Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player?

[Prokorov]

Clearly you've done the research, so I assume you're aware that he won:

29 in his second season in the East
38 in his third season in the East

29 wins in year two was 4 more then the prior season
38 wins in year 3 was 9 more then the prior season

in just 3 seasons at ages 19-21, on a team with not talent, he doubled the teams win total. you are telling me that was "less then expected"? If so, thats garbage. No expected those cavs teams to be good with irving being just 19 or 20 and coming off a lost season at duke with a team of corpses, busts, and d-leaguers

There is no question the Celtics played better without him. They dramatically outperformed expectations without him by making the ECF, and then they dramatically underperformed expectations in his second season when he played almost the whole season. If you can't acknowledge at least the Celtics part, then you are not being genuine here.

The facts dont support they were better without him. that is a false narrative. them "dramatically outperforming expectations in the playoffs" was beating a 7 seed in 7 games and then beating a philly team with 0 depth 0 bench and not nearly the talent they have now. they were 1-11 on the road in the playoffs. they had home court thanks to kyrie leading them to 55 wins.

I don't care about ROY and All Star, I support a team that once had Steve Francis as its franchise player. I know how that stuff works.

it wasnt just ROY and all-star, he helped double the teams win total

[clyde21]

where is the wait and see option?

i think the potential is there but there are also legit question marks at this point.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Franchise player ? Well at one point Demar Derozan was considered a franchise player. So.. I don’t doubt that Tatum at some point can be marketed as the marquee player for a team.

Now whether branding him as a franchise guy would actually be commensurate with his on court impact, I doubt that. Personally I think Tatum’s absolute peak would be somewhere around the Derozan level meaning he wouldn’t be able to elevate a team unless they are already deep with surrounding talent.

Derozan averaged 27/5/4 as the 1a or 1b on a 60 win team

i think he can legit be called that, even if not good enough to lead a team to real contention

i dont know that tatum will ever reach peak derozan

That 60 win team was almost certainly statisticly and eyetesticly way better without derozan on the court. It's best lineups were bench lineups, and the next years team went 17-5 without kawhi in lineups either after derozan was traded for him.

[lonzo_pelota]

so far he's a much better draft pick than markelle fultz , franchise player not so fast

[sfernald]

so far he's a much better draft pick than markelle fultz , franchise player not so fast

Man that hurts. I had so many expeditions for fultz. I’m gonna be wondering about that one for the rest of my life unless somehow Orlando unleashes the Flitz.

[Prokorov]

Franchise player ? Well at one point Demar Derozan was considered a franchise player. So.. I don’t doubt that Tatum at some point can be marketed as the marquee player for a team.

Now whether branding him as a franchise guy would actually be commensurate with his on court impact, I doubt that. Personally I think Tatum’s absolute peak would be somewhere around the Derozan level meaning he wouldn’t be able to elevate a team unless they are already deep with surrounding talent.

Derozan averaged 27/5/4 as the 1a or 1b on a 60 win team

i think he can legit be called that, even if not good enough to lead a team to real contention

i dont know that tatum will ever reach peak derozan

That 60 win team was almost certainly statisticly and eyetesticly way better without derozan on the court. It's best lineups were bench lineups, and the next years team went 17-5 without kawhi in lineups either after derozan was traded for him.

"better without derozan on the court"

he played 80 games and 34 minutes a game. there wasnt much "without derozan on the court".

on/off is garbage. Raps are a good team for sure not a 1 man team. but lets not pretend like the win a title without kawhi or are a 1 seed without derozan.

[Sane]

Clearly you've done the research, so I assume you're aware that he won:

29 in his second season in the East
38 in his third season in the East

29 wins in year two was 4 more then the prior season
38 wins in year 3 was 9 more then the prior season

in just 3 seasons at ages 19-21, on a team with not talent, he doubled the teams win total. you are telling me that was "less then expected"? If so, thats garbage. No expected those cavs teams to be good with irving being just 19 or 20 and coming off a lost season at duke with a team of corpses, busts, and d-leaguers

There is no question the Celtics played better without him. They dramatically outperformed expectations without him by making the ECF, and then they dramatically underperformed expectations in his second season when he played almost the whole season. If you can't acknowledge at least the Celtics part, then you are not being genuine here.

The facts dont support they were better without him. that is a false narrative. them "dramatically outperforming expectations in the playoffs" was beating a 7 seed in 7 games and then beating a philly team with 0 depth 0 bench and not nearly the talent they have now. they were 1-11 on the road in the playoffs. they had home court thanks to kyrie leading them to 55 wins.

I don't care about ROY and All Star, I support a team that once had Steve Francis as its franchise player. I know how that stuff works.

it wasnt just ROY and all-star, he helped double the teams win total

You can twist and turn around the technicalities, but the fact of the matter is even while I'm ignoring his rookie season, they won 29 then 38 in his 2nd and 3rd seasons. The roster was terrible in his second season, and virtually any average PG would have been able to win 29 with it. In his 3rd season, he had a decent coach, a great coaching staff, and a good roster of role players in a joke of a conference and division.

The Celtics were better without him, that's not even a discussion worth entertaining. They made the ECF as one of the youngest teams in the NBA. With a mediocre replacement for Kyrie, they blew through expectations. You can not sit here and tell me the Celtics were supposed to make it to game 7 of the ECF without Kyrie Irving.

You can not sit here and ignore that they did worse than that with Kyrie. The locker room was a mess and although there are a few people to blame, he is supposed to be the leader. It's always something with him.

How many games do you expect the Nets to win this season? I want to bookmark your answer.

[Mirotic12]

So far, Tatum looks like he has the lowest basketball IQ of any player on this 2019 USA team.

[iggymcfrack]

He’s a franchise player in that he’s good enough to be the best player of one of the 30 NBA franchises for quite a few years, but I don’t think he’s likely to get good enough to lead a championship contender. He’s a franchise player like Kemba Walker’s a franchise player. Or maybe prime Iguodala. Like he’s good enough to be the best player on a decent team, but he’s not likely to get to the level of MVP contention or lead a champion.

[ProspectPark]

Clearly you've done the research, so I assume you're aware that he won:

29 in his second season in the East
38 in his third season in the East

29 wins in year two was 4 more then the prior season
38 wins in year 3 was 9 more then the prior season

in just 3 seasons at ages 19-21, on a team with not talent, he doubled the teams win total. you are telling me that was "less then expected"? If so, thats garbage. No expected those cavs teams to be good with irving being just 19 or 20 and coming off a lost season at duke with a team of corpses, busts, and d-leaguers

There is no question the Celtics played better without him. They dramatically outperformed expectations without him by making the ECF, and then they dramatically underperformed expectations in his second season when he played almost the whole season. If you can't acknowledge at least the Celtics part, then you are not being genuine here.

The facts dont support they were better without him. that is a false narrative. them "dramatically outperforming expectations in the playoffs" was beating a 7 seed in 7 games and then beating a philly team with 0 depth 0 bench and not nearly the talent they have now. they were 1-11 on the road in the playoffs. they had home court thanks to kyrie leading them to 55 wins.

I don't care about ROY and All Star, I support a team that once had Steve Francis as its franchise player. I know how that stuff works.

it wasnt just ROY and all-star, he helped double the teams win total

You can twist and turn around the technicalities, but the fact of the matter is even while I'm ignoring his rookie season, they won 29 then 38 in his 2nd and 3rd seasons. The roster was terrible in his second season, and virtually any average PG would have been able to win 29 with it. In his 3rd season, he had a decent coach, a great coaching staff, and a good roster of role players in a joke of a conference and division.

The Celtics were better without him, that's not even a discussion worth entertaining. They made the ECF as one of the youngest teams in the NBA. With a mediocre replacement for Kyrie, they blew through expectations. You can not sit here and tell me the Celtics were supposed to make it to game 7 of the ECF without Kyrie Irving.

You can not sit here and ignore that they did worse than that with Kyrie. The locker room was a mess and although there are a few people to blame, he is supposed to be the leader. It's always something with him.

How many games do you expect the Nets to win this season? I want to bookmark your answer.

You do understand the Bucks were significantly better in 2019 compared to 2018 right?

Giannis MVP leap.
Added Lopez, Mirotic, Hill, Ilyasova
Replaced Jason Kidd with Coach Bud

[Triple7]

Is there ever a 21 year old franchise player? This thread is stupid!

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Like, on a contender? I don't see it.

Maybe a good second/third option. Beal lite, maybe. He's got a long way to go.

[Tiny ball]

To me there are less than 10 franchise players in the NBA.

So no. He is not.

I see like 5.

[Sane]

29 wins in year two was 4 more then the prior season
38 wins in year 3 was 9 more then the prior season

in just 3 seasons at ages 19-21, on a team with not talent, he doubled the teams win total. you are telling me that was "less then expected"? If so, thats garbage. No expected those cavs teams to be good with irving being just 19 or 20 and coming off a lost season at duke with a team of corpses, busts, and d-leaguers



The facts dont support they were better without him. that is a false narrative. them "dramatically outperforming expectations in the playoffs" was beating a 7 seed in 7 games and then beating a philly team with 0 depth 0 bench and not nearly the talent they have now. they were 1-11 on the road in the playoffs. they had home court thanks to kyrie leading them to 55 wins.



it wasnt just ROY and all-star, he helped double the teams win total

You can twist and turn around the technicalities, but the fact of the matter is even while I'm ignoring his rookie season, they won 29 then 38 in his 2nd and 3rd seasons. The roster was terrible in his second season, and virtually any average PG would have been able to win 29 with it. In his 3rd season, he had a decent coach, a great coaching staff, and a good roster of role players in a joke of a conference and division.

The Celtics were better without him, that's not even a discussion worth entertaining. They made the ECF as one of the youngest teams in the NBA. With a mediocre replacement for Kyrie, they blew through expectations. You can not sit here and tell me the Celtics were supposed to make it to game 7 of the ECF without Kyrie Irving.

You can not sit here and ignore that they did worse than that with Kyrie. The locker room was a mess and although there are a few people to blame, he is supposed to be the leader. It's always something with him.

How many games do you expect the Nets to win this season? I want to bookmark your answer.

You do understand the Bucks were significantly better in 2019 compared to 2018 right?

Giannis MVP leap.
Added Lopez, Mirotic, Hill, Ilyasova
Replaced Jason Kidd with Coach Bud

Did you quote the wrong post? I have no idea what you're referring to.

[spikeslovechild]

He’s a franchise player in that he’s good enough to be the best player of one of the 30 NBA franchises for quite a few years, but I don’t think he’s likely to get good enough to lead a championship contender. He’s a franchise player like Kemba Walker’s a franchise player. Or maybe prime Iguodala. Like he’s good enough to be the best player on a decent team, but he’s not likely to get to the level of MVP contention or lead a champion.

He hasn't shown anything remotely close to what Kemba has. It's still really early so he can get there but we are talking about a 15 PPG player playing an extremely sheltered offensive role.

[drosereturn]

Is there ever a 21 year old franchise player? This thread is stupid!

True franchise players show the glimpse of it in yr 1. You look at Lebron in yr 1 and now Doncic in Yr 1 and can tell they will become special players right away. We have seen 2 full yrs of Tatum but I dont see franchise type player on a championship contending team.
IDC if hes 19,20 yrs old. If your in YR3, you better produce otherwise your showing no improvement like Wiggins.

[Asif16]

Nope dont see it at all. Will he be a good/solid NBA Player? Yeah probably. But no where close to the Hype the Celtics fans put on him 2 years ago.

Mainly because I think he has no basketball IQ and his shooting form is too slow and unorthodox...to a point where I think he'll never be a good pure shooter.

[Asif16]

Is there ever a 21 year old franchise player? This thread is stupid!

You guys were literally hyping up Tatum and Brown as the second coming before last season. Also while shouting Tatum is "only 13yrs old" on top of that.

What goes around comes around

[FlatearthZorro]

He's so young, literally every outcome is possible, and based on his past performances and the time he has left it would not surprise most if he overcame the difference between what he's done and what it takes to be a superstar.

This. I know it became a meme saying he's young, but he's literally 21 years old and has done fairly well so far. As you wrote anything's possible at this point.

[FlatearthZorro]

Is there ever a 21 year old franchise player? This thread is stupid!

You guys were literally hyping up Tatum and Brown as the second coming before last season. Also while shouting Tatum is "only 13yrs old" on top of that.

What goes around comes around

What has gone around or came around? He had an average season, average playoffs, wasn't anything crazy, but was't bad either. Our entire team was a mess and obviously we saw it in the media as well, roles weren't defined enough(which is on Brad a bit), it was a bad(average) season for us last year. Both Brown and Jayson still have the chance to at the very least all-stars, it's up to them.