Reminder: Anthony Davis doesn't shoot 3's

[lonzo_pelota]

anthony davis is such a problem offensively its the others around him that u should ask can they hit a three , i dare to think what will happen when a team doesnt double him
its not like he's had a
59pts & 20reb game before
or a 39pts 13reb & 8blk game before without lebron
teams will have to pick their poison this season, double one and leave guys wide open or single cover both let them go to work , decisions decisions

[Ainosterhaspie]

Why do people not pay attention to the second big when having this discussion? You have to look past the big name and consider the overall balance.

In Cleveland Part II that second big was Tristan Thompson who had no jumper. But Cleveland's offense with Love and Thompson at the 4/5 was excellent. So a James led offense can work with one big who can shoot and one who can't.

The Lakers have options when Davis is at the five to put a second big out like Kusma and Dudley. This should operate similarly to Miami's most effective lineups where Bosh was at the five and a shooter, often Battier was at the four, though this guy's aren't the defenders Battier was. Bosh couldn't manage that an entire game and it is probably not the best way to use Davis either. Still those lineups will probably see plenty of use especially in the post season. They should be highly effective on offense.

Not only that, Wade was not a good spacer. The Lakers can run out a good shooter at the 1 and 2 to go with a good shooting 4 and Davis' mediocre (for the sake of argument) shooting. That's more shooting than many of the lethal offense lineups James has run through the years.

Where there does seem to be cause for concern is when the lakers have Davis at the 4 and McGee/Howard at the 5. I can see this offense getting clogged up especially if we are assuming Davis isn't a spacing threat. I'm not convinced that's a fair assumption, but let's go with it.

The closest lineup I can think of that was similar was when the Heat acquired Chris Anderson in 2013...then finished the second half of the season on a 76 win pace. LeBron isn't who he was then, but then Davis is better than Bosh.

One of Davis/McGee/Howard can probably occupy their man on the weak side and cut to the basket if the man gives help on a drive or gets caught ball watching. Meanwhile James can run pick and rolls on the strong side with the other big. As long as Howard/McGee can get opportunistic buckets, the offense should still function. James has had functional offenses with far less talented guys at the five position, yes even less talented than old McGee and Howard.

[BigRedDog]

I mean it is true that AD doesn't really shoot the 3 well enough to play as a full-time power forward . That's why he needs to play center. If he's going to play the 4 he needs to be paired alongside a stretch 5, otherwise the offense gets a little clunky. Especially once you start putting guys like Rondo on the court.

[TheNewEra]

Why do people not pay attention to the second big when having this discussion? You have to look past the big name and consider the overall balance.

In Cleveland Part II that second big was Tristan Thompson who had no jumper. But Cleveland's offense with Love and Thompson at the 4/5 was excellent. So a James led offense can work with one big who can shoot and one who can't.

The Lakers have options when Davis is at the five to put a second big out like Kusma and Dudley. This should operate similarly to Miami's most effective lineups where Bosh was at the five and a shooter, often Battier was at the four, though this guy's aren't the defenders Battier was. Bosh couldn't manage that an entire game and it is probably not the best way to use Davis either. Still those lineups will probably see plenty of use especially in the post season. They should be highly effective on offense.

Not only that, Wade was not a good spacer. The Lakers can run out a good shooter at the 1 and 2 to go with a good shooting 4 and Davis' mediocre (for the sake of argument) shooting. That's more shooting than many of the lethal offense lineups James has run through the years.

Where there does seem to be cause for concern is when the lakers have Davis at the 4 and McGee/Howard at the 5. I can see this offense getting clogged up especially if we are assuming Davis isn't a spacing threat. I'm not convinced that's a fair assumption, but let's go with it.

The closest lineup I can think of that was similar was when the Heat acquired Chris Anderson in 2013...then finished the second half of the season on a 76 win pace. LeBron isn't who he was then, but then Davis is better than Bosh.

One of Davis/McGee/Howard can probably occupy their man on the weak side and cut to the basket if the man gives help on a drive or gets caught ball watching. Meanwhile James can run pick and rolls on the strong side with the other big. As long as Howard/McGee can get opportunistic buckets, the offense should still function. James has had functional offenses with far less talented guys at the five position, yes even less talented than old McGee and Howard.

To talk about your points

-Though the Cavs ran Thompson/Love they still had big time shooting and scoring threats in Irving and JR. Even with Irving gone the Cavs has guys like Smith, Hood, Clarkson and Hill who could get their own bucket. Look at the current lakers roster none of the guards can really break down a defense on a consistent basis and only like 2 are high quality shooters.


-Bron/Kuzma/Davis is going to rely on the effort and energy for Kuzma and Lebron to play consistent defense. If they slack off teams are going to try to bait AD into foul trouble. Davis also has to maintain good health when he’s asked to bang inside.

- Even though Wade wasn’t a floor spacer he was a dangerous playmaker and scoring threat anywhere inside the 3pt line. His ability to create buckets for himself and others is an advantage the lakers guards don’t have if their shots are not falling.

- True but that team also had Wade

- Personally would load up in the paint and keep a free safety on Green or KCP.If AD is beating you from deep you tip your cap and accept it but I’m not giving up the pick and roll to Lebron/AD/Howard/McGee rather have them taking long shots or jumpers. If AD is at the 5 you have to get physical

[Ainosterhaspie]

Secondary playmaking and spacing from the guards is probably a bigger concern than how James and Davis fit. I think that's at the core of what you're saying and I'd agree with that.

[hoosierdaddy34]

Clipper fans so salty

At what exactly they easily had the most prolific off season evAr.

Ever? Ain’t this the most Clipper fan thing ever? Lakers got Kobe and Shaq in the same off season. The Heat with Bosh and LeBron? This is almost as bad as Clippers fans talking championship when they have never been out of the second round. Will you at least wait till your guys do something for you before you start yapping?

[Uncle Mxy]

Reminder: Anthony Davis' unibrow affects his shot range

The weight of his brow impacts how wide he can open up his eyes, and sheesh, this thread is stupid...

[Lalouie]

Looks like he shot 145 3's last season.

/thread

and was bad at it. bosh and love were better, so it wasn't a ,,,,drumroll,,,"stretch"

[JN61]

It's time for LeBron to take step back and allow it to be more of a team game.

[lakerz12]

What kind of goat is LeBron if the best PF in the game isn't good enough for him because he doesn't shoot the three well enough...

[JN61]

At what exactly they easily had the most prolific off season evAr.

Miami 2010.

Karl Malone and Gary Payton joining the '04 Lakers was a pretty big deal.

So was Orlando '99 getting Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill.

Lakers in 2012 getting Dwight and Steve Nash was pretty big too.

Boston in '08 getting both Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen was pretty seismic too.


Each of those off-seasons could be considered just as prolific (if not more) than the Clippers this offseason.


(i may be off by a year or so for a few of those dates...but point still stands).

LOL at GP+Malone who were way past prime players. Also Nash and Dwight weren't in their peak form either. Miami and Boston are legit picks... but again the guy who wrote that was being sarcastic and is a Lakers fan.

To be fair people didn't know that about Howard, yet. People knew he was injured but that he would come back before all-star break, and he returned significantly earlier that was partly souring the return.

[Zion Wembanyama]

Looks like he shot 145 3's last season.

/thread

Seriously, no idea what OP is talking about...

[BigRedDog]

What kind of goat is LeBron if the best PF in the game isn't good enough for him because he doesn't shoot the three well enough...

Lebron doesn't HAVE to shoot because he's the initiator in the main action. The initiator just has to be able to force penetration. Several guys like westbrook, wade, ben simmons, tony parker, and yes even lebron (at times in his career) have been able to lead efficient offenses while not being good 3 point shooters. These guys for the most part get away with it because they're too athletic for teams to "duck" the PNR. Now, it will of course limit your effectiveness in a variety of ways. Cleveland for instance wasn't able to initiate PNR between Lebron/Love like they anticipated upon trading for him because teams just switched and it killed the action. Fortunately, Love could shoot so they just took him out of the PNR, parked him in the corner, and the rest was Unsolved Mysteries.

But if you go under the pick on a guy like Westbrook he will just beat you to the spot... those handful of freaks that I listed will use any opening as a "launchpad" to go directly to the rim and once you've let them get downhill and square their shoulders up it's all over but the crying.

The other guy who doesn't have to be a shooter is the roll man. Obviously, it limits the PNR's effectiveness as it takes away "Pick N Pop's" and it invites the "blitz" where the ballhandler is trapped and the ball is often forced into the roll man's hands out of his scoring range. This usually results in an offensive stooge like Nurkic or Biyombo travelling because they caught the ball out of their comfort zone.

Now for AD, the "blitz" isn't a good option because he is too athletic and a good enough ballhandler to crush that. But the "PNP" is basically taken away and you have to start running more complicated actions like the "Spain PNR" so you're not just rolling Vanilla "Dives" (think DeAndre Jordan on offense) for 110 consecutive possessions for 7 straight games in the playoffs. That's the kind of predictability that gets solved over the course of a long series and sends one dimensional teams packing.

So the bottom line is that if AD can't be a reliable floor spacer and he's not the initiator (lebron is far superior in this role) then he's got to be the roll man.

And where does that leave Dwight? Yep. You guessed it. He's got to be a "Stretch 5" or on the bench. Now, Which do you think makes more sense? Otherwise, the Lakers offense will struggle to score efficiently.

So either AD has to learn to shoot, the Lakers need to find a stretch 5, or he has to play his natural position which is CENTER. Or the Lakers will get bounced by the math. The NBA is close to Game Theory Optimal these days and if you aren't playing that way you better have a SIGNIFICANT talent advantage to make up for it. And top to bottom the Lakers simply don't have that type of advantage over the rest of the league.

[lakerz12]

What kind of goat is LeBron if the best PF in the game isn't good enough for him because he doesn't shoot the three well enough...

Lebron doesn't HAVE to shoot because he's the initiator in the main action. The initiator just has to be able to force penetration. Several guys like westbrook, wade, ben simmons, tony parker, and yes even lebron (at times in his career) have been able to lead efficient offenses while not being good 3 point shooters. These guys for the most part get away with it because they're too athletic for teams to "duck" the PNR. Now, it will of course limit your effectiveness in a variety of ways. Cleveland for instance wasn't able to initiate PNR between Lebron/Love like they anticipated upon trading for him because teams just switched and it killed the action. Fortunately, Love could shoot so they just took him out of the PNR, parked him in the corner, and the rest was Unsolved Mysteries.

But if you go under the pick on a guy like Westbrook he will just beat you to the spot... those handful of freaks that I listed will use any opening as a "launchpad" to go directly to the rim and once you've let them get downhill and square their shoulders up it's all over but the crying.

The other guy who doesn't have to be a shooter is the roll man. Obviously, it limits the PNR's effectiveness as it takes away "Pick N Pop's" and it invites the "blitz" where the ballhandler is trapped and the ball is often forced into the roll man's hands out of his scoring range. This usually results in an offensive stooge like Nurkic or Biyombo travelling because they caught the ball out of their comfort zone.

Now for AD, the "blitz" isn't a good option because he is too athletic and a good enough ballhandler to crush that. But the "PNP" is basically taken away and you have to start running more complicated actions like the "Spain PNR" so you're not just rolling Vanilla "Dives" (think DeAndre Jordan in LAC) for 110 consecutive possessions for 7 straight games in the playoffs. That's the kind of predictability that gets solved over the course of a long series and sends one dimensional teams packing.

So the bottom line is that if AD can't be a reliable floor spacer and he's not the initiator (lebron is far superior in this role) then he's got to be the roll man.

And where does that leave Dwight? Yep. You guessed it. He's got to be the other floor spacer or on the bench. Otherwise, the Lakers offense will struggle to score efficiently.

So either AD has to learn to shoot or he has to play his natural position. Or the Lakers will get bounced by the math. The NBA is close to Game Theory Optimal these days and if you aren't playing that way you better have a SIGNIFICANT talent advantage to make up for it. And top to bottom the Lakers simply don't have that type of advantage over the rest of the league.

Yeah Tim Duncan needed to shoot threes. How did he ever play next to David Robinson.

You guys are drastically overestimating the need to shoot 3s. Look at the championship teams the last 30 years and let me know how many had PF's and C's that shot the three well.

Even the Warriors didn't have a 3 pt shooting front court.

And you're suggesting that the Lakers must have a 3 pt shooting front court to be successful? Nonsense.

You can space the floor and have a highly potent, passing and movement offense without 3 pt shooting from your power forward.

See the triangle offense for starters.

[Ayt]

Reminder: Yes, he does.

[BigRedDog]

What kind of goat is LeBron if the best PF in the game isn't good enough for him because he doesn't shoot the three well enough...

Lebron doesn't HAVE to shoot because he's the initiator in the main action. The initiator just has to be able to force penetration. Several guys like westbrook, wade, ben simmons, tony parker, and yes even lebron (at times in his career) have been able to lead efficient offenses while not being good 3 point shooters. These guys for the most part get away with it because they're too athletic for teams to "duck" the PNR. Now, it will of course limit your effectiveness in a variety of ways. Cleveland for instance wasn't able to initiate PNR between Lebron/Love like they anticipated upon trading for him because teams just switched and it killed the action. Fortunately, Love could shoot so they just took him out of the PNR, parked him in the corner, and the rest was Unsolved Mysteries.

But if you go under the pick on a guy like Westbrook he will just beat you to the spot... those handful of freaks that I listed will use any opening as a "launchpad" to go directly to the rim and once you've let them get downhill and square their shoulders up it's all over but the crying.

The other guy who doesn't have to be a shooter is the roll man. Obviously, it limits the PNR's effectiveness as it takes away "Pick N Pop's" and it invites the "blitz" where the ballhandler is trapped and the ball is often forced into the roll man's hands out of his scoring range. This usually results in an offensive stooge like Nurkic or Biyombo travelling because they caught the ball out of their comfort zone.

Now for AD, the "blitz" isn't a good option because he is too athletic and a good enough ballhandler to crush that. But the "PNP" is basically taken away and you have to start running more complicated actions like the "Spain PNR" so you're not just rolling Vanilla "Dives" (think DeAndre Jordan in LAC) for 110 consecutive possessions for 7 straight games in the playoffs. That's the kind of predictability that gets solved over the course of a long series and sends one dimensional teams packing.

So the bottom line is that if AD can't be a reliable floor spacer and he's not the initiator (lebron is far superior in this role) then he's got to be the roll man.

And where does that leave Dwight? Yep. You guessed it. He's got to be the other floor spacer or on the bench. Otherwise, the Lakers offense will struggle to score efficiently.

So either AD has to learn to shoot or he has to play his natural position. Or the Lakers will get bounced by the math. The NBA is close to Game Theory Optimal these days and if you aren't playing that way you better have a SIGNIFICANT talent advantage to make up for it. And top to bottom the Lakers simply don't have that type of advantage over the rest of the league.

Yeah Tim Duncan needed to shoot threes. How did he ever play next to David Robinson.

You guys are drastically overestimating the need to shoot 3s. Look at the championship teams the last 30 years and let me know how many had PF's and C's that shot the three well.

Even the Warriors didn't have a 3 pt shooting front court.

And you're suggesting that the Lakers must have a 3 pt shooting front court to be successful? Nonsense.

You can space the floor and have a highly potent, passing and movement offense without 3 pt shooting from your power forward.

See the triangle offense for starters.

My god i was still in high school when the Spurs won in '99. And the Triangle hasn't been usable in almost 20 years. You are talking about a sport that has ceased to exist. Back then we considered guys like Allan Houston elite shooters. Now people's centers can shoot better than him. Whole different world man.

How'd that "TwiN Towers" go with Boogie/AD? Heck , How'd it go with any of the teams who tried it the last decade?

Houston might run a Westbrook/Harden/Rivers/Gordon/Tucker line out there this year if they get saucy.
The Lakers are meat if they play a frontline of Lebron, AD, and Dwight in 2019. They're Beyond Meat.

[lakerz12]

Lebron doesn't HAVE to shoot because he's the initiator in the main action. The initiator just has to be able to force penetration. Several guys like westbrook, wade, ben simmons, tony parker, and yes even lebron (at times in his career) have been able to lead efficient offenses while not being good 3 point shooters. These guys for the most part get away with it because they're too athletic for teams to "duck" the PNR. Now, it will of course limit your effectiveness in a variety of ways. Cleveland for instance wasn't able to initiate PNR between Lebron/Love like they anticipated upon trading for him because teams just switched and it killed the action. Fortunately, Love could shoot so they just took him out of the PNR, parked him in the corner, and the rest was Unsolved Mysteries.

But if you go under the pick on a guy like Westbrook he will just beat you to the spot... those handful of freaks that I listed will use any opening as a "launchpad" to go directly to the rim and once you've let them get downhill and square their shoulders up it's all over but the crying.

The other guy who doesn't have to be a shooter is the roll man. Obviously, it limits the PNR's effectiveness as it takes away "Pick N Pop's" and it invites the "blitz" where the ballhandler is trapped and the ball is often forced into the roll man's hands out of his scoring range. This usually results in an offensive stooge like Nurkic or Biyombo travelling because they caught the ball out of their comfort zone.

Now for AD, the "blitz" isn't a good option because he is too athletic and a good enough ballhandler to crush that. But the "PNP" is basically taken away and you have to start running more complicated actions like the "Spain PNR" so you're not just rolling Vanilla "Dives" (think DeAndre Jordan in LAC) for 110 consecutive possessions for 7 straight games in the playoffs. That's the kind of predictability that gets solved over the course of a long series and sends one dimensional teams packing.

So the bottom line is that if AD can't be a reliable floor spacer and he's not the initiator (lebron is far superior in this role) then he's got to be the roll man.

And where does that leave Dwight? Yep. You guessed it. He's got to be the other floor spacer or on the bench. Otherwise, the Lakers offense will struggle to score efficiently.

So either AD has to learn to shoot or he has to play his natural position. Or the Lakers will get bounced by the math. The NBA is close to Game Theory Optimal these days and if you aren't playing that way you better have a SIGNIFICANT talent advantage to make up for it. And top to bottom the Lakers simply don't have that type of advantage over the rest of the league.

Yeah Tim Duncan needed to shoot threes. How did he ever play next to David Robinson.

You guys are drastically overestimating the need to shoot 3s. Look at the championship teams the last 30 years and let me know how many had PF's and C's that shot the three well.

Even the Warriors didn't have a 3 pt shooting front court.

And you're suggesting that the Lakers must have a 3 pt shooting front court to be successful? Nonsense.

You can space the floor and have a highly potent, passing and movement offense without 3 pt shooting from your power forward.

See the triangle offense for starters.

My god i was still in high school when the Spurs won in '99. And the Triangle hasn't been usuable in almost 20 years. You are talking about a sport that has ceased to exist. Back then we considered guys like Allan Houston elite shooters. Now people's centers can shoot better than him. Whole different world man.

How'd that "TwiN Towers" go with Boogie/AD? Heck , How'd it go with any of the teams who tried it the last decade?

The Lakers are meat if they play a frontline of Lebron, AD, and Dwight in 2019. They're Beyond Meat.

Right because Gasol, Siakam, Ibaka were such a lethal shooting front court.

And Draymond Green and McGee before that...such sharp shooters.

Can you give me one example of a team being championship level due to great front court three point shooting?

You're dreaming dude.

[BigRedDog]

Yeah Tim Duncan needed to shoot threes. How did he ever play next to David Robinson.

You guys are drastically overestimating the need to shoot 3s. Look at the championship teams the last 30 years and let me know how many had PF's and C's that shot the three well.

Even the Warriors didn't have a 3 pt shooting front court.

And you're suggesting that the Lakers must have a 3 pt shooting front court to be successful? Nonsense.

You can space the floor and have a highly potent, passing and movement offense without 3 pt shooting from your power forward.

See the triangle offense for starters.

My god i was still in high school when the Spurs won in '99. And the Triangle hasn't been usuable in almost 20 years. You are talking about a sport that has ceased to exist. Back then we considered guys like Allan Houston elite shooters. Now people's centers can shoot better than him. Whole different world man.

How'd that "TwiN Towers" go with Boogie/AD? Heck , How'd it go with any of the teams who tried it the last decade?

The Lakers are meat if they play a frontline of Lebron, AD, and Dwight in 2019. They're Beyond Meat.

Right because Gasol, Siakam, Ibaka were such a lethal shooting front court.

And Draymond Green and McGee before that...such sharp shooters.

Can you give me one example of a team being championship level due to great front court three point shooting?

You're dreaming dude.

Sure... like every team practically the past decade?


Kevin Love
Chris Bosh
Kevin Durant
Kawhi Leonard
Harrison Barnes

Any of these guys ring a bell?


I'm not gonna start listing off everybody because it will make your argument look worse if we're talking about guys like Shane Battier, Mike Miller, and Matt Bonner.

[BigRedDog]

Right because Gasol, Siakam, Ibaka were such a lethal shooting front court.

Now right off the bat ill tell you i had to work late some this year because i started a new job and i dont have access to all my paid subscriber sites during the offseason. And i like to drink during the games.

But For starters Ibaka backed up Gasol so i dont believe they shared many minutes in the playoffs. Or certainly not in the FInals.

Gasol was 38% from 3's off 3.8 Attempts in the playoffs... 89 attempts...

Ibaka has been one of the best stretch bigs in the league for years... he operated out of the high post and was lethal in OKC fairly early on in his career from midrange... and extended it to the 3 point line as the sport (and his game) evolved. His shooting fell off this year and its a big reason they went out and got Gasol and that he played sparingly in the playoffs.

Siakim shot 37% from 3's in the season...

Then you've got kawhi... one of the better shooters and best stretch bigs in the league when he's utilized in that capacity.


Not sure Toronto is a shining example of a "non-shooting frontcourt"

[Edrees]

Clipper fans so salty

At what exactly they easily had the most prolific off season evAr.

I would Take Miami's off season when they signed Lebron and Bosh in the same off season, Prime Lebron > Kawhi and it's not even close, and Bosh is about equal to PG.

I would also take Spurs off season when they added Tim Duncan over the Clippers recent off season as well. I would take Duncan over Kawhi and PG. The Spurs went from the #1 pick to the NBA championship in one off season.

I'd also take Lakers off season when they got Kobe and Shaq, without batting an eye.

You have a very short memory.