Is Kevin Durant overrated when people says he's clearly above James Harden?

[laloo]

There's only one circumstance I'd take Harden over KD, and that's as my #1 for a regular season. Harden is much more durable while handling more minutes and being just as deadly (if not more so) against regular season defense/officiating. As a regular season #2 or in the playoffs, historically I'd take KD. Maybe his Achilles tear will change things.

And the basis of this would be KD's playoff success with GSW?

[rand]

There's only one circumstance I'd take Harden over KD, and that's as my #1 for a regular season. Harden is much more durable while handling more minutes and being just as deadly (if not more so) against regular season defense/officiating. As a regular season #2 or in the playoffs, historically I'd take KD. Maybe his Achilles tear will change things.

And the basis of this would be KD's playoff success with GSW?

Yes, plus his performance in the 2012 Finals.

[kan_t]

I may be in the minority. No doubt that it's a lot easier to win a ring but strictly from performance speaking, his FMVP shouldn't be discredited. If anything it just shows that how great he was during that run because he won it over Curry/Klay. For people saying how he's benefited from playing with Curry/Klay. They're also benefited greatly in playoff from playing with KD. It goes both ways.

Unless Harden has shown that he could have similar dominant playoff run, it's all KD.

[kan_t]

I do not get why people say that Durant's titles are a total joke? Isn't the goal to win a championship?

Some people hold it against him because he won it too easy.

I understand that the rings may not mean as much to some people. But it just doesn't make sense to me that people discount his FMVP. He won it over another GOAT tier teammate not only one but twice. If you think that the Warriors were super team, being the best playoff player on the super team should be valued even more, not less.

[Drygon]

I do not get why people say that Durant's titles are a total joke? Isn't the goal to win a championship?

Because KD joined a GSW that choked a 3-1 lead in NBA Finals against a healthy Cavs team.

People are mad that he got a unique oppourtunity joining GSW due to a cap spike that may never happen again.

There's only one circumstance I'd take Harden over KD, and that's as my #1 for a regular season. Harden is much more durable while handling more minutes and being just as deadly (if not more so) against regular season defense/officiating. As a regular season #2 or in the playoffs, historically I'd take KD. Maybe his Achilles tear will change things.

KD was no different than James Harden as a playoff performer before joining GSW.

Their scoring & efficiency (TS%) are nearly identical, although Harden gets WAY less help than KD had.

There's only one circumstance I'd take Harden over KD, and that's as my #1 for a regular season. Harden is much more durable while handling more minutes and being just as deadly (if not more so) against regular season defense/officiating. As a regular season #2 or in the playoffs, historically I'd take KD. Maybe his Achilles tear will change things.

And the basis of this would be KD's playoff success with GSW?

Yes, plus his performance in the 2012 Finals.

His 2012 playoffs was more of an anomaly tbh.

I may be in the minority. No doubt that it's a lot easier to win a ring but strictly from performance speaking, his FMVP shouldn't be discredited. If anything it just shows that how great he was during that run because he won it over Curry/Klay. For people saying how he's benefited from playing with Curry/Klay. They're also benefited greatly in playoff from playing with KD. It goes both ways.

Unless Harden has shown that he could have similar dominant playoff run, it's all KD.

You can't say KD's rings should be discredited and propping up his stats at same it.

It's like eating the cake and have it.

[DonaldSanders]

James Harden isn't even close to KD.

[cpower]

KD is not a tier higher than Harden, i would argue Harden is actually more valuable than KD since he is able to maintain his ridiculous usage rate while still being effcient and getting his teammates involved. KD is also a lot more ISO focus than Harden, which hurts your team offense quite a bit. KD is a better pure scorer and he can defend 3 and 4 but not enough to separate him from Harden. This year I think the Nets will be a good defensive team but their offense will suffer and that will have something to do with KD's play style.

[laloo]

There's only one circumstance I'd take Harden over KD, and that's as my #1 for a regular season. Harden is much more durable while handling more minutes and being just as deadly (if not more so) against regular season defense/officiating. As a regular season #2 or in the playoffs, historically I'd take KD. Maybe his Achilles tear will change things.

And the basis of this would be KD's playoff success with GSW?

Yes, plus his performance in the 2012 Finals.

IMO, replacing KD with Harden on those teams would have had no effect on winning. So, for me, using the GSW period to rate KD higher than Harden is not correct.

[510TWSS]

why no poll

[rand]

There's only one circumstance I'd take Harden over KD, and that's as my #1 for a regular season. Harden is much more durable while handling more minutes and being just as deadly (if not more so) against regular season defense/officiating. As a regular season #2 or in the playoffs, historically I'd take KD. Maybe his Achilles tear will change things.

KD was no different than James Harden as a playoff performer before joining GSW.

Their scoring & efficiency (TS%) are nearly identical, although Harden gets WAY less help than KD had.

And the basis of this would be KD's playoff success with GSW?

Yes, plus his performance in the 2012 Finals.

His 2012 playoffs was more of an anomaly tbh.

Well there are a few important notes about these stats. Yes, if you compare KD's OKC playoff stats to Harden's HOU playoff stats, they are virtually equal right down to the Game Score. However, in these seasons Harden is on average almost 3 years older than KD who was 21 in his first OKC postseason. The period of KD's play (2010-2016) was defensively more difficult and slower (Harden's series had an average +5.2 pace) than Harden's (2013-2020; particularly 2020 and the defenseless bubble ball). And Harden only had significantly less help in his earlier Houston seasons (2013-2016, accounting for just 6 of his 15 Rockets series); beginning in 2017 he had an offensive ensemble that at least approximated the strength of what OKC KD had post-Harden (particularly in the CP3 seasons; OKC KD never played with a #2 that good). Nor is there any statistical evidence that the level of help had much impact on the quality of Harden's production; his usage actually went up which was what drove a small bump in scoring while his efficiency was identical. "More help" was less influential in this than the arrival of D'Antoni (a far better offensive coach than Scott Brooks) and his uber-Harden-centric offense.

As far as KD's 2012 season being an "anomaly", I don't buy that because statistically he was almost as good in 2013 (when his offensive cast was actually weaker with Harden's departure); one season being marginally the best in a population of six seasons doesn't qualify as an outlier in my book. A real anomaly is Harden's 2020, which was far superior to any of his other postseasons and has an explicable cause behind the difference (bubble ball).

Finally, we can compare pre-GS KD to Harden for reference, but I don't accept the idea that GS-KD shouldn't be considered at all. However much one wishes to attribute his success in those seasons to his help, the fact is he reached a level of play that is so far beyond anything Harden has ever done that dismissing it doesn't make sense to me. Of course we'll never know but I don't believe Harden could have done what KD did in his shoes, or even come close. FMVP KD happened and in my view it has to factor in when evaluating how good this player is, just as it would have factored in had GS KD been unimpressive.

[Kilroy]

I'd say pre-injury, KD was quite a bit better than Harden... After injury, the jury's still out.
I still say we need to see KD play again and be durable, before we put him right back where he was in the hierarchy, pre-injury.

He's a tall, lanky dude, and sometimes that's not a good thing with and injury like he sustained.

[pillwenney]

Difference is KD is an offensive wizard with a bag of offensive tricks that make him nearly impossible to defend. James Harden on the other hand is a 3-trick pony: 3's, layups, flops. That's it.

Funny, I don't think of KD having that many offensive tricks, really. I think his biggest trick by far is "Be one of the best shooters ever while being nearly 7 feet tall and very long."

Nonetheless, his unstoppability when the chips are down and defenses tighten is significantly higher, which is why he's better leading elite teams in the playoffs.

One could argue that Harden is a better floor raiser though--one of the all-time great floor-raisers, really. But when ranking all-time players like this, KD's advantage tends to be seen as more important.

[LesGrossman]

Durant shows up on the biggest stage, when Harden crumbles under pressure. Your cherry picked stats obviously dont show that. Leaving our Durants two titles and FMVPS, how pathetic is that?

I agree Durant is clearly better. But playing on that GS team makes his titles and fmvps kinda a joke.

Thats applies to everyone else playing in a manufactured superteam too, then? Or is that standard just for KD?

[LesGrossman]

If KD comes back close to how he left, he is the best player in the league plain and simple. Otherwise we'd have to see what the injury did to him. Cant believe how quickly people forget...recency bias i guess.

[DrPampiloni]

It's funny because they both were every day under the scrutiny of the same coach and GM for years. And the talent hierarchy was always clear to everybody involved. Also I feel really like all these comparison threads where OPs act dumbfounded because player X is unanimously regarded as better than player Y are started by people who only watch games involving player Y. What happened to the good old eye test?

To give you my two cents. Durant might not be the better scorer, but is clearly the better basketball player, based alone on the reason that he is super-effective whatever the system you put him in. Durant joined a team which had two straight finals appearances and three all-stars and was automatically the best player on the team from day one.

[ShotCreator]

Harden monopolises the efficient shots (layups/dunks and 3pt) and lets everybody else pick up the scraps.

Durant stays efficient in the (least efficient) midrange and allows others to benefit from his defense collapsing gravity and doesn't disappear from the floor without the ball in his hands.

This is the main reason why Durant remains effective during the playoffs, and why he is rated better than Harden.

Side note: This is the same reason why Jordan and Kobe are way more effective than Harden.

Maybe it's D'Antoni's fault. The few rare times Harden posted up these playoffs, he was highly successful. A couple of plays later, D'Antoni would call a timeout and then no more Harden post-ups.

Perhaps strangely, Durant and Harden would probably be an all time duo together

Harden monopolizes the best shots on the floor? Durant is a great off ball player?

You people make up complete nonsense the exact opposite of reality.

Durant didn’t even commit to setting screens in golden state, poster Bad Gatorade made a post just a year or so ago showing Harden’s presence on rye floor increases 3pters and shots at the rim for teammates.

A guy is getting doubled at damn near half court and it’s possible someone could even come up with that nonsense.

Which leads me to the obvious undeniable point, Harden CLEARLY put way more pressure on defenses than Durant ever has the past 3 seasons.

And is clearly and probably always been a more well rounded offensive player. Now that he topped his ability to volume score how could Durant possibly be better?

[UnbelievablyRAW]

If not for him joining the Warriors people would talk about KD the way they talk about Harden. He didn't accomplish anything more than Harden has in the playoffs without the Warriors and his numbers also dipped compared to his RS numbers just like Harden. He joins the Warriors and whoops the NBA now he's in the same tier as Bron? I don't understand