Kawhis supporrting cast and toughest competition

[Official]

Can you back up that claim with statistics? Or just something you pulled out of your ass? I'm going to be laughing all year long at posts like these, just like I laughed last year at those who didn't think we'd make the playoffs or at me when I said Harrell was about to go off etc. Clippers don't have a top 10 frontcourt or anything, but they will be no worse than middle of the pack I can promise you that. Zubac/Harrell/Green/Kabengele all have a good chance to produce heavily this year.

Are you suggesting Harrell/Zubac are an average or above average front court? Zubac would for sure not start on the majority of NBA teams. He is another mediocre big man Lebron has made relevant.

[wade44]

lmao what is this?

Montrezl = SIakam
Lou Will > Lowry
Zubac <<< Marc Gasol
PG >>>> Danny Green
Beverley > FVV
JaMychal Green > Ibaka

where do you see any advantage aside from Marc Gasol ?

Man talk about overrating one's talent. We don't even know how most of these guys will play in the postseason beyond Kawhi, PG, & Beverley. Lou Williams was unplayable in the playoffs when he played on the Rockets lol it's a whole different ballgame

[johanliebert]

They should start Lou will how long will they hold him back?

you have elite defenders out there already you can hide him.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Can you back up that claim with statistics? Or just something you pulled out of your ass? I'm going to be laughing all year long at posts like these, just like I laughed last year at those who didn't think we'd make the playoffs or at me when I said Harrell was about to go off etc. Clippers don't have a top 10 frontcourt or anything, but they will be no worse than middle of the pack I can promise you that. Zubac/Harrell/Green/Kabengele all have a good chance to produce heavily this year.

Are you suggesting Harrell/Zubac are an average or above average front court? Zubac would for sure not start on the majority of NBA teams. He is another mediocre big man Lebron has made relevant.

Yes. I'm suggesting the Clippers are more around an average front court, not a bad one. Harrell is a REALLY good player. Zubac is solid. Green was huge in the playoffs and shoots 40% from 3.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Kawhi and George get to take turns on guarding LeBron.

Leonard can guard Curry and George can guard Klay.

Kawhi and George take turns on James Harden. They would definitely slow down playoff Harden.

Kawhi guards Irving George guards Durant

As long as clippers can fill in the gaps around Kawhi/George I expect a 3peat.

[Pennebaker]

I think what people are forgetting - or losing sight of - is that Paul George isn't an actual superstar player. No one would want to build a franchise around Paul George.

Ideally he'd be a great #3 with two other superstars.

George would be perfect behind LeBron and Davis or, say, with Curry and Durant. But just with Kawhi? He's not good enough. He's not a #1 guy and I'd be insecure with him as my #2.

Lol man stop. He's an outstanding, arguably best in league #2. To say he's ideal as a 3rd option on a contender when he just led the league in RPM, had a .200+ WS/48 and put up 28 ppg is downright silly. The man **** took 10 threes a game and hit 39%. He's also got elite numbers attacking the rim and is great at getting to the foul line. These kind of posts add no value man. They are intentionally foolish and can easily be crushed with data.

Best #2? You're delusional. There is not a single franchise in the NBA that views Paul George as a centerpiece. Nobody drools over Paul George. And if YOU had a choice you would not choose Paul George as your #1 either. That goes without saying.

But true Big 2s consist of two guys that any franchise would love to have as their primary draw. Paul George is seen as a supporter.

Yes, he just had the best season of his career - but he's never done that before and his career suggests that what you'll see from him in the future is what we've seen from him for the majority of his career i.e. 21 ppg with a 19.0 PER.

He's not a superstar player.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

I think what people are forgetting - or losing sight of - is that Paul George isn't an actual superstar player. No one would want to build a franchise around Paul George.

Ideally he'd be a great #3 with two other superstars.

George would be perfect behind LeBron and Davis or, say, with Curry and Durant. But just with Kawhi? He's not good enough. He's not a #1 guy and I'd be insecure with him as my #2.

Lol man stop. He's an outstanding, arguably best in league #2. To say he's ideal as a 3rd option on a contender when he just led the league in RPM, had a .200+ WS/48 and put up 28 ppg is downright silly. The man **** took 10 threes a game and hit 39%. He's also got elite numbers attacking the rim and is great at getting to the foul line. These kind of posts add no value man. They are intentionally foolish and can easily be crushed with data.

Best #2? You're delusional. There is not a single franchise in the NBA that views Paul George as a centerpiece. Nobody drools over Paul George. And if YOU had a choice you would not choose Paul George as your #1 either. That goes without saying.

But true Big 2s consist of two guys that any franchise would love to have as their primary draw. Paul George is seen as a supporter.

Yes, he just had the best season of his career - but he's never done that before and his career suggests that what you'll see from him in the future is what we've seen from him for the majority of his career i.e. 21 ppg with a 19.0 PER.

He's not a superstar player.

Georges prime since 2015 is a 23-25 PPG scorer with elite defense. That's damn close to a superstar, hes the new Scottie Pippen. He had 1 slow year with Carmello Anthony lol.

Than he went off for 28 PPG and was an mvp finalist with Westbrook as his co star. Imagine having Westbrook possibly the least efficient and worst shot selection for a superstar ever and replacing him with Kawhi Leonard possibly the most efficient and best shot selection for a superstar ever. PG13 offense is about to go through the roof with Kawhi!

[OkcSinceSGA]

I think what people are forgetting - or losing sight of - is that Paul George isn't an actual superstar player. No one would want to build a franchise around Paul George.

Ideally he'd be a great #3 with two other superstars.

George would be perfect behind LeBron and Davis or, say, with Curry and Durant. But just with Kawhi? He's not good enough. He's not a #1 guy and I'd be insecure with him as my #2.

Lol man stop. He's an outstanding, arguably best in league #2. To say he's ideal as a 3rd option on a contender when he just led the league in RPM, had a .200+ WS/48 and put up 28 ppg is downright silly. The man **** took 10 threes a game and hit 39%. He's also got elite numbers attacking the rim and is great at getting to the foul line. These kind of posts add no value man. They are intentionally foolish and can easily be crushed with data.

Best #2? You're delusional. There is not a single franchise in the NBA that views Paul George as a centerpiece. Nobody drools over Paul George. And if YOU had a choice you would not choose Paul George as your #1 either. That goes without saying.

But true Big 2s consist of two guys that any franchise would love to have as their primary draw. Paul George is seen as a supporter.

Yes, he just had the best season of his career - but he's never done that before and his career suggests that what you'll see from him in the future is what we've seen from him for the majority of his career i.e. 21 ppg with a 19.0 PER.

He's not a superstar player.

PG recently turned 29. That's a common age to peak. Prior to that he put up 22 as OKC's 2nd option and 23+ a couple seasons. He's clearly shown he can carry an offensive load on par with a #1, at worst a #2. You are moving the goal posts constantly and not arguing the same things.

Nobody said Paul is the best #1, I said he could be the best #2 on a contender. Centerpiece is a relative term. He absolutely can be part of a great duo, whether it's 1 or 2 is arbitrarily. He didn't just have a fluke 28 ppg season. He also had the metrics and efficiency to match, along with leading the NBA in steals and making the All NBA 1st team, All NBA 1st team defense. Finished 3rd in MVP race ahead of AD and Lebron btw. In the regular season PG will carry more of the load, in the playoffs Kawhi probably will.

If PG is an inadequate superstar, then so are AD and Lebron, both of whom Paul was better than last year. So which is it? No stars exist and neither Lakers guy is enough, or all of them are?

[Official]

Lol man stop. He's an outstanding, arguably best in league #2. To say he's ideal as a 3rd option on a contender when he just led the league in RPM, had a .200+ WS/48 and put up 28 ppg is downright silly. The man **** took 10 threes a game and hit 39%. He's also got elite numbers attacking the rim and is great at getting to the foul line. These kind of posts add no value man. They are intentionally foolish and can easily be crushed with data.

And a routine first round exit.

Not surprised at your And 1 ratio with posts like this man. Can we wait until the season is over?

Data supports he has come up small in the playoffs multiple times. Name another "superstar" who has shot 3-16 and 2-16 while seeming to go under the radar? If Anyone else did that they'd be trashed - like his teammate Westbrook. But lets just ignore it - him losing in the first round was never his fault.....no one has ever expected anything from him.

[OkcSinceSGA]

And a routine first round exit.

Not surprised at your And 1 ratio with posts like this man. Can we wait until the season is over?

Data supports he has come up small in the playoffs multiple times. Name another "superstar" who has shot 3-16 and 2-16 while seeming to go under the radar? If Anyone else did that they'd be trashed - like his teammate Westbrook. But lets just ignore it - him losing in the first round was never his fault.....no one has ever expected anything from him.

My man. Like I asked earlier, do you want to revisit some of LeGM's finals right now? I'll happily find some duds for you like the 2011 finals. Wanna do this? Paul George no doubt isn't the best playoff performer. Nobody here is saying that. Kawhi will be the guy in the playoffs most likely. It does NOT mean PG isn't a superstar or elite player as of now though.

Paul George's playoff woes ARE being overstated though to some degree. His first two years in the league he wasn't even a star. Like Kawhi it took him 3 or 4 years to blow up. After those first 2 seasons his playoff averages are.. 26/8/5 roughly. Not sure what the problem here is? The efficiency drops a lot, but a couple of those he was injured and he never had a guy like Kawhi next to him to help shoulder that load when things slow down. Westbrook is a TERRIBLE pairing for a star in the playoffs, let's be real here. Not that he isn't talented as hell, but he gets tunnel vision a ton and tries way too hard to carry.

[nikster]

Can you back up that claim with statistics? Or just something you pulled out of your ass? I'm going to be laughing all year long at posts like these, just like I laughed last year at those who didn't think we'd make the playoffs or at me when I said Harrell was about to go off etc. Clippers don't have a top 10 frontcourt or anything, but they will be no worse than middle of the pack I can promise you that. Zubac/Harrell/Green/Kabengele all have a good chance to produce heavily this year.

Are you suggesting Harrell/Zubac are an average or above average front court? Zubac would for sure not start on the majority of NBA teams. He is another mediocre big man Lebron has made relevant.

Yes. I'm suggesting the Clippers are more around an average front court, not a bad one. Harrell is a REALLY good player. Zubac is solid. Green was huge in the playoffs and shoots 40% from 3.

GReen was pretty terrible in the playoffs by his standards. His 3 point shooting fell off a cliff, every time he put the ball on the floor it was a disaster, and he almost cost them game 6 because he couldn’t pass or dribble out of a basic trap

[Official]

My man. Like I asked earlier, do you want to revisit some of LeGM's finals right now? I'll happily find some duds for you like the 2011 finals. Wanna do this? Paul George no doubt isn't the best playoff performer. Nobody here is saying that. Kawhi will be the guy in the playoffs most likely. It does NOT mean PG isn't a superstar or elite player as of now though.

The better question is do you really want to do this? Lebron's playoff career vs PG or even Kawhi. Neither has done anything close to him.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Are you suggesting Harrell/Zubac are an average or above average front court? Zubac would for sure not start on the majority of NBA teams. He is another mediocre big man Lebron has made relevant.

Yes. I'm suggesting the Clippers are more around an average front court, not a bad one. Harrell is a REALLY good player. Zubac is solid. Green was huge in the playoffs and shoots 40% from 3.

GReen was pretty terrible in the playoffs by his standards. His 3 point shooting fell off a cliff, every time he put the ball on the floor it was a disaster, and he almost cost them game 6 because he couldn’t pass or dribble out of a basic trap

Green is a 3rd or 4th big depending on what they do with the last couple roster spots. Also he put up 11/5 off the bench mostly and shot 51% from 3 vs the Warriors. Not sure what series you were watching where his shooting fell off a cliff.

[OkcSinceSGA]

My man. Like I asked earlier, do you want to revisit some of LeGM's finals right now? I'll happily find some duds for you like the 2011 finals. Wanna do this? Paul George no doubt isn't the best playoff performer. Nobody here is saying that. Kawhi will be the guy in the playoffs most likely. It does NOT mean PG isn't a superstar or elite player as of now though.

The better question is do you really want to do this? Lebron's playoff career vs PG or even Kawhi. Neither has done anything close to him.

Yes, because he's nowhere near the player Lebron was. He was never considered a GOAT candidate or all timer (he still isn't). My point here was anyone can cherry pick bad playoff games like the ones you listed. It's a VERY poor way to evaluate players.

[nikster]

I think what people are forgetting - or losing sight of - is that Paul George isn't an actual superstar player. No one would want to build a franchise around Paul George.

Ideally he'd be a great #3 with two other superstars.

George would be perfect behind LeBron and Davis or, say, with Curry and Durant. But just with Kawhi? He's not good enough. He's not a #1 guy and I'd be insecure with him as my #2.

Based on what? He’s never been a #2 option so you can say he hasn’t had success in that rule, and how many # options are better than him?

[LightTheBeam]

I have it as

Toronto Advantage
Gasol > Zubac
FVV >= Lou
Lowry > Bev
Green > Shamet

Clippers advantage
Ibaka < Harrell
Siakam < George
Powell < Harkless
Raps 9-10 man < Clippers 9-10 man

Or better yet

Its going to be interesting. I think George is better than Siakam, but the Raptors have Lowry, Gasol, Siakam who are better than anyone else. Its pretty close IMO, really depends how these guys gel. And having George/Lou as proven scorers help take pressure off Kawhi.

That said the GS Warriors are no more. Fully healthy they were better than anyone in the league even this year. Philly also got worse not better. It won't be a cake walk, just as it wasn't for Toronto. But I think its safe to say they are favorites.

[And1+2]

Last years Raptors were deeper than the Clips this year, but all that matters in the playoffs is superstars, and the Clippers have 2.

Ehhh... It depends on Superstar matchups. Right now, a superstar center is really going to punish the Clippers on both sides of the court.

My opinion is that Embiid in particular will be a nightmare matchup for them if they end up meeting the 76ers the Finals, which is very possible.

I think Giannis will be though to stop as well without an elite defensive front court.

If the Raptor's did not have Gasol, we were not getting passed either of those teams, and that's a fact.

The Clippers are lucky that both of those teams got worse, they just didn't get worse in the way they beat most teams... By cramming it down thier throat.

[mickie]

no point for the comparison since a game hasn't even been played yet. next summer will be the time to assess between 2 teams.

[tyguy]

I'll agree they should be favorites but saying they'll mop the floor is a bit much. They're no 2016-2018 Warriors.

2 MVP level versatile players who can score anywhere on the court. Both clutch, both elite scorers. Between the two of them they are the 2 best wing defenders in the NBA outside of Giannis. PG was nominated as DPOY candidate this season, Kawhi has won it twice. Pat Beverly is one of the best wing defenders in the league, also shoots the 3 well. Lou Will is 2 time 6th man of the year... can dominate defenses all by himself and score from anywhere on the court. Harrell is a junkyard dog of a beast who is likely to continue improving over the next couple of years. Solid roll players, great shooters, elite defense , elite stars...

I don't know man... I think this team is built to cake walk their way to multiple championships.
I could never say it yet as they haven't even played a single game, but on paper... I'd argue they're as good as peak Warriors. I don't think people have really considered in detail what this roster is made of.

I mean I don’t really disagree with you which is why I’m saying that they should be favorites. But close to peak warriors.... come on dude. Warriors had two of the GOAT shooters, 2nd best player in the world, arguably the best defensive player in the world and solid pieces around them.

Clippers have Kawhi (top 3 player) PG (top 10 player) and a bunch of solid pieces. Beverley is a good perimeter defender but really poor offensive player. You’d think the way some people talk about him that he’s Gary Payton - the man averaged 7 ppg last season lol. Then you have Lou Williams who is good when he’s hot but he could just as easily shoot you out of a game and plays 0 defense. And Harrell is just an energy guy that’s good but nothing too crazy. Same with the rest of the roster.

Also nobody wants to talk about it but Clippers are one PG13 or Kawhi injury from shambles land. Now you could say that about most teams and their best players but I don’t trust either of their health.

Beverly is not a bad offensive player. Low scoring volume doesn't equal bad offensive player. The guy takes a lot of threes and makes them at a good percentage and has a high assist to turnover ratio. Nobody is going to confuse him with an elite offensive player, but he's also not a bad offensive player.

Also, Lou Williams is objectively a good offensive player that doesn't need any qualifiers about having bad shooting nights. That is capable of happening to anybody, and isn't exclusively a lou williams deal. His defense is bad and is his major downfall.

[nbhadja]

As I posted in the other thread the Raptors went 17-5 without Kawhi last season. The Raptor's supporting cast is being underrated and Kawhi is being overrated. The Raptor's supporting cast was better than this Clipper's supporting cast. Lou Williams is totally overrated and a volume chucker that sucks on defense. Chuckers get hot some games and cold the other. The different with Lou Williams is that for some reason people ignore his 3/21 clunker games and only focus on his hot scoring games. Averages are what matter and he is overrated.