If LeBron James & KD never became ring chasers, where would they be in all-time list?

Lockdown504090 · Post #61 » by **Lockdown504090** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 12:10 pm

I hope durant serves as a cautionary tale that there are limits to team stacking. Not only for your reputation, but in terms of individual enjoyment. Even if the media wasnt on his ass and even if he were a less sensitive guy, it still doesnt feel the same to train twice a day every day for your whole life, become a goat level scorer, and just feel like you arent the leader of the team because someone you feel who isnt as good as you is getting the credit. Anyone whos had a job can relate.

NbaAllDay · Post #62 » by **NbaAllDay** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 12:18 pm

Do the people that make these threads purposely start them with the intent that their disdain and bias against a player would be noticed in order to attempt to rile people up?

Or do you legitimately believe you are making a fair and unbiased judgement around each of their careers under this hypothetical.

I really hope it's the former because you do not do a very good job at hiding the agenda of this thread.

KrAzY3 · Post #63 » by **KrAzY3** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 12:22 pm

BigDocta898 wrote:That lebron could of made any team great

Then explain this to me.

Why did the previous year's Cavs team with LeBron only win 45 games then? Are you actually suggesting that LeBron got 21 wins better from one season to the next? That's pretty darn magical, or he just really, really, really sucked the year before, which is it?

Or, may be the Cavaliers made some key changes, including adding an All-Star point guard. I guess in a few years, people will be acting like this year's Lakers were all garbage besides LeBron to, and the only reason they won this many games was because of the magical LeBron. No other roster changes had anything to do with the tremendous improvement in the record.

At this point the arguments are becoming comical.

Marcus_Shart · Post #64 » by **Marcus_Shart** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 12:31 pm

KrAzY3 wrote:
BigDocta898 wrote:That lebron could of made any team great

Then explain this to me.

Why did the previous year's Cavs team with LeBron only win 45 games then? Are you actually suggesting that LeBron got 21 wins better from one season to the next? That's pretty darn magical, or he just really, really, really sucked the year before, which is it?

Or, may be the Cavaliers made some key changes, including adding an All-Star point guard. I guess in a few years, people will be acting like this year's Lakers were all garbage besides LeBron to, and the only reason they won this many games was because of the magical LeBron. No other roster changes had anything to do with the tremendous improvement in the record.

At this point the arguments are becoming comical.

via Imgflip Meme Generator

JN61 · Post #65 » by **JN61** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:07 pm

Outside of top 10.
LeBron around 15-17 and Durant around 20-25.

Brofessor24 · Post #66 » by **Brofessor24** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:15 pm

You know what I call ring chasing? Wanting to win championships. The fact that they were key players on championship winning teams is never gonna be a negative thing IMO.

Winning championships only made me admire their accomplishments even more. They are both spectacular players and I will always have the utmost respect for their accomplishments.

JN61 · Post #67 » by **JN61** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:15 pm

Pennebaker wrote:LeBron was already the best player I've ever seen even before he went to Miami. And I was a die-hard Jordan fan from the 80s to the Wizards. But LeBron was different from anyone else. Bigger, stronger, faster, elite passer, best perimeter defender in the league, lethal scorer. The ideal basketball player. So he was going to be top 10 regardless.

KD is a totally different story. He needed the rings more than LeBron did. And even then they still didn't help him that much.

It was clear he couldn't win without playing with other hall of famers. So no he wouldn't be in top 10 without teaming up. He wouldn't have won championships.

Joerezz7 · Post #68 » by **Joerezz7** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:21 pm

BigDocta898 wrote:
Drygon wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:Lebron stole a chip for his hometown that it otherwise had NO business winning. Kyrie and Love are absolute frauds. He's as much a ring maker as he is a ring chaser.

KD? That's hard to say. He has no comparable - he joined a 73 win team, so it's impossible to say if he could have elevated his own team in his prime.

Kyrie an absolute fraud?

The man averaged 27 ppg in the Finals series & saved LeBron's legacy with a spectacular game-winning shot.

Watch on YouTube

Also, GSW lost NBA Finals 2016 due to injuries Bogut/Iggy/Curry dealt.

Which is exactly how Toronto Raptors (your team) won NBA Finals 2019 with exact same circumstances.

Bankai wrote:LeBron became a ring chaser and people still arguably put him as the GOAT over Jordan. I think his legacy is already very high.

Durant's legacy however has taken a hit even if it's still high. Though it has to do more with his off court shenanigans than his on court.

Eh, LeBron himself has off court shenanigans that's easily worse than anything KD has done.

Watch on YouTube

And the warriors won in 2015 because of injuries too Love and Irving the warriors are the luckiest team ever.

People forget about this. People act like the Warriors is this great championship team. All they did was beat a injured Cavs team. Lebron beat them 2 games by himself in 2015. The Warriors never beat a healthy Cavs team without KD and there is no logical reason to believe that they could beat a healthy Cavs team without KD.

By the way Steph dropped 36 in game 7 against OKC. He wasn’t injured at all. KD is the reason why Steph has 2 rings

Marcus_Shart · Post #69 » by **Marcus_Shart** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:22 pm

JN61 wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:LeBron was already the best player I've ever seen even before he went to Miami. And I was a die-hard Jordan fan from the 80s to the Wizards. But LeBron was different from anyone else. Bigger, stronger, faster, elite passer, best perimeter defender in the league, lethal scorer. The ideal basketball player. So he was going to be top 10 regardless.

KD is a totally different story. He needed the rings more than LeBron did. And even then they still didn't help him that much.

It was clear he couldn't win without playing with other hall of famers. So no he wouldn't be in top 10 without teaming up. He wouldn't have won championships.

Yeah, it would be really hard to put him over someone like Hakeem if all he had were like 5 finals losses. Which is likely where he'd be without multiple all star teammates.

Post #70 » by **dockingsched** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:41 pm

You can’t ring chase when you’re the one that drives the entire operation.

You take Lebron off any team he’s been on and it’s laughable to think they're even a contender to win the title.

Idea Lebron ring chased isn’t even worthy of a thoughtful response.

thebigbird · Post #71 » by **thebigbird** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:51 pm

People hate Lebron so much that they're out here trying to say LeBron's first stint Cavs had good supporting casts lol. Yeah, so good that they immediately became the worst team in the NBA the second he left them. They went 60-16 in 2010 when Lebron played, and 1-5 when he didn't. Without Lebron those teams would be fighting for the #1 pick.

And I can't help but laugh when I hear people say the Cavs "added an all-star point guard." Mo Williams made exactly 1 all-star game in his career, as an injury replacement, because the Cavs had the best record in the NBA. That's not "adding an all-star point guard."

Saciid11 · Post #72 » by **Saciid11** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:51 pm

Ring chasers ??

Lebron is the main reason why the teams he won with have those rings. With or without ring Lebron is would have still been a top 3 player of all time and the only guy that can challenge Jordan for the GOAT status.

Although Durant joined best team in the league to get his ring, I still consider him one of the best scorer yo ever play the game. A top 10-15 player all time... I would even rank him higher then Garnet, Dirk, Karl Malone, Barkley.. on tier as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem.

Drygon · Post #73 » by **Drygon** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 2:56 pm

Saciid11 wrote:Ring chasers ??

Lebron is the main reason why the teams he won with have those rings. With or without ring Lebron is would have still been a top 3 player of all time and the only guy that can challenge Jordan for the GOAT status.

Although Durant joined best team in the league to get his ring, I still consider him one of the best scorer yo ever play the game. A top 10-15 player all time... I would even rank him higher then Garnet, Dirk, Karl Malone, Barkley.. on tier as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem.

Did KD join Cleveland Cavaliers?

I mean, they actually won NBA Finals 2016 against Warriors.

Marcus_Shart · Post #74 » by **Marcus_Shart** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 3:16 pm

Lebron is obviously crucial in every title he's won. Doesn't mean he'd win them organically though. If he stayed in Cleveland he doesn't get past Boston till 2013 for example. Probably loses to the Spurs that year, and the next, then Golden State comes on the scene. Who knows how it would have shook out, but I doubt he has 3 or as many finals appearances. Durant may have beat Boston in 2012 as well.

May have hurt Durants legacy more than he helped his own :lol:

Saciid11 · Post #75 » by **Saciid11** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 3:48 pm

Drygon wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:Ring chasers ??

Lebron is the main reason why the teams he won with have those rings. With or without ring Lebron is would have still been a top 3 player of all time and the only guy that can challenge Jordan for the GOAT status.

Although Durant joined best team in the league to get his ring, I still consider him one of the best scorer yo ever play the game. A top 10-15 player all time... I would even rank him higher then Garnet, Dirk, Karl Malone, Barkley.. on tier as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem.

Did KD join Cleveland Cavaliers?

I mean, they actually won NBA Finals 2016 against Warriors.

He joined the team that came back from 3-1 to beat his team, a team that won record 73 wins in season.

The4thHorseman · Post #76 » by **The4thHorseman** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 4:27 pm

JN61 wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:LeBron was already the best player I've ever seen even before he went to Miami. And I was a die-hard Jordan fan from the 80s to the Wizards. But LeBron was different from anyone else. Bigger, stronger, faster, elite passer, best perimeter defender in the league, lethal scorer. The ideal basketball player. So he was going to be top 10 regardless.

KD is a totally different story. He needed the rings more than LeBron did. And even then they still didn't help him that much.

It was clear he couldn't win without playing with other hall of famers. So no he wouldn't be in top 10 without teaming up. He wouldn't have won championships.

Bosh had won 3 playoff games in 7yrs before going to Miami while Love and Kyrie never even made the playoffs.

But yeah, they were HOF players at the time. :lol:

The4thHorseman · Post #77 » by **The4thHorseman** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 4:30 pm

Marcus_Shart wrote:
JN61 wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:LeBron was already the best player I've ever seen even before he went to Miami. And I was a die-hard Jordan fan from the 80s to the Wizards. But LeBron was different from anyone else. Bigger, stronger, faster, elite passer, best perimeter defender in the league, lethal scorer. The ideal basketball player. So he was going to be top 10 regardless.

KD is a totally different story. He needed the rings more than LeBron did. And even then they still didn't help him that much.

It was clear he couldn't win without playing with other hall of famers. So no he wouldn't be in top 10 without teaming up. He wouldn't have won championships.

Yeah, it would be really hard to put him over someone like Hakeem if all he had were like 5 finals losses. Which is likely where he'd be without multiple all star teammates.

Hakeem losing in the first round 8x is a better accomplishment than playing for a title?

Mujaki · Post #78 » by **Mujaki** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 4:31 pm

lakerz12 wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:About where they are since rings are largely an accomplishment of management

Sent from my SM-A520W using RealGM mobile app

So was it management that got LeBron to the Finals' 9 times so far?

Or just management's fault that he lost 6 of them?

Welp, seeing as how the Cavaliers disappeared off the face of the Earth both times he left and the Heat haven't really done anything since, you tell me.

Stark contract to Jordan leaving the Bulls and seeing them in the ECFs still the following season.

Marcus_Shart · Post #79 » by **Marcus_Shart** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 4:34 pm

The4thHorseman wrote:
Marcus_Shart wrote:
JN61 wrote:It was clear he couldn't win without playing with other hall of famers. So no he wouldn't be in top 10 without teaming up. He wouldn't have won championships.

Yeah, it would be really hard to put him over someone like Hakeem if all he had were like 5 finals losses. Which is likely where he'd be without multiple all star teammates.

Hakeem losing in the first round 8x is a better accomplishment than playing for a title?

No, but 3 finals appearances with 2 titles as the best player on your team is. This is in a fictional reality where Lebron never won. :crazy:

The4thHorseman · Post #80 » by **The4thHorseman** » Sun Feb 2, 2020 4:34 pm

Drygon wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:Ring chasers ??

Lebron is the main reason why the teams he won with have those rings. With or without ring Lebron is would have still been a top 3 player of all time and the only guy that can challenge Jordan for the GOAT status.

Although Durant joined best team in the league to get his ring, I still consider him one of the best scorer yo ever play the game. A top 10-15 player all time... I would even rank him higher then Garnet, Dirk, Karl Malone, Barkley.. on tier as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem.

Did KD join Cleveland Cavaliers?

I mean, they actually won NBA Finals 2016 against Warriors.

And they actually won with James being the only All-Star player on the team.