Kawhi vs LeBron

[thebigbird]

LBJ is easily better. He's one of the more unstoppable forces on offense the league has seen. And he's an iron man as well when it comes to injuries. Kawhi has a lots of work to do to get there, he's still much younger tho. His Finals MVP he wasn't exactly averaging mind blowing stats against that LBJ-led MIA team.

LeBron is definitely not unstoppable offense. We've seen guys torment him on the big stage. Marion and kawhi and Iggy to some extent. Pack the paint let him shoot and don't over help. LeBron is mostly a bully style of offense which doesn't work when you have someone near his size

Kawhi tormented him to the tune of 28.2 ppg on 68 TS%

[Heej]

So let me understand...
LeBron needed to build a superteam in Miami to win a championship and then needed to build a superteam in Cleveland to win a championship, while Kawhi can just win a championship in any team you put him in?
And some people still think LeBron is better than Kawhi?

raptors have more talent than than any of lebron's cavs teams

I disagree with this. They just use the talent better. Their offense is nearer GSW offense, which means better ball movement. Better ball movement creates more wide open shots and easier basket's. Problem with ball moving offense is that everyone have to sacrifice in the offense. Lebron's teams were iso team's. Miami teams players were hand picked to fit very well in that idea. Cavs team's players not as much, specially the last year. But it doesn't mean players had less talent. Last years Cavs in the beginning of the year had more MVP's than any other team in NBA, so they had talent, but no will or skill to use it.

It's almost as if defense is also part of the equation...

This is a joke. Lebron is better, he is on a whole other level as a playmaker.

And Lebrons 2016 run is better than this one

LeBron’s 2018 run is better than this run.

That being said, Kawhi is **** awesome! And I love the dude.

Not buying that... the east was absolute trash last year. Raptors/Bucks/Sixers would all destroy every 2018 east team.

Heck - it's pretty obvious at this point that Kawhi will have gone through the top 3 teams in the playoffs on his way to a title if they close it out.

GS, Philly, Bucks are all true championship level contenders

LeBron ran an overall better gauntlet of defenses than what Kawhi faced this season. Boston was neck and neck with Utah for #1, Raptors was top 5, and Indiana was playing like one of the best defensive teams in the league heading into those playoffs under Nate McMillan.

The Magic were ok, and Embiid was injured in the playoffs. Bucks were still the Bucks however. Overall, LeBron faced tougher Defensive matchups in 2018 with a worse supporting cast and put up better numbers.

[FlatearthZorro]

LBJ is easily better. He's one of the more unstoppable forces on offense the league has seen. And he's an iron man as well when it comes to injuries. Kawhi has a lots of work to do to get there, he's still much younger tho. His Finals MVP he wasn't exactly averaging mind blowing stats against that LBJ-led MIA team.

LeBron is definitely not unstoppable offense. We've seen guys torment him on the big stage. Marion and kawhi and Iggy to some extent. Pack the paint let him shoot and don't over help. LeBron is mostly a bully style of offense which doesn't work when you have someone near his size

Kawhi tormented him to the tune of 28.2 ppg on 68 TS%

Didnt Kawhi average 16 pts when he won the MVP? He'll definitely dserve this one tho. Crazy good effort by him, overall.

[trueballer7]

LBJ is easily better. He's one of the more unstoppable forces on offense the league has seen. And he's an iron man as well when it comes to injuries. Kawhi has a lots of work to do to get there, he's still much younger tho. His Finals MVP he wasn't exactly averaging mind blowing stats against that LBJ-led MIA team.

LeBron is definitely not unstoppable offense. We've seen guys torment him on the big stage. Marion and kawhi and Iggy to some extent. Pack the paint let him shoot and don't over help. LeBron is mostly a bully style of offense which doesn't work when you have someone near his size

Kawhi tormented him to the tune of 28.2 ppg on 68 TS%

A funny thing with Lebron. The only Finals where he seems to have some scoring efficiency combined with some volume, is the ones where he gets annihilated. Its as if scoring efficiently gets easier when you trail by 20.

[Wo1verine]

When it's all said and done Kawhi will be known as the better player he'll end up winning more championships and doing it way more impressively.

Without a Wade and Bosh, for example.

[tondi123]

Its amazing what happens when defense is important to your best player.

[SeniorWalker]

Kawhi needs more love here. This honestly is one of the best postseason runs in recent memory given the level of competition the raps had to face. They had the toughest road of anyone to the title and did it behind Kawhi's Jordan-esque play, especially against Philly. I already thought Kawhi was a phenomenal superstar level player but he surprised me being able to reach an even higher gear, arguably an all time great level for this postseason. Before this year I thought Kawhi was a top 7 player but guys like Durant and Curry were definitely better. My opinion has changed. I wouldnt move Curry or Durant any lower but Kawhi has leaped above both.

Kawhi based on the playoffs is the best player in the NBA right now. He just is. Durant is a close second (from an individual talent perspective; curry has more impact), but Kawhi gets it done from everywhere on the court, physical or non physical play. He takes contact, fades away, finishes through contact and dunks on people, one handed fakes, makes quick decisions and typically the right decision....again, very Jordan-esque. Durant by comparison has every kind of jumpshot in his bag, but is a little worse of a penetrator because of how high his dribble is and isnt nearly as strong as Kawhi.

[LKN]

Kawhi definitely has one thing over Lebron... he is a MUCH better shooter.

It's unfortunate that all of Lebron's coaches other than Spolestra have mostly either not bothered or have been too incompetent to put a system around him and the team such that the 2nd unit without Lebron can function without him on the floor. The Raptors are a well built team that can function fine (albeit at a lower level) without Kawhi on the floor.. and even when he is on the floor they can run sets without him touching the ball and still have success.

Lebron's Cavs teams actually had a lot of talent, they were just poorly constructed and I think the coaches just failed (whether it was their fault or not) to build a resilient system that could function without Lebron being on the floor


All that being said - Lebron is a much better passer/playmaker than Kawhi (who is pretty mediocre and doesn't that good of court vision).

To Kawhi's credit - he seems to understand his own limitations and doesn't try to force passes or do things he can't. He passes the ball back out when he's trapped and picks his spots well. No player is good at everything and Kawhi does a really nice job at playing to his strengths. He's not quite MJ level on turnovers (esp considering MJ did a lot more playmaking)... but his turnover economy is very good as well.

[Ballings7]

Kawhi is easily better.

Why? Mainly due to defensive longevity, consistency, and impact, and then just being a more skilled and reliable jumpshooter from the assortment, and also being a better off the ball player offensively.

The difference there is where there is clear separation between Kawhi and LeBron, and it goes to Kawhi. Is LeBron more adept at chasedown blocks than Kawhi? Yes, but that doesn't make him a better defensive player.

Kawhi's a superior FT shooter.

Kawhi's been a more consistent and efficient jumpshooter, whereas LeBron is more streaky and can at times just be off for a whole game or stretches of games. Kawhi has a jumpshot package in terms of reliability and strength of ability, at the level of Kobe/Jordan.

Kawhi has a 3P shot capability and consistency at the level of few we've seen in his mold of a wing player. A benefit of the Spurs offensive system and staff, and the newish NBA.

Also, due to how Kawhi was utilized early on with the Spurs and again with their system, he expanded and polished his game off the ball.. similar to how Kobe/Jordan were used without the ball in the triangle.. putting their length, size, and awareness to use.

LeBron, regardless of team, never really has been an off the ball player. Partly due to team make-up influencing that, but also influenced by LeBron himself, his mindset and preferences for the offense, I'd say from what I've gathered, and always having the ball on offense initially, or getting it mid-shot-clock, on majority of the team's possessions from game to game. The most you can say he played off the ball was with Miami.

LeBron is a more adept slasher, finisher, and passer up to this point, for obvious reasons.. LeBron's 3P has gotten individually better since 2016-2017 and forward, but not at the level of Kawhi's has been since 2013-2014, and especially since 2016.

The drop off offensively between the two, to Kawhi from LeBron, isn't too much, overall. Since Kawhi is still an elite, all-round offensive player himself. Both have their areas offensively where one is definitely better than the other -- but both can really do it all offensively.

Defensively, again, there isn't really a contest or comparison.

To get a bucket in the paint, or set up someone else, I'll go with LeBron (up to this point).

To get a defensive stop, I'm taking Kawhi every time, and every time since 2012.

To get a bucket, in the form of a jumpshot or trip to the line, I'm taking Kawhi.

[thebigbird]

LeBron is definitely not unstoppable offense. We've seen guys torment him on the big stage. Marion and kawhi and Iggy to some extent. Pack the paint let him shoot and don't over help. LeBron is mostly a bully style of offense which doesn't work when you have someone near his size

Kawhi tormented him to the tune of 28.2 ppg on 68 TS%

A funny thing with Lebron. The only Finals where he seems to have some scoring efficiency combined with some volume, is the ones where he gets annihilated. Its as if scoring efficiently gets easier when you trail by 20.

Wrong, but not surprising.

[mademan]

Kawhi definitely has one thing over Lebron... he is a MUCH better shooter.

It's unfortunate that all of Lebron's coaches other than Spolestra have mostly either not bothered or have been too incompetent to put a system around him and the team such that the 2nd unit without Lebron can function without him on the floor. The Raptors are a well built team that can function fine (albeit at a lower level) without Kawhi on the floor.. and even when he is on the floor they can run sets without him touching the ball and still have success.

Lebron's Cavs teams actually had a lot of talent, they were just poorly constructed and I think the coaches just failed (whether it was their fault or not) to build a resilient system that could function without Lebron being on the floor

One thing to take into consideration is that Kawhi basically joined a Raps core that can win lots of games without him. They have a system and players in place that know how to play without him. One of the issues with Lebron's mercenary style is he creates a team out of nothing, so they have no real identity without him. So when he sits or when he's out for a game, they completely collapse.

[FlatearthZorro]

When it's all said and done Kawhi will be known as the better player he'll end up winning more championships and doing it way more impressively.

Without a Wade and Bosh, for example.

Before the playoffs I thought the Raptors were going to the Finals. After the 2nd round I thought they were done, now they are on the verge of winning it all. The team is very well balanced. Wade, LBJ, Bosh was very top heavy.

As LBJ did tho, every team needs a bit of luck to win a title it seems.

[mademan]

LeBron is definitely not unstoppable offense. We've seen guys torment him on the big stage. Marion and kawhi and Iggy to some extent. Pack the paint let him shoot and don't over help. LeBron is mostly a bully style of offense which doesn't work when you have someone near his size

Kawhi tormented him to the tune of 28.2 ppg on 68 TS%

Didnt Kawhi average 16 pts when he won the MVP? He'll definitely dserve this one tho. Crazy good effort by him, overall.

He won the "you made Lebron look mortal" MVP that Iggy won a year later.

[thebigbird]

Kawhi needs more love here. This honestly is one of the best postseason runs in recent memory given the level of competition the raps had to face. They had the toughest road of anyone to the title and did it behind Kawhi's Jordan-esque play, especially against Philly. I already thought Kawhi was a phenomenal superstar level player but he surprised me being able to reach an even higher gear, arguably an all time great level for this postseason. Before this year I thought Kawhi was a top 7 player but guys like Durant and Curry were definitely better. My opinion has changed. I wouldnt move Curry or Durant any lower but Kawhi has leaped above both.

Kawhi based on the playoffs is the best player in the NBA right now. He just is. Durant is a close second (from an individual talent perspective; curry has more impact), but Kawhi gets it done from everywhere on the court, physical or non physical play. He takes contact, fades away, finishes through contact and dunks on people, one handed fakes, makes quick decisions and typically the right decision....again, very Jordan-esque. Durant by comparison has every kind of jumpshot in his bag, but is a little worse of a penetrator because of how high his dribble is and isnt nearly as strong as Kawhi.

"Why are people hating on Kawhi??"

Gee, I wonder why

[LKN]

Kawhi definitely has one thing over Lebron... he is a MUCH better shooter.

It's unfortunate that all of Lebron's coaches other than Spolestra have mostly either not bothered or have been too incompetent to put a system around him and the team such that the 2nd unit without Lebron can function without him on the floor. The Raptors are a well built team that can function fine (albeit at a lower level) without Kawhi on the floor.. and even when he is on the floor they can run sets without him touching the ball and still have success.

Lebron's Cavs teams actually had a lot of talent, they were just poorly constructed and I think the coaches just failed (whether it was their fault or not) to build a resilient system that could function without Lebron being on the floor

One thing to take into consideration is that Kawhi basically joined a Raps core that can win lots of games without him. They have a system and players in place that know how to play without him. One of the issues with Lebron's mercenary style is he creates a team out of nothing, so they have no real identity without him. So when he sits or when he's out for a game, they completely collapse.

That's a really good point.

The Raptors are kind of like the 1993 and 1994 Bulls happening in the opposite order tbh

[DreamTeam09]

Kawhi is better than him, noteven worthy of an argument in my eyes. Before this year I didn't know kawhi was this dominant offensively, but he is. He even rebounds amazing.

Only thing LeBron does better is that he's a more willing passer, but kawhi is offensively better and defensively the better player so I don't see what's to argue. Plus he's a better leader and teammate, no drama at all with the raps this year. Just all work

Lol this is laughable. Kawhi career regular season rebounding high is lower than LeBron's career average. LeBron has 12 seasons higher than kawhi's highest ppg. He's a better scorer, rebounder, and a vastly better playmaking. This version of Kawhi is also a worse defender than peak LeBron. Hell, LeBron was a better defender than Kawhi THIS season. Just stop it.

Umm no, this version of kawhi is still a better defender than any version of LBJ and kawhi already has dpoy awards that LBJ doesn't have and will be on more all defense teams.

You bring up longevity stats without context. Kawhi was a late bloomer and was in a system for a huge part of his career. Just because someone has played more seasons to achieve a stat doesn't mean they're superior in that stat. LBJ has more points than Jordan and he's definitely not a better scorer or offensive player compared to MJ

[BVB24]

For peaks kawhi is the GOAT SF not LeBron. Kawhi has a washed up offensively marc gasol, Siakam who is pretty much another larry Hughes, Lowry with a broken hand and he's beating historic teams like 76ers bucks warriors. Kawhi is having the goat playoff peak, lebrons only argument is longevity.

There's nothing historic about the 76ers or Bucks.

Literally nothing lol. Still a great run by Kawhi though.

[syrus3]

It’s annoying when I have to give Lebron credit for anything.

The Raptors bearing a KD-less injured Warriors is not that impressive. And it took a miracle to beat the Sixers.

Calm down Kawhi stans.

[SeniorWalker]

Kawhi needs more love here. This honestly is one of the best postseason runs in recent memory given the level of competition the raps had to face. They had the toughest road of anyone to the title and did it behind Kawhi's Jordan-esque play, especially against Philly. I already thought Kawhi was a phenomenal superstar level player but he surprised me being able to reach an even higher gear, arguably an all time great level for this postseason. Before this year I thought Kawhi was a top 7 player but guys like Durant and Curry were definitely better. My opinion has changed. I wouldnt move Curry or Durant any lower but Kawhi has leaped above both.

Kawhi based on the playoffs is the best player in the NBA right now. He just is. Durant is a close second (from an individual talent perspective; curry has more impact), but Kawhi gets it done from everywhere on the court, physical or non physical play. He takes contact, fades away, finishes through contact and dunks on people, one handed fakes, makes quick decisions and typically the right decision....again, very Jordan-esque. Durant by comparison has every kind of jumpshot in his bag, but is a little worse of a penetrator because of how high his dribble is and isnt nearly as strong as Kawhi.

"Why are people hating on Kawhi??"

Gee, I wonder why

I'm sorry, was there something glaringly wrong in my post? Do you have an intelligent rebuttal at all?

Kawhi just had an incredible run. He lead his team as the clear best player through arguably the 3 best teams in the NBA other than the raps. Especially against Philly, he had a juggernaut series as a scorer and has looked quite unstoppable at times. Whatever the defense has given him, he has taken and still beaten them. He has had some down games because hes been battling an obvious injury....but still has looked amazing. This playoffs it is not at all absurd to think he is the best player in the NBA. Do I think he will be the best going forward ? No, I actually still think Giannis is about to be "the guy" for the NBA. But in these playoffs Kawhi has been the best player. I dont see the debate really.

[thebigbird]

Kawhi is better than him, noteven worthy of an argument in my eyes. Before this year I didn't know kawhi was this dominant offensively, but he is. He even rebounds amazing.

Only thing LeBron does better is that he's a more willing passer, but kawhi is offensively better and defensively the better player so I don't see what's to argue. Plus he's a better leader and teammate, no drama at all with the raps this year. Just all work

Lol this is laughable. Kawhi career regular season rebounding high is lower than LeBron's career average. LeBron has 12 seasons higher than kawhi's highest ppg. He's a better scorer, rebounder, and a vastly better playmaking. This version of Kawhi is also a worse defender than peak LeBron. Hell, LeBron was a better defender than Kawhi THIS season. Just stop it.

Umm no, this version of kawhi is still a better defender than any version of LBJ and kawhi already has dpoy awards that LBJ doesn't have and will be on more all defense teams.

You bring up longevity stats without context. Kawhi was a late bloomer and was in a system for a huge part of his career. Just because someone has played more seasons to achieve a stat doesn't mean they're superior in that stat. LBJ has more points than Jordan and he's definitely not a better scorer or offensive player compared to MJ

Do you know what the word average means? I don't think you do.

Here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/average