Kawhi Leonard still an elite perimeter defender?

[The_Hater]

Raptor fan here.

Kawhi was definitely an elite defender in the playoffs, when he actually tried on defense. During the regular season he did a lot of floating and was saving his energy a lot more. Same thing that we've seen with a lot of star players over the years.

Anyone pulling up his regular season stats to prove that he's not that good anymore will likely be proven correct, but they're completely missing the boat on it's relevance. He's still got an elite gear when he needs it.

[MrBigShot]

Kawhi is like a Ferrari, you don't rip him every day. So during the regular season, he's not going to be going full gear. In the playoffs he turns it on. He just goes through the motions in the regular season, so people will say "his defense has fallen off a cliff". Kawhi really only became Kawhi again in the playoffs this year. Before playoffs people were still questioning him.

/thread

You can't carry an MVP caliber load offensively and simultaneously be a lockdown defender 24/7 like a defensive specialist who does little else will. No perimeter player has the energy to do that.

Later in his career Kobe was incredibly lazy on defense often, but when he locked in he was as every bit as good as any other perimeter defender on the ball. I wouldn't characterize Kawhi as lazy by any means, but you need to look at the playoffs to get an accurate idea of Kawhi's defensive ability.

[First Step]

Kawhi is like a Ferrari, you don't rip him every day. So during the regular season, he's not going to be going full gear. In the playoffs he turns it on. He just goes through the motions in the regular season, so people will say "his defense has fallen off a cliff". Kawhi really only became Kawhi again in the playoffs this year. Before playoffs people were still questioning him.

/thread

You can't carry an MVP caliber load offensively and simultaneously be a lockdown defender 24/7 like a defensive specialist who does little else will. No perimeter player has the energy to do that.

Later in his career Kobe was incredibly lazy on defense often, but when he locked in he was as every bit as good as any other perimeter defender on the ball. I wouldn't characterize Kawhi as lazy by any means, but you need to look at the playoffs to get an accurate idea of Kawhi's defensive ability.

LOL just watch this video

Watch on YouTube

[johanliebert]

He's still a blackhole on defense, Khris Middleton basically vanished in that series with Kawhi on him.

cause middleton lost his one strength at his position and that's his length. Outside of that i've never seen him blow by any player even average defenders.

[johanliebert]

I never seen a player impose himself physically on Giannis like Kawhi did. He cut him off like he was a small guard

i recall Giannis blowing by kawhi often...by design as the raptors formed a wall for giannis.

[Peregrine01]

Kawhi got way too much credit for his defense against Giannis. Truthfully, Gasol deserved the lion’s share of the credit but we almost never hear his name.

[ShotCreator]

Eric Gordon is an “elite” isolation defender every single year and constantly drags down Rockets lineups with his defense.

There is way more to defense than that.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Eric Gordon is an “elite” isolation defender every single year and constantly drags down Rockets lineups with his defense.

There is way more to defense than that.

Eric Gordon is a very good 1 on 1 defender, but he's also 6'3" and posts nowhere near the 1 on 1 defensive #'s of Kawhi. A bit of a false equivalency. Kawhi ends up still being a net positive.

[ShotCreator]

Eric Gordon is an “elite” isolation defender every single year and constantly drags down Rockets lineups with his defense.

There is way more to defense than that.

Eric Gordon is a very good 1 on 1 defender, but he's also 6'3" and posts nowhere near the 1 on 1 defensive #'s of Kawhi. A bit of a false equivalency. Kawhi ends up still being a net positive.

He could be a net positive and thw isolation numbers aren’t gonna do a good job of showing it. And how many isolation possessions do you think offenses utilize per game? Let alone how many Kawhi defends.

This isn’t any different from Rockets fans going on about Hardens defensive post-up numbers in 2018 which led the league(on high volume too) to say he was a good defender. He spent that entire season up until February not fighting through screens and getting burned on back door cuts and had poor close outs.

That’s one thing Kawhi is noticeably weaker at since 2017, closing out strong.

A guy is gonna defend on 70 - 80 possessions in a game. Most of those will involve smart help D.

[Jabroni Lames]

Eric Gordon is an “elite” isolation defender every single year and constantly drags down Rockets lineups with his defense.

There is way more to defense than that.

Andrea Bargnani was a very good post defender. Yep. That Andrea Bargnani.

He was completely useless in help defense, or any scheme that required coordination with teammates.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Eric Gordon is an “elite” isolation defender every single year and constantly drags down Rockets lineups with his defense.

There is way more to defense than that.

Eric Gordon is a very good 1 on 1 defender, but he's also 6'3" and posts nowhere near the 1 on 1 defensive #'s of Kawhi. A bit of a false equivalency. Kawhi ends up still being a net positive.

He could be a net positive and thw isolation numbers aren’t gonna do a good job of showing it. And how many isolation possessions do you think offenses utilize per game? Let alone how many Kawhi defends.

This isn’t any different from Rockets fans going on about Hardens defensive post-up numbers in 2018 which led the league(on high volume too) to say he was a good defender. He spent that entire season up until February not fighting through screens and getting burned on back door cuts and had poor close outs.

That’s one thing Kawhi is noticeably weaker at since 2017, closing out strong.

A guy is gonna defend on 70 - 80 possessions in a game. Most of those will involve smart help D.

Again, not a good comparison. The big difference for one is Kawhi is a wing and his size allows him to also guard smaller or bigger. Gordon is more limited to defending guards, and that size hurts him, even though he has a great wingspan and is super strong for his size. One is a net positive still quite easily, the other is a big net negative after you take away the perimeter defense of each guy. Yes Kawhi has declined on D, I think a lot of that is injuries and role. We see it nearly every time guys take on superstar level offensive burdens. Harden in OKC was actually known to be a good defender, he takes on the Rockets offensive load and suddenly he's a sieve. Kawhi made the leap in 15-16 (or arguably 16-17) as a scorer/MVP level player and what do you know, that's EXACTLY when he experienced a big drop off in defensive metrics.

[prophet_of_rage]

You realise the better you are in isolation the worse.your team will be because people.will pick you off and go headhunters weaker defenders. It's not like opposing coaches don't know how to find weak links. Oh Kawhi is defending Harden ... screen Kawhi with Powell's man and let's see what happens. Numbers are poor measures of defensive ability.

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[Ballings7]

Kawhi continues to pass the eye test, especially in 4th qtrs. He's not as consistent as he used to be, a little bit less agile.. due to a combo of offensive load + stability over a season.. but he's still a force in multiple different ways.

And, I still want Kawhi around the ball even if he isn't directly on him, more than anyone in the league.. either to help, switch, or steal or block it, or take him one on one if on him from the start.

Stats can't produce that intangible and looming, dynamic threat on every possession.

Raptor fan here.

Kawhi was definitely an elite defender in the playoffs, when he actually tried on defense. During the regular season he did a lot of floating and was saving his energy a lot more. Same thing that we've seen with a lot of star players over the years.

Anyone pulling up his regular season stats to prove that he's not that good anymore will likely be proven correct, but they're completely missing the boat on it's relevance. He's still got an elite gear when he needs it.

Yeah, this.

He was incredible in the playoffs, and much more paced and measured, selective in the regular season. He had to be, but still was and is a threat to stop a team's entire offensive possession or flowing run in a matter of a minute or two, at any point in a game. Especially in the 4th qtr where he'll be more active.

The Clippers will be like Miami from 2011-2013, but more individually talented defensively.