Report: Some of Kawhi teammates upset about Kawhi getting preferential treatment. Via bleacher report.

[Jabroni Lames]

Per that report:

"Players like Patrick Beverley, Montrezl Harrell and Lou Williams—Clippers bedrocks before the arrival of Leonard and George—bristled when Leonard was permitted to take games off to manage his body and to live in San Diego, which often led to him being late for team flights, league sources said. The team also allowed Leonard to dictate to Doc Rivers when he could be pulled from games, among other things. Tyronn Lue was on Rivers' bench for all of this, but the Clippers were Rivers' show."


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2913742-report-some-clippers-bristled-at-kawhi-missing-games-being-late-for-flights



Wow I wonder what’s going to happen next season and how this will be handled.

[thebigbird]

Nick Nurse on woj pod told a story of where the team lost a few games in a row in 2019 and they were having a team meeting and talking about ball movement

Guys were talking about passing the ball just to get it moving just to get some flow. Kawhi spoke up for the first time and said "I'm not passing the **** ball for hell. My job is to score and when I get double & triple teamed that's when its your job to score"

But like, yeah.

This isn't rec ball. This is a profession. Kawhi delivered when it mattered and so did his teammates. Ego aside, what are they playing for?

People blame Kawhi for their loss in the 2nd round. Dude was averaging 29, 9 and nearly 6 assists with 2.5 steals. His 3p% was lower, but he was regularly double teamed.

People blame Kawhi because he choked in the second half of three straight closeout games. 10-35 in the second half during games 5, 6, and 7, including 1-11 for 2 points in game 7. Plus, he let Jamal Murray cook his team for 40 points in game 7 without trying to stop him. When Murray was cooking the Lakers, LeBron took the challenge and shut him down. Kawhi deserves all the criticism he gets, and then some.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Remember when we used to read these SAME stories about MJ?

Remember when we used to read these SAME stories about LeBron?

Here's Jimmy Butlers BULLS team complaining about Butler getting treatment in 2016.....

You can find this for any star on a team that hasn't won.
Because it's ALWAYS like this when a superstar develops or is traded to a team.
They do get treated differently, that is why they are a star.

The difference and the winning starts when the star stops acting like a star and doesn't do this kind of stuff and is the hardest working guy on the team and sets the example of hard work ethic.

Kawhi was able to load manage last year in TOR because the guy was coming off a injury and no one knew. But had he stayed there and done this load management this year after signing a huge deal - it would have unraveled and ruffled the Raptors too.

The Clippers just saw there is no easy cheat way to the title.

MJ NEVER Load managed.
Load Management in his era was beating up on bad teams like the expansion Vancouver Grizzlies and having a 20 point lead at the end of the 3rd and sitting on the bench during the 4th quarter - and watching your bench hold the lead. This helped them learn to play and it showed MJ what bench guys he could trust.

These were some of the best games because it was the rare time you saw MJ laughing and having fun on the bench.

I do remember some stories about Kobe sitting out practices when he was recovering from injuries and pissing off his teammates because of preferential treatment. This was back in the Andrew Bynum years. I remember team chemistry was really bad and even Smush Parker was complaining about Kobe not practicing when everybody had to run drills and such.

[Duffman100]

Nick Nurse on woj pod told a story of where the team lost a few games in a row in 2019 and they were having a team meeting and talking about ball movement

Guys were talking about passing the ball just to get it moving just to get some flow. Kawhi spoke up for the first time and said "I'm not passing the **** ball for hell. My job is to score and when I get double & triple teamed that's when its your job to score"

But like, yeah.

This isn't rec ball. This is a profession. Kawhi delivered when it mattered and so did his teammates. Ego aside, what are they playing for?

People blame Kawhi for their loss in the 2nd round. Dude was averaging 29, 9 and nearly 6 assists with 2.5 steals. His 3p% was lower, but he was regularly double teamed.

People blame Kawhi because he choked in the second half of three straight closeout games. 10-35 in the second half during games 5, 6, and 7, including 1-11 for 2 points in game 7. Plus, he let Jamal Murray cook his team for 40 points in game 7 without trying to stop him. When Murray was cooking the Lakers, LeBron took the challenge and shut him down. Kawhi deserves all the criticism he gets, and then some.

Sure and fair. He probably should have taken Murray.

But I'd be curious to rewatch those games and see a) how his teammates were doing b) how he was being defended.

Nobody else showed up with him.

[thebigbird]

But like, yeah.

This isn't rec ball. This is a profession. Kawhi delivered when it mattered and so did his teammates. Ego aside, what are they playing for?

People blame Kawhi for their loss in the 2nd round. Dude was averaging 29, 9 and nearly 6 assists with 2.5 steals. His 3p% was lower, but he was regularly double teamed.

People blame Kawhi because he choked in the second half of three straight closeout games. 10-35 in the second half during games 5, 6, and 7, including 1-11 for 2 points in game 7. Plus, he let Jamal Murray cook his team for 40 points in game 7 without trying to stop him. When Murray was cooking the Lakers, LeBron took the challenge and shut him down. Kawhi deserves all the criticism he gets, and then some.

Sure and fair. He probably should have taken Murray.

But I'd be curious to rewatch those games and see a) how his teammates were doing b) how he was being defended.

Nobody else showed up with him.

I’m not a Kawhi fan at all and I think everyone knows that, but if he had went out swinging in games 6 and 7 I wouldn’t criticize him as much as I have been. But despite his teammates play, they had a 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the third quarter during game 6. Pandemic Paul gave them 33 points that game. They went into the 4th quarter with a 2 point lead, and they lose by 13. And then there’s game 7 which was just a disaster. If you play great and your teammates stink it up, you don’t deserve much blame. But if you stink it up with them, that’s another story.

[Duffman100]

People blame Kawhi because he choked in the second half of three straight closeout games. 10-35 in the second half during games 5, 6, and 7, including 1-11 for 2 points in game 7. Plus, he let Jamal Murray cook his team for 40 points in game 7 without trying to stop him. When Murray was cooking the Lakers, LeBron took the challenge and shut him down. Kawhi deserves all the criticism he gets, and then some.

Sure and fair. He probably should have taken Murray.

But I'd be curious to rewatch those games and see a) how his teammates were doing b) how he was being defended.

Nobody else showed up with him.

I’m not a Kawhi fan at all and I think everyone knows that, but if he had went out swinging in games 6 and 7 I wouldn’t criticize him as much as I have been. But despite his teammates play, they had a 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the third quarter during game 6. Pandemic Paul gave them 33 points that game. They went into the 4th quarter with a 2 point lead, and they lose by 13. And then there’s game 7 which was just a disaster. If you play great and your teammates stink it up, you don’t deserve much blame. But if you stink it up with them, that’s another story.

One thing I really think is fair is his playmaking.

Kawhi really benefited from having FVV, Lowry, Siakam and Gasol...all capable of generating offense.

He himself is not a great passer. And you saw Philly (2019), especially, trap him high in the halfcourt and force him to pass out of the double team. And it was often a holding breath moment which was rare with Kawhi.

He isn't meant to be a facilitator, he's a scorer. And you're right, he failed in that respect late in that series.

[Mikistan]

Nick Nurse on woj pod told a story of where the team lost a few games in a row in 2019 and they were having a team meeting and talking about ball movement

Guys were talking about passing the ball just to get it moving just to get some flow. Kawhi spoke up for the first time and said "I'm not passing the **** ball for hell. My job is to score and when I get double & triple teamed that's when its your job to score"

But like, yeah.

This isn't rec ball. This is a profession. Kawhi delivered when it mattered and so did his teammates. Ego aside, what are they playing for?

People blame Kawhi for their loss in the 2nd round. Dude was averaging 29, 9 and nearly 6 assists with 2.5 steals. His 3p% was lower, but he was regularly double teamed.

I get you Duff,
When I heard that quote, I didn't know how to feel.

Like yes, his job is to score as the 1A option and he's right if he gets doubled/tripled then the other guys need to capitalize.

What I think Kawhi doesn't fully understand is that there is a flow that the role players need to get in before they are able to simply perform in the way they need for success.
Bench guys talked about it when Demar was in Toronto before too, about how when you dont touch the ball for a while, even if you have an open shot its not as successful as when you've been touching the ball in rhythm getting that open shot.

Like some guys are most successful ball-stopping then breaking down defenses - some guys need to receive the ball on the run.
A point guard that initiates a set, passes the ball but then never gets the ball back is basically useless, but if you are flowing it around then everyone can have a chance to pick their spots for the best look.

Maybe the context for Kawhi's quote was about when defenses tighten up in the playoffs/second half of games etc.

Even though we won, i didn't love that quote from KL

[Los Manos]

I had never heard that about Kyle. That's kind of disappointing. I guess that's part of the benefits of having a strong organizational structure from the top on down, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Webster who reigned him in, he seems to understand how to talk to the players and it looks like Kyle respects him.

I remember this being a big fuss last season as well, most notably with Lowry and FVV.

Lowry made a big fuss about it, and I believe he was exempt from practises and shoot around as to load management his wrist injury (Don’t quote me on this).

Weird I have no recollection of this at all. Article?

From my recollection a lot of it was kept under wraps until closer to the end of the season. Look at these quotes from FVV from an article at the start of the Finals:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/maestro-load-management-key-raptors-playoff-success/

“It wasn’t a matter of trusting [that Leonard would be ready for the playoffs],” says Raptors guard Fred VanVleet. “It was a matter of waiting – ‘All right, he’s resting, but what the hell is he resting for?’”

“The only thing is he doesn’t really talk a whole lot so you never really knew when he was or wasn’t going to play and they certainly didn’t post his schedule on the wall so we knew what games he wasn’t going to play.

“A lot of times we wouldn’t find out until five minutes before he went out for the game so halfway through [the season],” says VanVleet. “So I started asking him, ‘Hey man, you playing?’ and I’d get some extra shots up because I knew I was going to start on the second night of back-to-backs.”

Those close to the team acknowledge there were some awkward moments in the early going as Leonard’s reserved personality, sporadic schedule and on-going speculation on where he might land in free agency were hiccups that had to be overcome in the team-building process.

“It all makes sense when you get to this point,” said VanVleet. “Throughout the season we’re all grinding, we’re all hurting, we’re all having dog days.

“I certainly would have liked to take some time off for my back a couple of times, but that was a plan this team had and you trust the medical staff. They put together a good plan, and it worked.”

There were certainly rumblings of discontent as guys like FVV & Kyle struggled with back injuries and the decision was made to keep playing through it to manage the injury rather than resting. I don't think Kyle ever publicly spoke about it after returning early Jan 2019 from a few weeks off to treat his back where he said it would be an issue all year. But it was certainly mooted later in the year by the media that as the all-star game got closer there were occasions where Kyle made the choice himself not to practice against team wishes and it was felt he was losing the renewed discipline & trust the team had demanded in pre-season.

[Homer38]

Great point by Shannon...

Read on Twitter

[Jabroni Lames]

Nick Nurse on woj pod told a story of where the team lost a few games in a row in 2019 and they were having a team meeting and talking about ball movement

Guys were talking about passing the ball just to get it moving just to get some flow. Kawhi spoke up for the first time and said "I'm not passing the **** ball for hell. My job is to score and when I get double & triple teamed that's when its your job to score"

This is waaay out of context... Nurse actually framed what Kawhi did as a good thing. Here's the actual quote:

"We were talking about moving the ball, getting a little bit more ball movement," Nurse set the scene. "I think that rolls off everybody's tongue all the time really easily - both coaches, players, media, fans, whatever … it was getting a lot of momentum, especially from the second unit guys and the guys around and the meeting was kinda picking up some momentum very strongly and they were saying 'sometimes we just need to pass it for the hell of it, just to move it, just to circulate it,' all those words that we use.

"Kawhi held up his hand and said 'I ain't passing for the (expletive) hell of it' and he said 'my job's to score and then to draw double and triple teams then when I do, then it's your job to score' and it was very well-timed and very well-said by him and important.

https://ca.nba.com/news/toronto-raptors-head-coach-nick-nurse-talks-rapture-new-book-kawhi-leonard-story-kyle-lowry-leadership/12wpl0ksv5o9g1psx5mmuum9es

[narmerguy]

Posted this on the raptors board, that in fairness it was reported that there were issues in the raptors locker room around January / February 2019 due to Kawhi's special treatment. Definite rumblings that the younger guys started voicing unrest over the disparity of treatment. And it was also reported that Kyle had to be reigned in by management when he started following Kawhi's lead regarding practice habits and general discipline that had begun to deteriorate mid-season.

Ultimately the difference is that management did step in and address the issue. It sounds like the Clippers did not. And that's the difference between a franchise with a chip and one that doesn't.

That's the big difference? It's not that one of them had an injured finals opponent? Feel like raps fans are both overrating their team with Kawhi and also talking down about him since leaving.

[Los Manos]

Posted this on the raptors board, that in fairness it was reported that there were issues in the raptors locker room around January / February 2019 due to Kawhi's special treatment. Definite rumblings that the younger guys started voicing unrest over the disparity of treatment. And it was also reported that Kyle had to be reigned in by management when he started following Kawhi's lead regarding practice habits and general discipline that had begun to deteriorate mid-season.

Ultimately the difference is that management did step in and address the issue. It sounds like the Clippers did not. And that's the difference between a franchise with a chip and one that doesn't.

That's the big difference? It's not that one of them had an injured finals opponent? Feel like raps fans are both overrating their team with Kawhi and also talking down about him since leaving.

My only point being that both teams had reported discontent in the locker room during the regular season. However by the end of the regular season time the raptors had addressed the issues, got everyone on the same page and pulling in the right direction. Despite the issues in the locker room, come playoff time the team was united and had worked through the earlier misgivings that Kawhi was receiving special treatment.

The Clippers quite clearly never turned that corner and management has a lot to do with that, ensuring that issues aren't allowed to fester but are addressed and put to bed. If the raptors locker room had been divided they would never have won a chip.

[Benedict_Boozer]

The load management stuff is pathetic and always was. I'm glad it got exposed and Kawhi is finally getting called out for it by his teammates. That stuff is all gravy when you win, but you better deliver in the playoffs if you are going to take games off and make your teammates grind and carry you into good playoff seed.

[Pharmcat]

I posted this on the other thread but it seems like it should have gone in this thread so here it is:


don't blame the other guys , they are there busting their butts every game while kwahi is skipping games chilling. What has he done for the clippers to get that type of treatment? Of course stars get preferential treatment (i.e. their boys can fly on team plane, etc) but kwahi has taken it to a whole other level . No other star has made a mockery of regular season like leonard has going to lebron, jordan , kobe, malone, stockton, harden, etc. It's a joke.

[Ckay]

[Homer38]

I hope that means that the load management(like 15-20 games off or more in a year) in the NBA will not become the norm in 5-10 years.

It would be awful for the NBA.

[NoZoLakers]

The load management stuff is pathetic and always was. I'm glad it got exposed and Kawhi is finally getting called out for it by his teammates. That stuff is all gravy when you win, but you better deliver in the playoffs if you are going to take games off and make your teammates grind and carry you into good playoff seed.

the games off is to much, limited mins wouldve been better n less practice time/drills like Kobe n Wade got as they got older

[NoZoLakers]

Posted this on the raptors board, that in fairness it was reported that there were issues in the raptors locker room around January / February 2019 due to Kawhi's special treatment. Definite rumblings that the younger guys started voicing unrest over the disparity of treatment. And it was also reported that Kyle had to be reigned in by management when he started following Kawhi's lead regarding practice habits and general discipline that had begun to deteriorate mid-season.

Ultimately the difference is that management did step in and address the issue. It sounds like the Clippers did not. And that's the difference between a franchise with a chip and one that doesn't.

to be fair, Tor wasnt a franchise with a chip till after that season

[jason bourne]

Should have stayed in Toronto

My hottie girl is gone and said good-bye. She's in some other guy's arms now

Now, we know why he didn't join the Lakers. LeBron and AD would not have put up with load management.

[levon]

The load management stuff is pathetic and always was. I'm glad it got exposed and Kawhi is finally getting called out for it by his teammates. That stuff is all gravy when you win, but you better deliver in the playoffs if you are going to take games off and make your teammates grind and carry you into good playoff seed.

It's funny to me that people use the Toronto title as evidence that load management works, but not a peep out of those people when the results fall flat. It was always stupid trying to judge the efficacy of a "medical" treatment based on championship success. People should call load management what it is: a financial de-risker to try to maximize Kawhi's playing years for his next giant contract.