Should Knicks be concerned about RJ Barrett's Summer League play?

[Duke4life831]

Not in the slightest. This is literally what summer league is for. And I'm not especially high on the pick either. Just stupid to overreact to summer league in general, good or bad.

Agreed... that said, his entire season at Duke was pretty underwhelming.
I have faith that he can turn the corner, but high usage/primary ball handlers can quickly sink in value if they aren't efficient enough for the role.
You see players like Wall and Westbrook have a tough time as they arent good off the ball and too inefficient with it.

I hated his play style but underwhelming?

22/7/4 averages.

All time Duke and ACC freshman scoring leader. That is pretty damn crazy to think about all the people that have played for Duke and the ACC.

ACC 1st team
Jerry West award (best SG in the country)
Consensus All American 1st team
#2 all time single season scoring for Duke

That is one hell of a season. I don't know how you can call a season with that resume underwhelming. Again I'm not a big RJ fan but come on now.

[Adam1221]

Its summer league, kid will be fine.

[Clyde Frazier]

Everything the Knicks touch turns to poop. Why would this be any different?

Mitchell Robinson is really damn good at basketball. Trier and Dotson are solid. Frank hasn't been given a real chance. Knox and DSJ to be determined.

[raptor jesus]

Somewhat, yes, because he exhibited these traits in college as well - poor shooting and tunnel-vision.

[BigLurch92]

Yeah no doubt. he looks awful

[EarlyRaptor]

Absolutely they should be concerned. People that say it’s SL and two games, where’s the flashes that make you say “ok, he’ll be fine.” He’s shown NOTHING.

I agree it’s still early but this guy has shown absolutely nothing.

[Indomitable]

It’s one game

Two actually.

But no they shouldn't. Anything with summer league means literally nothing.

Knox was great last year and it didn't translate so way too early to care.

Knox had one great game.

[JoseRizal]

They should trade for Wiggins to form their own duo called the Canadian Chuckster Connection!

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Think it is too soon to be concerned about a 19 year old. Bad games are going to come. I'll see how he finish SL first.

[HeartBreakKid]

Not in the slightest. This is literally what summer league is for. And I'm not especially high on the pick either. Just stupid to overreact to summer league in general, good or bad.

Agreed... that said, his entire season at Duke was pretty underwhelming.
I have faith that he can turn the corner, but high usage/primary ball handlers can quickly sink in value if they aren't efficient enough for the role.
You see players like Wall and Westbrook have a tough time as they arent good off the ball and too inefficient with it.

I hated his play style but underwhelming?

22/7/4 averages.

All time Duke and ACC freshman scoring leader. That is pretty damn crazy to think about all the people that have played for Duke and the ACC.

ACC 1st team
Jerry West award (best SG in the country)
Consensus All American 1st team
#2 all time single season scoring for Duke

That is one hell of a season. I don't know how you can call a season with that resume underwhelming. Again I'm not a big RJ fan but come on now.

1) He scored a lot of points, but was not efficient, highly turnprone and wasn't the best offensive player for a lot of the season.

2) RJ Barrett was pretty damn clearly not the best SG in the NCAA. No one is going to give a guy like John Konochar an award over a Duke blue chipper.

[TreyKincade]

Summer League struggles are overblown as much as success.

[NBAFan93]

I would be a little concerned if I was a Knicks fan. I just would. But I am prone to concern in these matters and probably shouldn’t be.

[LofJ]

He's a younger DeRozan. He'll score and have impressive box score stats, but he's too selfish and inefficient to help his team win games. Like DeRozan (and to a lesser extent Kemba) though he will get plenty of chances over the course of his career and may even make a few all-star games.

His inability to defer is simultaneously his biggest weakness and his biggest strength. It will get him paid, but his career accomplishments likely won't be all that impressive.

[Anticon]

It would be sad if he disappoints, the record on Canadian top 5 picks would be brutal.

I’ve always had concerns about his finishing, particularly given how athletic he is. He had a lot of work to do, since those old T-Mac style stat lines won’t get done anymore.

[Duke4life831]

Agreed... that said, his entire season at Duke was pretty underwhelming.
I have faith that he can turn the corner, but high usage/primary ball handlers can quickly sink in value if they aren't efficient enough for the role.
You see players like Wall and Westbrook have a tough time as they arent good off the ball and too inefficient with it.

I hated his play style but underwhelming?

22/7/4 averages.

All time Duke and ACC freshman scoring leader. That is pretty damn crazy to think about all the people that have played for Duke and the ACC.

ACC 1st team
Jerry West award (best SG in the country)
Consensus All American 1st team
#2 all time single season scoring for Duke

That is one hell of a season. I don't know how you can call a season with that resume underwhelming. Again I'm not a big RJ fan but come on now.

1) He scored a lot of points, but was not efficient, highly turnprone and wasn't the best offensive player for a lot of the season.

2) RJ Barrett was pretty damn clearly not the best SG in the NCAA. No one is going to give a guy like John Konochar an award over a Duke blue chipper.

He averaged 3 turnovers a game with a USG% of 32%. He had a Tov% of only 13%. Thats really not that high of a % for a freshman in the ACC. Guys like PG, Harden, Kawhi, Dame, Curry, Westbrook, Kemba, Kyrie, pretty much all perimeter players from this past All NBA teams not named Kevin Durant all had a tov% the same or worse than RJ as freshman.

Also a guy like John Konchar, played in the Summit conference, that is quite the difference than playing in the ACC. Again it is pretty damn impressive to put up 22/7/4 playing in the ACC as an 18 year old. When you set records like RJ did in the ACC, that usually means you're pretty damn good.

Again Im not a big RJ fan. I hated his playing style, I hated that K allowed the offense to run through him instead of through the best college player college has seen in a couple decades. I agree he isn't the most efficient player as well. Ive stated in the draft thread and in other team threads that most drafts Im not sure RJ would even go top 5. Im not a big fan of the guy to be honest. But again we are talking about a freshman that was 1st team all ACC, consensus 1st team all American. Please show me how an 18 year old that had an underwhelming season while also being a consensus 1st team all American.

[HeartBreakKid]

He averaged 3 turnovers a game with a USG% of 32%. He had a Tov% of only 13%. Thats really not that high of a % for a freshman in the ACC. Guys like PG, Harden, Kawhi, Dame, Curry, Westbrook, Kemba, Kyrie, pretty much all perimeter players from this past All NBA teams not named Kevin Durant all had a tov% the same or worse than RJ as freshman.

Some of those players were behind in their development as freshmen, but nearly all of those guys are point guards or combos. Different roles.

The only ones that were not are Westbrook (basically a glorified energy guy - combo guardish), Steph Curry, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. All of those guys are still turnover prone players (Leonard would be if he played more point, his vision is very limited).

The volume/sample size of some of those players are not really comparable either.


USG% doesn't take into account how much the ball is literally in your hand.
[/quote]

[Karate Diop]

It's summer league... Stats don't matter. There's no reason RJ can't be Wiggins 2.0.

[pcbothwel]

I hated his play style but underwhelming?

22/7/4 averages.

All time Duke and ACC freshman scoring leader. That is pretty damn crazy to think about all the people that have played for Duke and the ACC.

ACC 1st team
Jerry West award (best SG in the country)
Consensus All American 1st team
#2 all time single season scoring for Duke

That is one hell of a season. I don't know how you can call a season with that resume underwhelming. Again I'm not a big RJ fan but come on now.

1) He scored a lot of points, but was not efficient, highly turnprone and wasn't the best offensive player for a lot of the season.

2) RJ Barrett was pretty damn clearly not the best SG in the NCAA. No one is going to give a guy like John Konochar an award over a Duke blue chipper.

He averaged 3 turnovers a game with a USG% of 32%. He had a Tov% of only 13%. Thats really not that high of a % for a freshman in the ACC. Guys like PG, Harden, Kawhi, Dame, Curry, Westbrook, Kemba, Kyrie, pretty much all perimeter players from this past All NBA teams not named Kevin Durant all had a tov% the same or worse than RJ as freshman.

Also a guy like John Konchar, played in the Summit conference, that is quite the difference than playing in the ACC. Again it is pretty damn impressive to put up 22/7/4 playing in the ACC as an 18 year old. When you set records like RJ did in the ACC, that usually means you're pretty damn good.

Again Im not a big RJ fan. I hated his playing style, I hated that K allowed the offense to run through him instead of through the best college player college has seen in a couple decades. I agree he isn't the most efficient player as well. Ive stated in the draft thread and in other team threads that most drafts Im not sure RJ would even go top 5. Im not a big fan of the guy to be honest. But again we are talking about a freshman that was 1st team all ACC, consensus 1st team all American. Please show me how an 18 year old that had an underwhelming season while also being a consensus 1st team all American.

We might be talking about the same thing from different angles. He was the consensus, no questions asked, #1 pick in the country 6 months ago. He was being talked about as the next great scoring wing.

For that level of hype, he appeared underwhelming. He has Zero right hand and appears to be a very average shooter. Of course that can improve, but his age, stats, and skillset are much more in the Culver/Jamal Murray/Donovan Mitchell caliber of prospect, not a semi-generational, future All-NBA caliber one.

Culver and Mitchell appear to be better defenders, while Murray can shoot. If RJ becomes a 55% TS, average AST:TOV ratio, average defending primary ball handler... he quickly becomes Demar Derozan. Good player, far from elite in any way.

[FelixD]

This is what I posted in the other RJ thread.

KAT: 12/7/2 with 3 turnovers and over 6 fouls a game on a 48 TS%

Harden: 17/4/1 with 4 turnovers on 36/07/85 shooting during his 2nd summer league.

PG13: 15/8/2 with 5 turnovers on 33/11/85 shooting

The list goes on and on of top end guys having horrible summer leagues. This means nothing.

You can add a lot more names to this list of guys that were terrible in SL and ended up being stars in this league. You also don't have to look that far back either, like many have stated here, Bagley and Young both looked horrible and both ended up having really good rookie seasons.

I'm not the biggest RJ fan, but we all have to remember this is summer league. Dumb to get too high or too low on SL performances. Remember Kevin Knox tearing it up last year, remember when Stanley Johnson looked like a beast? Ya bad or good performances really mean nothing.

PG13 and Harden has good FT%, that projects them to be good shooters.

Meanwhile RJ has 67% FT, its not the same. He has a broken jump shot.

[karkinos]

not really b/c randle gonna do all the scoring anyways.