as many FGs as he has FTs.

What am I missing? A 3 is an FGA like a 2. This isn't about made FGs is it? I thought it was FGA to FTA?

The tweet Dr. Aki posted was about FGs and FTs made. For a players with this kind of usage, it's pretty crazy to have made more FTs made than FGs made. It's even more unusual for a player who shoots 3s at that volume because they tend to go to the line less.

It needs context, but it's still a wild stat.

[Yoshun]

*shakes head*

WTF is this talking about? Ten seconds on google will tell you that Harden has shot like 5000 more field goals in his career than free throws--the stat in this graphic is totally and completely made up. Check your f'in sources, man.

It's not made up. He's talking about numbers made, not attempted. Harden has in fact made more FTs than FGs.

[XxIronChainzxX]

This is probably true. However, it's still impressive when you consider how many 3s he shoots. Guys who shoot as many 3s as he does usually don't go to the line all that much.

Take Curry, for example. He shoots more 3s than Harden but still has made more than twice as many FGs as he has FTs.

What am I missing? A 3 is an FGA like a 2. This isn't about made FGs is it? I thought it was FGA to FTA?

The tweet Dr. Aki posted was about FGs and FTs made. For a players with this kind of usage, it's pretty crazy to have made more FTs made than FGs made. It's even more unusual for a player who shoots 3s at that volume because they tend to go to the line less.

It needs context, but it's still a wild stat.

Fair and thanks for the context. I'm not as shocked because Harden's entire game is 1) shoot the 3 and 2) drive. It's an FTA heavy game. That said it is shocking that FTMs are so high - so I don't want to understate this is a bizzare statistut.

[pcbothwel]

*shakes head*

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

[That's really sad to see. Honestly don't see how this kind of stuff can be applauded..

absolutely disgusting. That said, Harden is a basketball genius. He understands the rules of the game and what he has to do to get foul calls and free throws (his most lethal weapon) using the current rules / politics. But it's still absolutely disgusting

WTF is this talking about? Ten seconds on google will tell you that Harden has shot about 5000 more field goals in his career than free throws--10993 FGs v 5997 free throws. The stat in this graphic is totally and completely made up. Check your f'in sources, man.

Why are people not just citing FTr for this?
Excluding Bigs & players that played less than 15,000 minutes...
- Harden is 5th all-time at 54%... behind Cedric Maxwell (70% ), Barkley (55%), Kirilenko (55%), and Dantley (55%)
- Lebron & KD are actually tied at 41%, but players like Blake, Wade, Pierce, Jimmy Butler, Magic, and Hill were all higher
- Kobe and Jordan are at 38%

[Golden Knight]

WTF is this talking about? Ten seconds on google will tell you that Harden has shot about 5000 more field goals in his career than free throws--10993 FGs v 5997 free throws. The stat in this graphic is totally and completely made up. Check your f'in sources, man.

Oh boy.

Since when did Field Goals = Field Goal Attempts?

The graphic specifically said FIELD GOALS not FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS. Free Throws not Free Throw Attempts.

[Gus McCrae]

Yes it’s FGM to FTA

[HotelVitale]

*shakes head*

WTF is this talking about? Ten seconds on google will tell you that Harden has shot like 5000 more field goals in his career than free throws--the stat in this graphic is totally and completely made up. Check your f'in sources, man.

It's not made up. He's talking about numbers made, not attempted. Harden has in fact made more FTs than FGs.

The graphic specifically said FIELD GOALS not FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS. Free Throws not Free Throw Attempts.

I see, my bad for that. It's still telling an exaggerated story that's distorting a more boring reality: Kobe, for example, did the same thing during his peak--2003-2005 he hit almost exactly as many FTs as FGs, and it's only when he started becoming post-Shaq, super-chucky Kobe that he started increasing the gap. (It exploded his last couple years when he shot like crazy and could no longer get to the line). Barkely was right there a few years too. Sure, Harden is a little more reliant on foul shots than those guys, but we're talking a little--it's not like he's shooting 50% or 70% more FTs than they did and that his example shows us how the NBA has declined into phony foul-mongering basketball.

Even for someone like Jordan, quoting those stats overstates the reality: pre-Wizards Jordan averaged about 9 FTs per game vs about 22 FGs per game, while Harden's averaged about 10 FTs per game to 19 FGs per game. Are we really crying about how our generation's best scoring SG is averaging one more FT and taking 3 fewer shots per game than one from a few generations ago?

[GameOver25]

[Hornet Mania]

The ripple effect of the awful anti-defense officiating makes the game worse in so many ways.

I'll give you an example from Charlotte. Kemba Walker the last couple weeks has clearly been fishing for calls in a way unlike I have ever seen from him, at times not even attempting a legit basketball play but instead barrelling into defenders to bait the refs. On the one hand I automatically think (and truly believe) "C'mon dude, play the game and quit faking fouls." But on the other hand I know he's only doing it because that is the path to easy points in today's game. If Kemba did not fish for dubious calls he would be putting himself at a disadvantage because no matter who the opponent is there will be at least a few guys doing the same thing. Regardless, on the nights that tactic does not work (and it mostly hasn't because Kemba cannot draw superstar calls and Charlotte is not a favored franchise) it has made so many of our offensive possessions borderline unwatchable. It really seems like he's flipped the mental switch and said "I'm a 2x (soon 3x) all-star, I'm going to demand those whistles" and given the evidence of that strategy's effectiveness it's hard to argue with his logic. Still boring to watch though.

Houston is obviously the worst between Harden and Paul (HOF floppers) but it's an epidemic across the league. The league office doesn't give a damn about defense or the integrity of competition, keeping the playing field level between both halves of the game or anything like that. They just want the boring ass all-star game 145-140 every night til the end of time. I hope revenue dries up asap so they realize there is a problem because sadly in this $$$ worshiping society that's the only thing that will create change.

[og15]

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

This is probably true. However, it's still impressive when you consider how many 3s he shoots. Guys who shoot as many 3s as he does usually don't go to the line all that much.

Take Curry, for example. He shoots more 3s than Harden but still has made more than twice as many FGs as he has FTs.

For sure, but Curry doesn't attack the rim as much, so that's not surprising. 41.2% of Harden's FGA are inside 10 feet, it is 28% for Curry. That comes out to 8.5 FGA vs 5.3 FGA. Futher broken down to 5 feet, 7.1 of those 8.5 attempts by Harden are inside 5 feet, and 4.3 of Curry's. You also know Curry is probably taking attempts that won't draw fouls as much such as cutting and getting layups, while Harden is almost all driving against a probably stationary defense.

Add that those numbers are for attempts which means it won't include the amount of times he's driving and fouled without making a FG since those don't count as attempts, and we know that's a decent amount and much more than Curry. If we look at the drives stat, not perfect, but gives an idea, Harden is at 18.2 drives a game, second most in the league to Derozan at 18.5. Curry is at 9.2 drives a game. So Harden is basically attacking the basket about twice as much. So we could probably estimate that something like 50% or more of Harden's total scoring attempts are inside 10 feet, and probably more like low 30% for Curry.

Harden would be more comparable to guys like Lou Williams and Gallinari, in terms of how many 3PA they take compared to total FGA/G and how much they score from the FT line (FT% matters too though as Gallo shoots in the 90s). In the players - - general - - scoring, NBA.com has percentage of points from FT's. Harden is at 26.6%, no surprise. Lou and Gallo are actually slightly higher, didn't expect that, but not surprising either. They are both also master foul drawers.

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[Tracymcgoaty]

It's crazy how much Harden's % sink when he goes into playoff. Shooting under 30% from 3 and almost 40% overall.

His % in post season is like clockwork because defense is allowed. If lakers would meet this rockets team in the playoffs i have no doubt we would win against this team.

[Texas Chuck]

Per Wiretap

After the game, Barnes said "I ask the refs on almost every play what I could be doing or what I'm not doing. Still haven't got any answers from that. Maybe [NBA executive vice president of basketball operations Kiki VanDeWeghe] can give me some answers. I'm just trying to be aggressive and trying to find spots where I can."

The fact that this is a mindset, let alone a mindset players feel free to publicly complain about, is ridiculous. There should be nothing you can do as offensive player that *draws more calls.* Whether you're fouled, or not, should be entirely dependent upon whether the defender actually fouls you. If you're jumping into defenders, falling down after the slightest body contract on a drive, or flailing your arms on clean blocks, you shouldn't be getting the call.

Yeah I'm never a fan of this. And Barnes isn't a guy I can ever remember complaining about officiating. But this game was brutal. Rick got tossed for miming blowing a whistle and yelling at the refs to make a call.

Multiple times that game Barnes got hammered with no call. I think that's what he was getting at. Not how can I be James Harden and get all the calls, but how can I get you to call the super obvious fouls.

[Hornet Mania]

I'll be glad when Harden is gone, and I hope he doesn't have a single ring to his name when it happens. Feel the same way about CP3, dude's been flopping and punching at people's nuts since Wake Forest. It was a pleasure to see that team collapse last summer.

[Yoshun]

This might have a lot to do with Harden shooting a lot of 3's btw. Probably better to look at points scored on FT's vs total points. This could end up being a bit disingenuous because it lacks context. On first look, I had the same reaction and was about to and 1, but then I thought about it and maybe it isn't really as wild as its being portrayed to be.

This is probably true. However, it's still impressive when you consider how many 3s he shoots. Guys who shoot as many 3s as he does usually don't go to the line all that much.

Take Curry, for example. He shoots more 3s than Harden but still has made more than twice as many FGs as he has FTs.

For sure, but Curry doesn't attack the rim as much, so that's not surprising. 41.2% of Harden's FGA are inside 10 feet, it is 28% for Curry. That comes out to 8.5 FGA vs 5.3 FGA.

Futher broken down to 5 feet, 7.1 of those 8.5 attempts by Harden are inside 5 feet, and 4.3 of Curry's. You also know Curry is probably taking attempts that won't draw fouls as much such as cutting and getting layups, while Harden is almost all driving against a probably stationary defense.

Add that those numbers are for attempts which means it won't include the amount of times he's driving and fouled without making a FG since those don't count as attempts, and we know that's a decent amount and much more than Curry.

If we look at the drives stat, not perfect, but gives an idea, Harden is at 18.2 drives a game, second most in the league to Derozan at 18.5. Curry is at 9.2 drives a game. So Harden is basically attacking the basket about twice as much.

So we could probably estimate that something like 50% or more of Harden's total scoring attempts are inside 10 feet, and probably more like low 30% for Curry.

Harden would be more comparable to guys like Lou Williams and Gallinari, in terms of how many 3PA they take compared to total FGA/G and how much they score from the FT line (FT% matters too though as Gallo shoots in the 90s).

In the players - - general - - scoring, NBA.com has percentage of points from FT's. Harden is at 26.6%, no surprise. Lou and Gallo are actually slightly higher, didn't expect that, but not surprising either. They are both also master foul drawers.

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Oh yea definitely, their games are completely different and they play in very different system. I used Curry because I was thinking "superstar players" along the MJ/Lebron lines. Obviously those guys also had very different games than either Harden or Curry. Guys like Lou are a better comparison overall.

Either way, it's still a crazy stat. It's hard to really say how crazy though because the game has changed so much. Historically, I'd say Harden is a pretty unique player, especially in comparison to other HOF caliber guys. Basically his game is take the 3 or draw the foul, it's a very efficient way to score points, but also rather unusual. He's not really trying to beat guys all that much in the sense where he's trying to create space to get a shot off. If he doesn't have a shot beyond the arc, he's going inside, whether he actually has a lane or not makes no difference to him.