Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

[kobe808lak]

it’s hard for me to give someone the ‘GOAT’ status when they’ve lost more finals than they’ve won, especially when the guy he’s trying to pass has never lost a final.

It puzzles me how people continue to use the "losing in the finals" argument.

Using that same logic, let's say Jordan had led his team to the finals 4 more times but failed to beat the western conference opponent - would he be considered a worse player now? You'd basically be arguing that if he had lead his team to more wins and greater playoff success, he'd be a worse player.

Why is losing to the finals a blemish on your resume, but not making it to the finals isn't?

Its always been obviously silly, but it just hit me that these people literally think that conference championships have negative value for a players legacy...

Jimmy Butler really hurt his legacy this year by winning an Eastern Conference championship.

Right, that finals loss really hurts Jimmy Butler's career resume according to the logic here.

[Homer38]

If Lebron 3 peated in Miami he might have a chance but Jordan did it twice that’s the difference regardless
How many players won 3 times in a row twice

How many players lead a team in beating a 70 win team in the finals while 3-1 down?

Sent from my SM-G985F using RealGM mobile app

Jordan couldn't beat himself he WAS the 70 win team and He NEVER let a finals series go 7 games ...Jordan was the Monster people couldn't overcome thats the difference

Would Jordan have been a worse player if John Paxton would have missed his shot in game 6 in 1993 like Danny Green in game 5 this year?

If Paxton would have missed this shot, this series would had a Game 7 in Phoenix....

The Bulls make also a huge comeback in the fourth quarter in game 6 vs Portland in 1992 with Jordan on the bench...

[kobe808lak]

MJ could have never done what LeBron did: win 3 championships in 3 different teams and 2 different conferences. 90s was a
weak era and he all a stacked team, not so much impressive.

I wonder how many more championships MJ would have won if he too quit his team and just joined whoever had the best chance of winning a championship with.

He didn't have to leave, he had the greatest no.2 in the league on his wing and a great supporting cast..

[camby23]

When Jordan became the undisputed best player in the league, he never lost in the Playoffs other than when he came back after leaving the league.

When LeBron became the undisputed best player in the league, he lost multiple times in the finals.

Because it's a team game, not tennis or boxing. GSW 17 and 18 were BY FAR better team than Cavs. In 2015 he played with a bunch of role players (Kyrie and Love injured). The only final defeat you can blame him for is the 2011 finals.

You think Jordan won all 6 rings by himself? He was the best player in the league in late 80's but still lost 3 times in a row against Pistons because he didn't have enough help.

Give me one Bulls final opponent from the 90's comparable to the Warriors with Durant, Curry, Klay, Green and Iggy. Give me one final when Jordan played without Pippen and Grant/Rodman like LeBron in 2015

[Clutch0z24]

The fact whenever LBJ Fans or Media even mention Jordan in the GOAT "Debate" when saying LBJ is the GOAT makes no sense at all...If LeBron is already the GOAT in your eyes why bring up MJ? There should be No Debate and MJ Should not even be in the discussion cause LBJ should already be universally known as the best player ever...Which hes not...

When MJ retired no one was debating MJ Vs Magic or MJ Vs Kareem....It was there is MJ And then there was everyone else...MJ Stood alone as the GOAT universally and it remained that way...If LBJ wants to become the GOAT hes going to have to STEAL the thrown from MJ and Three peat with LA and have 1 more ring then MJ when its all said and done...Then there will be no Debate

[therealbig3]

The fact whenever LBJ Fans or Media even mention Jordan in the GOAT "Debate" when saying LBJ is the GOAT makes no sense at all...If LeBron is already the GOAT in your eyes why bring up MJ? There should be No Debate and MJ Should not even be in the discussion cause LBJ should already be universally known as the best player ever...Which hes not...

When MJ retired no one was debating MJ Vs Magic or MJ Vs Kareem....It was there is MJ And then there was everyone else...MJ Stood alone as the GOAT universally and it remained that way...If LBJ wants to become the GOAT hes going to have to STEAL the thrown from MJ and Three peat with LA and have 1 more ring then MJ when its all said and done...Then there will be no Debate

Nah that’s just your nostalgia talking. Plenty of people still wondered if Jordan was better than Kareem or Russell or Wilt, especially the old heads at the time. Over time, they’ve become forgotten and the Jordan media machine has convinced everyone that basketball began with Magic and Bird and Jordan came in and crushed them, and nobody since has even compared.

Which isn’t true.

[TrentTuckerRule]

The MJ vs LBJ discussion deserves its own forum.

[therealbig3]

I swear people look at everything Jordan with rose-colored glasses.

Never lost in his prime? Dude was winning MVPs and was certainly in his prime from 87-90. His legendary performance against the Celtics was in 86. Also makes no sense to completely discount 95. He definitely lost in his prime.

Never got swept? Literally got swept out of the playoffs in 86 and 87.

GOAT competition? You mean after the Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons got old and injured, that’s when Jordan started winning titles? Couldn’t get past a prime Detroit or Boston team, went up against an old Magic Johnson after Kareem retired, a hobbled Worthy, and a hobbled Scott. Yet people act like he beat the Bad Boy Pistons and the Showtime Lakers. Lmao, no he didn’t. And his other opponents in the Finals are nowhere near GOAT competition. The best teams he played in the East were the Knicks and Pacers, who were clearly outmatched in terms of talent.

And then you have people trying to give him credit for years in which he literally didn’t play! Jordan media machine definitely did its job, y’all are brainwashed lmao.

Kareem won just as much, won more MVPs, has more AS selections, and played for longer. Russell has almost twice as many titles, and the same number of MVPs. If GOAT just becomes a resume comparison where you list titles and MVPs, Jordan is 3rd at best.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

How many 11th overall teams decimated by injuries did Jordan get in the Finals?

This might be the easiest path ever by any team, don't give me this "hardest ever" BS.

[Zvaart]

It’ll never be good enough for some.

So many said if he could take out the unbeatable Warriors then he’d be the GOAT.

He did that down 3-1.

Then it was oh no he needs to win another one or with a third franchise...

So many said if he wins another one at a 3rd team that’s it he’s the GOAT.

He does it...oh if he wins another title or two THEN he’s the GOAT.



There’s nothing he hasn’t done and nothing more he has to prove. He’s the GOAT.

You'll never have consensus here, too many stans on both sides, and two many variables, different eras and ****

I don't like him or Jordan off the court, so i'm trying to stay objective, and for me he is the GOAT.

But indeed , whatever he does someone will hate on it.

[Bigfactsstackz]

I swear people look at everything Jordan with rose-colored glasses.

Never lost in his prime? Dude was winning MVPs and was certainly in his prime from 87-90. His legendary performance against the Celtics was in 86. Also makes no sense to completely discount 95. He definitely lost in his prime.

Never got swept? Literally got swept out of the playoffs in 86 and 87.

GOAT competition? You mean after the Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons got old and injured, that’s when Jordan started winning titles? Couldn’t get past a prime Detroit or Boston team, went up against an old Magic Johnson after Kareem retired, a hobbled Worthy, and a hobbled Scott. Yet people act like he beat the Bad Boy Pistons and the Showtime Lakers. Lmao, no he didn’t. And his other opponents in the Finals are nowhere near GOAT competition. The best teams he played in the East were the Knicks and Pacers, who were clearly outmatched in terms of talent.

And then you have people trying to give him credit for years in which he literally didn’t play! Jordan media machine definitely did its job, y’all are brainwashed lmao.

Kareem won just as much, won more MVPs, has more AS selections, and played for longer. Russell has almost twice as many titles, and the same number of MVPs. If GOAT just becomes a resume comparison where you list titles and MVPs, Jordan is 3rd at best.

So the Pistons were old now ?

[Clutch0z24]

MJs Finals Debut

Watch on YouTube

LBJ Finals Debut

Watch on YouTube

MJs Killer instinct just shows through your screen...Not even close

[Homer38]

I swear people look at everything Jordan with rose-colored glasses.

Never lost in his prime? Dude was winning MVPs and was certainly in his prime from 87-90. His legendary performance against the Celtics was in 86. Also makes no sense to completely discount 95. He definitely lost in his prime.

Never got swept? Literally got swept out of the playoffs in 86 and 87.

GOAT competition? You mean after the Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons got old and injured, that’s when Jordan started winning titles? Couldn’t get past a prime Detroit or Boston team, went up against an old Magic Johnson after Kareem retired, a hobbled Worthy, and a hobbled Scott. Yet people act like he beat the Bad Boy Pistons and the Showtime Lakers. Lmao, no he didn’t. And his other opponents in the Finals are nowhere near GOAT competition. The best teams he played in the East were the Knicks and Pacers, who were clearly outmatched in terms of talent.

And then you have people trying to give him credit for years in which he literally didn’t play! Jordan media machine definitely did its job, y’all are brainwashed lmao.

Kareem won just as much, won more MVPs, has more AS selections, and played for longer. Russell has almost twice as many titles, and the same number of MVPs. If GOAT just becomes a resume comparison where you list titles and MVPs, Jordan is 3rd at best.

So the Pistons were old now ?

Only 50-32 in 1991.It was not a elite team in 1991.

[GusFring]

The fact whenever LBJ Fans or Media even mention Jordan in the GOAT "Debate" when saying LBJ is the GOAT makes no sense at all...If LeBron is already the GOAT in your eyes why bring up MJ? There should be No Debate and MJ Should not even be in the discussion cause LBJ should already be universally known as the best player ever...Which hes not...

When MJ retired no one was debating MJ Vs Magic or MJ Vs Kareem....It was there is MJ And then there was everyone else...MJ Stood alone as the GOAT universally and it remained that way...If LBJ wants to become the GOAT hes going to have to STEAL the thrown from MJ and Three peat with LA and have 1 more ring then MJ when its all said and done...Then there will be no Debate

I think this is the best argument I've seen for goat status on here ever. I'm old enough to remember in the 90s there was no real debate on MJ's throne, lebron's bubble championship changes nothing. I get the desire for wanting to live to watch the greatest ever play for young people but you guys missed out.

[therealbig3]

I swear people look at everything Jordan with rose-colored glasses.

Never lost in his prime? Dude was winning MVPs and was certainly in his prime from 87-90. His legendary performance against the Celtics was in 86. Also makes no sense to completely discount 95. He definitely lost in his prime.

Never got swept? Literally got swept out of the playoffs in 86 and 87.

GOAT competition? You mean after the Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons got old and injured, that’s when Jordan started winning titles? Couldn’t get past a prime Detroit or Boston team, went up against an old Magic Johnson after Kareem retired, a hobbled Worthy, and a hobbled Scott. Yet people act like he beat the Bad Boy Pistons and the Showtime Lakers. Lmao, no he didn’t. And his other opponents in the Finals are nowhere near GOAT competition. The best teams he played in the East were the Knicks and Pacers, who were clearly outmatched in terms of talent.

And then you have people trying to give him credit for years in which he literally didn’t play! Jordan media machine definitely did its job, y’all are brainwashed lmao.

Kareem won just as much, won more MVPs, has more AS selections, and played for longer. Russell has almost twice as many titles, and the same number of MVPs. If GOAT just becomes a resume comparison where you list titles and MVPs, Jordan is 3rd at best.

So the Pistons were old now ?

Thomas missed a big chunk of that season with injuries and their bigs were basically all in their 30s and a year older. Thomas was 29, but his career ended at 32, so yeah, for him, he was old.

Their level of play that season was a big drop off compared to previous seasons, but hey, it helps the narrative that they were the prime Bad Boy Pistons, and that Jordan beat them after he taught Pippen how to play basketball.

[Homer38]

Read on Twitter

[jrask]

Lebron is pretty much locked into the #2 spot

[therealbig3]

The fact whenever LBJ Fans or Media even mention Jordan in the GOAT "Debate" when saying LBJ is the GOAT makes no sense at all...If LeBron is already the GOAT in your eyes why bring up MJ? There should be No Debate and MJ Should not even be in the discussion cause LBJ should already be universally known as the best player ever...Which hes not...

When MJ retired no one was debating MJ Vs Magic or MJ Vs Kareem....It was there is MJ And then there was everyone else...MJ Stood alone as the GOAT universally and it remained that way...If LBJ wants to become the GOAT hes going to have to STEAL the thrown from MJ and Three peat with LA and have 1 more ring then MJ when its all said and done...Then there will be no Debate

I think this is the best argument I've seen for goat status on here ever. I'm old enough to remember in the 90s there was no real debate on MJ's throne, lebron's bubble championship changes nothing. I get the desire for wanting to live to watch the greatest ever play for young people but you guys missed out.

You’re confusing opinion with fact and incorrectly assuming anyone picking LeBron over Jordan is too young to have watched both.

[jjgp111292]

About where I stand too. MJ's still #1 but LeBron has SOLIDIFIED the #2 spot.

[The_Hater]

Lebron has been top 2 for quite awhile now, he didn’t need 2020 to solidly that.