Giannis Antetokounmpo's FIBA Stats vs. NBA Stats

GusT15 · Post #61 » by **GusT15** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:12 pm

Hindenburg wrote:
draftnightsuit wrote:Alexey Sved is averaging 23 ppg in Euroleague. What’s his NBA ppg average?

What's Alex's (and those other 2 guys you posted) averages in FIBA? Is he still putting up 23 ppg?

https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/47740/sid/12105/tid/381/tid2//_/2017_FIBA_EuroBasket/index.html

Participation in FIBA Competition
Competition --------------------------PPG-- RPG-- APG
2017 FIBA EuroBasket: Final Round 24.3-- 2.6--- 5.9
2013 EuroBasket: Final Round -----16.4--- 2.6--- 4.8
2012 Olympic Men -------------------11.4--- 3.1--- 5.9
2012 FIBA World Olympic Qf--------10.5----2.2--- 5
2011 EuroBasket: Final Round ------8.5--- 2.5--- 3.1

GusT15 · Post #62 » by **GusT15** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:22 pm

Giannis in FIBA so far

https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/99285/pid2//sid/9322/tid/291/tid2//_/2015_EuroBasket_Final_Round/index.html

Participation in FIBA Competition
Competition------------------------------- PPG-- RPG-- APG
2016 FIBA Olympic Qualifying---------- 15,3-- 5,7--- 2
2015 EuroBasket: Final Round----------- 9,8-- 6,9--- 1,1
2014 FIBA Basketball World Cup-------- 6,3---4,3--- 0,3
2013 U20 European Championship------ 8-----7,6--- 2,2
Total average per Event:---------------- 9,9--- 6,1--- 1,4

iggymcfrack · Post #63 » by **iggymcfrack** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:40 pm

These are friendlies. The purpose is to warm up the team and help them trim down the roster to 12 players. The minutes are very spread out and no one’s giving full effort. A better comparison would be between these friendlies and NBA preseason games. I bet that even though the completion is less intense in preseason games, Giannis would average dramatically lower stats overall. When Greece starts playing real games that matter and they actually need Giannis to take over, you’ll see stats much more in line with what he does in the NBA.

peZt · Post #64 » by **peZt** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:49 pm

AussieBuck wrote:Greek guy who hates Giannis. Isn't that odd? Wonder what that is about.

Spanoulis is still the most embarrassingly **** player in NBA history.

I know mirotic from many Basketball forums under many different names. The reason he seems to downplay Giannis is simple. NBA star who seemingly plays worse in Europe supports his incredibly biased european agenda. He does this with every player who does better in the NBA than he did in Europe, he's always there to remind everyone how much these players acutally sucked in Europe and how this proves that playing in the NBA is supposedly easier. Examples Giannis, Rubio, Doncic (not suck but he will tell you how much better his stats in the NBA are), etc. etc.
He'll conveniently ignore all the NBA scrubs who dominate the Euroleague
His NBA hatred and Euroleague homerism is stronger than his greek patriotism here. Nothing to do with race if that's what you were implying

I actually don't disagree with the notion that Giannis is inferior in FIBA play than in the NBA (which is to be expected from someone who can't shoot) but his anti NBA - pro Euroleague agenda is clear as day and it's kind of sad that he's been doing this for over a decade on several Basketball forums

Biff · Post #65 » by **Biff** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:55 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:If you include minutes/possessions, you’d make a more compelling argument. I’m going to guess that it didnt support your argument and you intentionally omitted them.

Yeah, the new thing in stats seems to be to compare players using per 75 possessions. I like that more than per 100, since no player has played that many possessions per game in about 50 years.

GusT15 · Post #66 » by **GusT15** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:17 pm

Some other names

KOBE BRYANT

Spoiler:

LEBRON JAMES

Spoiler:

And the International Legends/NBA Allstars

DIRK NOWITZKI

Spoiler:

MANU GINOBILI

Spoiler:

TONY PARKER

Spoiler:

Post #67 » by **og15** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:23 pm

Wooderson wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:2018-19 NBA MVP Giannis Antetkounmpo's averages in the 2018-19 NBA regular season:

27.7 points per game
12.5 rebounds per game

and his stats in the 2019 NBA playoffs (where NBA teams supposedly play "real defense"):

25.5 points per game
12.3 rebounds per game

Spoiler:
Giannis Antetokounmpo's stats so far in Greece's 2019 FIBA World Cup preparation (7 games so far):

Game 1: 19 points and 11 rebounds against Hungary (very weak opponent)

Game 2: 19 points and 8 rebounds against Iran (very weak opponent)

Game 3: 18 points and 8 rebounds against Turkey

Game 4: 16 points and 10 rebounds against Italy (minus its NBA players)

Game 5: 20 points and 1 rebound against Serbia (minus Nikola Jokic)

Game 6: 13 points and 4 rebounds against Jordan (very weak opponent)

Game 7: 26 points and 4 rebounds against Dominican Republic (minus their NBA players - very weak opponent)

averages so far (7 games):

18.7 points per game
6.6 rebounds per game

After looking through recaps for each game Giannis averaged only 22 MPG in those 7 games.

Adjust those 22 MPG to 32.8 (Giannis MPG last year) and his averages are 27.8/11.6. Couldn't find shooting stats for every game but his efficiency was very likely much higher.

Yea, a direct stats comparison without at the minimum looking at a minutes comparison (per possession is even more accurate) are obviously pretty useless. Then of course no look at efficiency either. I feel like OP should know this is a poor way to compare.

This thread was just not very logical. Even the Doncic comparison like I said, it's not helpful if you ignore minutes. If you compare his Euro league per 36 with his NBA per 36:

Doncic NBA:
23.7 pts, 8.7 rebs, 6.7 ast, 1.2 stl, 3.8 tov, 50.3% 2PT, 32.7% 3PT, 49.7% eFG, 54.5% TS

Doncic Euroleague:
22.2 pts, 6.7 rebs, 6.0 ast, 1.5 stl, 3.2 tov, 57.2% 2PT, 32.9% 3PT, 53.3 eFG%, 61.1 TS%

So with another year of experience, he scored a similar rate, he had a good boost in rebounds in a league where most teams tank orebs, small assist increase accompanied with more turnovers, and he was less efficient from 2PT, lower eFG%, and had a lower TS%.

+1.5 pts/36
+2.0 rebs/36
+0.7 ast/36

-0.3 stl/36
+0.6 tov/36
-6.9 2PT%
-0.2 3PT%
-3.6 eFG%
-6.6 TS%

Down in every scoring efficiency measure despite being older and better, up in pts, rebs, ast and tov. I don't think that's a good example of more difficulty in Euroleague either.

Plossum · Post #68 » by **Plossum** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:46 am

Not sure really what you mean by “inflated”. NBA rules are geared towards a more offence oriented style of play. So less clogged lanes (defensive three rule) more space with the deeper three point line.

FIBA rules are a bit more defensive as you can play traditional zone and there is less space with a shorter three point line.

So in a game like the NBA where the rules encourage more scoring it’s hardly a shocking revelation that players post better offensive numbers.

It’s not inflation, it’s just different rules. Giannis is still really effective in both.

The_Hater · Post #69 » by **The_Hater** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:54 am

sunsbg wrote:"It's easier in NBA" - Doncic

One of the reasons for the above is it's star player driven league, FIBA is about team play - no new rules to magnify individual skills and win money from selling jerseys. I guess one of the reasons for US stars skipping the chance to represent their country is that they don't like playing under FIBA rules.

Except it’s not just the star players who score more points, it’s entire teams. It’s every player. So while that sounds like a good explanation it’s not really.

As others have mentioned. Shorter games, slower pace. Different set of defensive rules. Players playing less minutes. 95% of the explanation for the lower scoring both from individual players and teams can be found in the obvious answers.

old skool · Post #70 » by **old skool** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:30 am

Would any FIBA team make the playoffs in the NBA?

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old skool · Post #71 » by **old skool** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:33 am

I wonder how many NBA players have clauses in their contracts releasing them if a FIBA opportunity becomes available.

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prime1time · Post #72 » by **prime1time** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:00 am

It's more complicated than you make it. NBA stats are inflated. But some players games are more conducive to the NBA style of play. More spacing, no hand checking, no defensive 3 seconds etc. As a Wiz fan, I'd point out that Rui Hachimura is putting up big time stats, but that's because his game is built for the international game. At the same time, these are only friendlies. Have to wait until the actual tourney starts imo.

MemphisX · Post #73 » by **MemphisX** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:01 am

Somethings should just be common sense

Mirotic12 · Post #74 » by **Mirotic12** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 10:18 pm

Seems like many posters here implied Giannis' stats would blow up once the real tournament began...........seems not so far, just in 2 games, but Giannis continues to perform worse in FIBA than in NBA.

We have seen Giannis now in FIBA tournaments in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2019 - and he continues to always look like a noticeable worse player than he does in the NBA, with all of its special rules and reffing to help athletic players that are lacking in skills.

Giannis' stats at this 2019 FIBA World Cup:

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/player/Giannis-Antetokounmpo

Giannis' stats at previous FIBA events:

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/rpp//q/Giannis%20Antetokounmpo/pid//_//players.html

It's obviously not even needed to post his NBA stats, since the difference is clear.

XxIronChainzxX · Post #75 » by **XxIronChainzxX** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 10:23 pm

prime1time wrote:It's more complicated than you make it. NBA stats are inflated. But some players games are more conducive to the NBA style of play. More spacing, no hand checking, no defensive 3 seconds etc. As a Wiz fan, I'd point out that Rui Hachimura is putting up big time stats, but that's because his game is built for the international game. At the same time, these are only friendlies. Have to wait until the actual tourney starts imo.

Here is my problem with this "inflated" talk - it's normative. Why don't we say that the Euroleague is "deflating" stats because of their smaller court, and their dedication to allowing guys to get mugged on defence? It's all about what you want basketball to look like.

E-Balla · Post #76 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 10:45 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:
prime1time wrote:It's more complicated than you make it. NBA stats are inflated. But some players games are more conducive to the NBA style of play. More spacing, no hand checking, no defensive 3 seconds etc. As a Wiz fan, I'd point out that Rui Hachimura is putting up big time stats, but that's because his game is built for the international game. At the same time, these are only friendlies. Have to wait until the actual tourney starts imo.

Here is my problem with this "inflated" talk - it's normative. Why don't we say that the Euroleague is "deflating" stats because of their smaller court, and their dedication to allowing guys to get mugged on defence? It's all about what you want basketball to look like.

Because the Euroleague always had their main game changing rules for the most part and the NBA changed their rules relatively recently with the explicit goal of making it easier to score. Most people here can remember the pre 05 NBA and it looks more like Euroleague, NCAA (until recently), highschool, and casual basketball with friends than current NBA basketball does. The current NBA looks more like 2k than any other form of basketball.

Ree4erMadness · Post #77 » by **Ree4erMadness** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 10:50 pm

Magic Giannison wrote:Really, you take freaking friendly tourneys and use it as example in comparison to the NBA? Not only NBA play 8 more minutes than any FIBA games but the FIBA games are far different in terms of the concept overall as the pace is much slower and is defensive focused .

I like how you bring the numbers but not the minutes, your trolling and agenda are too obvious,stop it.

Also, if people actually watched the games, the offense doesn't revolve around him in FIBA like it does in Milwaukee. He's not even the primary ball handler on his team. He comes down the court and has to play within the flow of the offense. Its much more of a team game and the rules are different. He can't just spot up at the top of the key and back down, eurostep his way to the rim without much help. Pretty sure FIBA doesn't have the defensive 3 seconds rule like the NBA does so centers can just camp in the lane.

Mirotic12 · Post #78 » by **Mirotic12** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 10:53 pm

Ree4erMadness wrote:Also, if people actually watched the games, the offense doesn't revolve around him in FIBA like it does in Milwaukee. He's not even the primary ball handler on his team. He comes down the court and has to play within the flow of the offense. Its much more of a team game and the rules are different. He can't just spot up at the top of the key and back down, eurostep his way to the rim without much help. Pretty sure FIBA doesn't have the defensive 3 seconds rule like the NBA does so centers can just camp in the lane.

He is a turnover waiting to happen under FIBA dribbling rules. That's why. He can travel and palm the ball multiple times every single time he touches it in the NBA and the refs allow it. Under FIBA rules, he has a very weak handle, and is far from being even adequate as a lead ball handler.

The fact this is different specifically due to the NBA's extremely lax dribbling rules, shows that the NBA is indeed trying to inflate stats for certain players - for instance, big freak athletes with little basketball skill, like Giannis. And yes, the same with the defensive 3 seconds rule, as you mentioned.

Which again, is how the NBA is purposely inflating the stats and effectiveness of these types of players, and is trying to make them seem better than they really are.

draftnightsuit · Post #79 » by **draftnightsuit** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 10:57 pm

Giannis isn’t the 1st option for Greece. He only took 7 shots. That’s why he overall stats won’t be as good as usual.

International stats are always lower than NBA stats, going all the way back to the ‘80s. Shorter games, smaller court, and less overall talent and athleticism.

Mirotic12 · Post #80 » by **Mirotic12** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 11:00 pm

draftnightsuit wrote:Giannis isn’t the 1st option for Greece. He only took 7 shots. That’s why he overall stats won’t be as good as usual.

Strange..........how the NBA's MVP wouldn't be good enough on offense to be the first option of a European national team. Seems especially strange, since I am sure 90% of this forum would claim the Bucks would sweep Greece national team in a 7 game series, even with FIBA rules.

Seems the goal posts are constantly moving.