Jayson Tatum Is Struggling Because...

[BodieB]

His finishing close range is the only issue I've currently seen. Looks to me like he rushes a bit when he gets in range instead of using and trusting his length to finish confidently. I think he'll be all star level by the last 3rd of the season.

[ccie8030]

I think you're not going to find too many Boston fans or just NBA fans in general that have caught most of Boston's game this year to agree that he has been struggling (either than that Dallas abomination). He's rebounding better, he's chopped his 16ft<3pt shot percentage in about half and has taken his defense to another level this year where I wouldnt be shocked if he gets some all defense talk by the end of the year. Really the only thing that has been off is his finishing around the rim. And if you have watched Tatum before and look at his % at finishing around the rim his prior 2 seasons (63 and 67%), you know its going to be sooner or later he's going to pickup his shooting at the rim (just 47% this year).

So pretty much the dude has been pretty studily in every expected area from him, except for finishing around the rim, which we know he can do. The dude is damn good.

And just like that.. this thread can now go into the sunset. Duke pretty much summed it all up

[cl2117]

He's not struggling. /thread

[bisme37]

Tatum struggling? Tell that to Paul George.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

PG after the game: “It wasn’t the first time I was on a Tatum highlight, and it won’t be the last, I’m sure,” George responded with a smile. “That’s part of the game, that’s part of the game. I don’t buy into that. My job was to continue on and try to win the game."

“He’s special man, he’s a special talent. It says a lot about him when he has to go against myself, Pat, Kawhi, Moe and still pull his team together without Gordon in the lineup and still put up 30. It says a lot about his talent and his skill, but he’s good. He’s the reason the Celtics are off to the hot start they are.”

https://clutchpoints.com/clippers-news-paul-george-responds-celtics-jayson-tatum-comments-about-him/

[WillyJakkz]

You can tell who watches him play and who looks at box scores just by the posts here. He’s been great for Boston. Rebound, defense, shot selection all much improved. Making decisions on offense quicker, greatly reduced long 2s from his game and his shooting 3s and layups primarily, except for occasional lapse.

After this genius thread he finished the game 12-24 against 3 of the best perimeter players in the entire league, and while he has been bad at finishing around the rim- he gets there’s routinely and they will start to even out. Kids a stud plain and simple.

Weak comeback when you use stats to prove your point (12-24 fg) but neglect them for the other point (.408 fg on the yr prior to the game).

His current fg% is .412 which means it went up a .04. His 3pt% is lower than his rookie season while he also has doubled the amount of 3's per game.

Not gonna dog him because I like him as a player and this isn't what the thread is for. So as much as you tried to negate the "genius thread" what is the reason for his lower offensive percentages production? More usage?

[Darth Celtic]

You can tell who watches him play and who looks at box scores just by the posts here. He’s been great for Boston. Rebound, defense, shot selection all much improved. Making decisions on offense quicker, greatly reduced long 2s from his game and his shooting 3s and layups primarily, except for occasional lapse.

After this genius thread he finished the game 12-24 against 3 of the best perimeter players in the entire league, and while he has been bad at finishing around the rim- he gets there’s routinely and they will start to even out. Kids a stud plain and simple.

Weak comeback when you use stats to prove your point (12-24 fg) but neglect them for the other point (.408 fg on the yr prior to the game).

His current fg% is .412 which means it went up a .04. His 3pt% is lower than his rookie season while he also has doubled the amount of 3's per game.

Not gonna dog him because I like him as a player and this isn't what the thread is for. So as much as you tried to negate the "genius thread" what is the reason for his lower offensive percentages production? More usage?

somebody already proved how wrong you are and the reason and you haven't responded. So far we've had 14 games and 1 bad game where he went 1-18. Take that out and his splits are much, much better showing of how he has been all year long. He's been a star, and has had 1 really bad shooting game. By season end we'll have a better look with 82 games, not 14. But he for sure isn't struggling. He struggled 1 time, in a game we still won, where he still probably led in plus/minus.

[Feed Your Head]

I know I'm really high on him so of course i think this, but he is a course correction on his FG% in the paint away from being a superstar.

Unless the Celtics and him fall off like crazy, i think he's a lock for the all star game.

[VanWest82]

As a resident Tatum hater, I disagree that he's struggling. The problem is with the expectations that he's a star player or should be performing like a star (presumably because of his draft position and the fact he plays for the Celtics). He's a 2nd / 3rd option two way player. He's fine in that role. The issues show up when they treat him like a number one option which has happened in too many games this year. Celtics could really use Hayward.

[Scalabrine]

He got hot tonight from three but he's not all that and lacks the impact you want from even an allstar level player, let alone a superstar. I don't want to let tatum fans down but the dude reminds me of a rich man's Harrison Barnes, sorry fellas. He did shoot the ball well tonight and maybe i'm wrong, we'll see what happens with him.

a rich man's Harrison Barnes is a very good player.

[Duke4life831]

I know I'm really high on him so of course i think this, but he is a course correction on his FG% in the paint away from being a superstar.

Unless the Celtics and him fall off like crazy, i think he's a lock for the all star game.

Yup. Lets just say he begins to score at the paint at the same rate as he did last year (67%). These would be his splits.

23/7/2 on 46/39/79 shooting and a 56 TS%.

Definitely not all nba or anything like that. But that would definitely be all star worthy in the East this year. This is why I dont think most of anyone who has actually watched him this year things he's struggling at all. Really the only area he is really struggling from is at the rim, which again we have 2 years of sample size to know what kind of finisher at the rim he is. So I dont think anyone is afraid that, that area wont improve sometime throughout the year.

I also get you can do this kind of exercise with most players. But ya if you watch him, its clear he has been great in all but basically one area we already know hes good at.

[Duke4life831]

As a resident Tatum hater, I disagree that he's struggling. The problem is with the expectations that he's a star player or should be performing like a star (presumably because of his draft position and the fact he plays for the Celtics). He's a 2nd / 3rd option two way player. He's fine in that role. The issues show up when they treat him like a number one option which has happened in too many games this year. Celtics could really use Hayward.

I dont get this part. The issues show up when they treat him like a #1 option and that has happened too many times this year already. Boston is 11-3, the issues must not too severe then if they have that good of a record. Just look at last night, Boston treated him like a #1 option and he was the key reason they were in that game. Hell he was the one that dragged them into OT last night.

[itrsteve]

He has had his ups and downs this season, but this was a really strange time to start the thread, considering Tatum just scored 30 points on 50% shooting, at times facing two of the top perimeter defenders in the league.

Tatum is not struggling, but he does have areas of needed improvement. As others have pointed out, his game around the rim could improve. He needs to drive the lane with the realization that he will encounter contact and with the intent to score. Right now it seems like he frequently drives the lane with the expectation of contact and expectation of a foul call that often doesn't come. He hasn't had a very friendly whistle on those drives, but he needs to stop complaining about every non-call and drive to score instead of driving to shoot free throws. He would do well by copying from Kawhi, who yells instead of flails. That allows him to finish at the hoop and still get the calls.

Overall he's playing very well and is a main reason why the Celtics are 11-3 right now.

I like this assessment, a lot.

His bitching about non-calls is nearly automatic and slows him (or overworks him) getting to the other end of the court in a timely manner.

Last year it was his iso contested DeRozen shots; he fixed that... Now it's finishing at the rim, now he has to work on his ball english and not crying wolf so much.

The kid has a strong future. I know there were many that capped him as Rudy Gay at best will have a mouth full of crow to eat.

[VanWest82]

As a resident Tatum hater, I disagree that he's struggling. The problem is with the expectations that he's a star player or should be performing like a star (presumably because of his draft position and the fact he plays for the Celtics). He's a 2nd / 3rd option two way player. He's fine in that role. The issues show up when they treat him like a number one option which has happened in too many games this year. Celtics could really use Hayward.

I dont get this part. The issues show up when they treat him like a #1 option and that has happened too many times this year already. Boston is 11-3, the issues must not too severe then if they have that good of a record. Just look at last night, Boston treated him like a #1 option and he was the key reason they were in that game. Hell he was the one that dragged them into OT last night.

You make a good point. My counter would be that Boston seems to winning in spite of Tatum's poor shooting on anything that isn't a spot up three most nights. Given he isn't really giving them play making either it would seem that he's ill suited to be taking on a number one option load. Further, his current skill set looks more "spot up shooter / opportunistic scorer" to me than "give the kid the ball and get out of his way." There's way too much evidence over the last couple of years that he isn't a good iso or PnR option...yet anyways.

[Darth Celtic]

As a resident Tatum hater, I disagree that he's struggling. The problem is with the expectations that he's a star player or should be performing like a star (presumably because of his draft position and the fact he plays for the Celtics). He's a 2nd / 3rd option two way player. He's fine in that role. The issues show up when they treat him like a number one option which has happened in too many games this year. Celtics could really use Hayward.

I dont get this part. The issues show up when they treat him like a #1 option and that has happened too many times this year already. Boston is 11-3, the issues must not too severe then if they have that good of a record. Just look at last night, Boston treated him like a #1 option and he was the key reason they were in that game. Hell he was the one that dragged them into OT last night.

You make a good point. My counter would be that Boston seems to winning in spite of Tatum's poor shooting on anything that isn't a spot up three most nights. Given he isn't really giving them play making either it would seem that he's ill suited to be taking on a number one option load. Further, his current skill set looks more "spot up shooter / opportunistic scorer" to me than "give the kid the ball and get out of his way." There's way too much evidence over the last couple of years that he isn't a good iso or PnR option...yet anyways.

if they are winning in spite of him, why does he have the best plus/minus in the nba??

[sfernald]

I’m just so glad Ainge made him untouchable cause it turns out Ingram is the way better player with much more star potential.

Every trade for a star Danny refuses to do buries the Celts a little deeper in the grave.

[Duke4life831]

I’m just so glad Ainge made him untouchable cause it turns out Ingram is the way better player with much more star potential.

Every trade for a star Danny refuses to do buries the Celts a little deeper in the grave.

Sarcasm?

I agree I'd take Ingram over Tatum. But Ainge has to be feeling pretty good about Tatum and Brown right now. Tatum is a 21/7/2 with great defense at just 21 years old on a team that is 11-3. I think Ainge is feeling damn good at the moment.

[VanWest82]

I dont get this part. The issues show up when they treat him like a #1 option and that has happened too many times this year already. Boston is 11-3, the issues must not too severe then if they have that good of a record. Just look at last night, Boston treated him like a #1 option and he was the key reason they were in that game. Hell he was the one that dragged them into OT last night.

You make a good point. My counter would be that Boston seems to winning in spite of Tatum's poor shooting on anything that isn't a spot up three most nights. Given he isn't really giving them play making either it would seem that he's ill suited to be taking on a number one option load. Further, his current skill set looks more "spot up shooter / opportunistic scorer" to me than "give the kid the ball and get out of his way." There's way too much evidence over the last couple of years that he isn't a good iso or PnR option...yet anyways.

if they are winning in spite of him, why does he have the best plus/minus in the nba??

C'mon man, you know that I didn't say that or mean it that way. His three point shooting and team defense are obviously helping the cause. It's the possessions where he's being used as a number one option (i.e. having to use more than two dribbles, create for others, etc.) that's causing the problems. As for the +/- I'd surmise that's due to a variety of factors, one of which is that he appears to be the only decent two way forward on their roster. It's a pretty steep drop off between Tatum and Semi Ojeleye or Grant Williams.

[MagicBagley18]

You can tell who watches him play and who looks at box scores just by the posts here. He’s been great for Boston. Rebound, defense, shot selection all much improved. Making decisions on offense quicker, greatly reduced long 2s from his game and his shooting 3s and layups primarily, except for occasional lapse.

After this genius thread he finished the game 12-24 against 3 of the best perimeter players in the entire league, and while he has been bad at finishing around the rim- he gets there’s routinely and they will start to even out. Kids a stud plain and simple.

Weak comeback when you use stats to prove your point (12-24 fg) but neglect them for the other point (.408 fg on the yr prior to the game).

His current fg% is .412 which means it went up a .04. His 3pt% is lower than his rookie season while he also has doubled the amount of 3's per game.

Not gonna dog him because I like him as a player and this isn't what the thread is for. So as much as you tried to negate the "genius thread" what is the reason for his lower offensive percentages production? More usage?

Actually, I used stats to reference how asinine and poorly timed this thread was- not as a referendum on his season. I watch his game and it’s clear you haven’t this season. If you did you’d see the shots he’s taking and making and also he shots he’s missing. the shots he’s struggling on, They are all within close range to the basket which for his development is great news because those shots last year would be mid range or deep 2s- the worst shot in today’s nba.

He’s made a conscience effort to attack, attack, attack and it’s going to pay dividends for his career but it’s something he isn’t used to so his dip in fg will reflect that but it will even out. Not only that but that % reflects a historically bad 1/18 shooting night of which many of those shots were good looks, not forced that he just didn’t hit for whatever reason- his splits excluding that aberration are more in line.

It’s the shots he’s no longer taking that’s the story, not what his % is. He’s cut the amount of deep 2s he used to love -almost entirely out of his game. While He may never be an elite closer at the basket - he also won’t be as bad as he is now (which I think is the worst in the nba currently)

Rebounds, assists, steals are all up as are his minutes by about a 3 mpg average and he cut the amount of shots from 16 ft to the 3 point line in half. He was and I believe still is, leading the league in plus minus. He’s shooting almost double the amount of 3s he took last year and shooting at almost 40% (39% to be exact). He’s been great for us and his defense has been vastly improved.

So again your post was trash and it’s clear you haven’t watched a lot of his games at all and I’m willing to bet your entire synopsis is based upon box scores and nothing else- the idiot argument. Watch the games and you’ll see he’s been great for us

[MemphisX]

I am one of the biggest Jayson Tatum critics. IMO he is evolving just fine. Never had the superstar trajectory some imposed on him as a rookie but will be a damn good player.

[sfernald]

I’m just so glad Ainge made him untouchable cause it turns out Ingram is the way better player with much more star potential.

Every trade for a star Danny refuses to do buries the Celts a little deeper in the grave.

Sarcasm?

I agree I'd take Ingram over Tatum. But Ainge has to be feeling pretty good about Tatum and Brown right now. Tatum is a 21/7/2 with great defense at just 21 years old on a team that is 11-3. I think Ainge is feeling damn good at the moment.

He's a fine player no argument there, but he could have got Anthony Davis for Tatum plus change if he had wanted I guarantee it and he passed. Anthony Davis. There's just no comparison in my mind and now the Lakers are set to challenge for a championship for the next few years. For the celtics, they'll be an underdog playoff team as usual but there's no way they make it past the second round.