Win or Loss for Leon Rose & the Knicks this off-season?

[iLLmatic860]

the knicks will always bomb in FA because no good FA wants to go there.

they have no assets or any asset(singular) they want to keep everybody would want in a trade

they have oodles of cash with no one to spend it on. hayward going elsewhere was a no brainer

as for westbrook, i get the feeling he and harden will stay. hou wants to play hardball w/ harden, westbrook's contract is impossible to move and leon imposed self restraint by declaring he's not giving into rw's contract. it may be the "smart" thing to do but the result is the same.

all aggravated by covid. if i'm a player at least i want to be able to go out and breath some fresh air, and a dank grey megalopolis is just not my idea of spending free time

= leon rose and the knicks will be in a perpetual state of "loss". there's no squeezing blood out of a rock here. there ain't enough lipstick in the world for this pig

their only course of action is make like a small market team and develop young players

NYC is awesome. Pretty sure most people LOVE the city.

That's not the issue. The issue is they're a loser team, and players typically don't want to sign with loser teams if they can get similar money elsewhere.

The location is fantastic. It's just not as big of a pull as the media makes it out to be. But it can definitely be a factor if the Knicks also give free agents an opportunity to play meaningful basketball.

well the elephant in the room is dolan of course. and deandre killed ANY chance nyk had in the FA world when he steered kyrie and kd away from the knicks.

but i live in nyc, born but not raised and have been here for 42years. on the one hand i feel safe because we understand the importance of the covid restrictions, queens sex clubs aside LOL, nonetheless it is stifling here and residents in my area are leaving in droves. not to say this would hinder any well paid millionaire athlete but in today's world there are too many other options

Lol Kyrie steered Kd to Nets. DJ just followed those 2

[OrangeBlueSkies]

They should still get Westbrook, as soon as Houston admits defeat and trades him for a pair of 2nd rounders.

We will only deal for Westbrook if they give us 2nd rounders.

[OrangeBlueSkies]

Westbrook is the missing piece. They lack a starting level guard pretty bad and Payton,Frank, and Dennis won't cut it if they have playoff aspirations. With Westbrook,Barrett,and Robinson I think the Knicks could be a 5th-6th seed in the East.

I'd say B- so far, my gut instinct tells me Toppin is going to be an all-star and this isn't the Knicks drafting Mike Sweetney or Macej Lampe two complete busts from the early 2000's.

Yeah we know that RWB is that missing piece right now... but why? Just because he’s a star level PG? He’s on a terrible contract ... and he also can’t shoot.

So will he really fix the Knicks problems ?

The New York Knicks have their motives aligned. Russell Westbrook will not be coming to New York unless the Rockets give up assets.

[toodarkmark]

As someone who suffered as a Knicks fan for 32 years, I can't believe people think tanking is success. "We didn't give out any bad contracts" is a good way of saying that no one wanted to sign with them.

Ok, look. The question is moot. James Dolan owns the team. They will be in the lottery next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. Leon Rose will be fired at some point. They will still be in the lottery after they hire their next president, GM, coach, whoever. As long as James Dolan owns the team, it's a loss.

[Lalouie]

NYC is awesome. Pretty sure most people LOVE the city.

That's not the issue. The issue is they're a loser team, and players typically don't want to sign with loser teams if they can get similar money elsewhere.

The location is fantastic. It's just not as big of a pull as the media makes it out to be. But it can definitely be a factor if the Knicks also give free agents an opportunity to play meaningful basketball.

well the elephant in the room is dolan of course. and deandre killed ANY chance nyk had in the FA world when he steered kyrie and kd away from the knicks.

but i live in nyc, born but not raised and have been here for 42years. on the one hand i feel safe because we understand the importance of the covid restrictions, queens sex clubs aside LOL, nonetheless it is stifling here and residents in my area are leaving in droves. not to say this would hinder any well paid millionaire athlete but in today's world there are too many other options

Lol Kyrie steered Kd to Nets. DJ just followed those 2

forget the timeline. deandre had just spent a year at nyk and he didn't like it at all. he didn't like how he was being used and he told kd don't go to nyk. it just reinforced kyrie growing up as a net fan and kd not being enamoured w/ the knicks as "king of ny"

[Richard4444]

I have mixing feelings about this ofseason.

The bad

1) We were not aggressive in this draft. We could have got more high potential rookies like Hampton. We could have bought a more second-rounders pick to get a PG. In the end, we have sold a second draft pick. I know the roster has 9 still raw players from the past 4 drafts and it's tough to try to develop so many failed players, but I don't see a point in having 6 mediocre vet players on the roster.

2) Randle and Payton are still on the roster. If we are building a roster centered on 2 poor shooter players like RJ and Mitch, there is no reason to keep no shooters vets that only hurt spacing.

3) We could have got rid of some of the raw players like Frank, Knox, and Dennis. I am tired of waiting to see some evolution in their games. Maybe it's not smart to just trade them for any offer or giving away like fillers in a bigger trade. But I would rather have new blood on the roster. Someone to be hopeful about it.

4) We don't have "starting material" guards on the roster.

The good

1) It was a seller's market which has surprised me considering the recession. I thought teams would withhold investments. Atlanta, Detroit, and Charlotte were aggressive buyers. It's wise for the Knicks to avoid overpaying FAs. We got some cheap vets

2) We got 4 Second Rounders in smart little deals.


The unkown

1) We still have around 20M of cap space. I bet we will make more moves.

2) It's a poor and risky strategy to just tank and gives away a season torturing the fans just to get a teenager to be our new messiah. Besides, having an awful team hurt our chances to land stars in Free Agency.

3)I hope to see a fun, fluid, and competitive team even if it is a Botton 5 team. I don't see that coming without further moves.

[ChuckyFE]

"We didn't give out any bad contracts" is a good way of saying that no one wanted to sign with them.

What difference-making star player was available this free agency? The closest to that (excluding AD - who we all know will re-sign with LA) is Gordon Hayward, and you want to give him 120 mil over 4yrs like Charlotte gave him?

[iLLmatic860]

well the elephant in the room is dolan of course. and deandre killed ANY chance nyk had in the FA world when he steered kyrie and kd away from the knicks.

but i live in nyc, born but not raised and have been here for 42years. on the one hand i feel safe because we understand the importance of the covid restrictions, queens sex clubs aside LOL, nonetheless it is stifling here and residents in my area are leaving in droves. not to say this would hinder any well paid millionaire athlete but in today's world there are too many other options

Lol Kyrie steered Kd to Nets. DJ just followed those 2

forget the timeline. deandre had just spent a year at nyk and he didn't like it at all. he didn't like how he was being used and he told kd don't go to nyk. it just reinforced kyrie growing up as a net fan and kd not being enamoured w/ the knicks as "king of ny"

Word DJ is pretty selfish. Even gave Nets problem about not starting when Jarrett Allen was clearly the better player

[Swish1906]

Mixed bag.

They didnt do anything stupid in the FA, thats good. They should play the young guys and tank.

Drafting Toppin when you are still in the early stages of a true rebuild was stupid. Just go with Hayes...

Overall something like a C and thats not really good because it was so damn easy to get an A in their situation

[omerome]

Mixed bag.

They didnt do anything stupid in the FA, thats good. They should play the young guys and tank.

Drafting Toppin when you are still in the early stages of a true rebuild was stupid. Just go with Hayes...

Overall something like a C and thats not really good because it was so damn easy to get an A in their situation

Hayes? Do you mean the Killian Hayes that was drafted at #7 when the Knicks had the 8th pick?

[iLLmatic860]

Mixed bag.

They didnt do anything stupid in the FA, thats good. They should play the young guys and tank.

Drafting Toppin when you are still in the early stages of a true rebuild was stupid. Just go with Hayes...

Overall something like a C and thats not really good because it was so damn easy to get an A in their situation

Um what? Lol

[Swish1906]

Mixed bag.

They didnt do anything stupid in the FA, thats good. They should play the young guys and tank.

Drafting Toppin when you are still in the early stages of a true rebuild was stupid. Just go with Hayes...

Overall something like a C and thats not really good because it was so damn easy to get an A in their situation

Hayes? Do you mean the Killian Hayes that was drafted at #7 when the Knicks had the 8th pick?

Haliburton, sorry

Was just done checking the Pistons roster when typing that

[omerome]

Mixed bag.

They didnt do anything stupid in the FA, thats good. They should play the young guys and tank.

Drafting Toppin when you are still in the early stages of a true rebuild was stupid. Just go with Hayes...

Overall something like a C and thats not really good because it was so damn easy to get an A in their situation

Hayes? Do you mean the Killian Hayes that was drafted at #7 when the Knicks had the 8th pick?

Haliburton, sorry

Was just done checking the Pistons roster when typing that

C'mon son.

But seriously, you don't draft based on need with a top 10 pick, you get talent. Toppin has the talent to justify him getting drafted there. Could Haliburton be better? Sure. But the choice is not as obvious as you're making it to be.

[Swish1906]

Hayes? Do you mean the Killian Hayes that was drafted at #7 when the Knicks had the 8th pick?

Haliburton, sorry

Was just done checking the Pistons roster when typing that

C'mon son.

But seriously, you don't draft based on need with a top 10 pick, you get talent. Toppin has the talent to justify him getting drafted there. Could Haliburton be better? Sure. But the choice is not as obvious as you're making it to be.

I dont see drafting Haliburton as need, i saw him at #8 as highest ceiling guy together with Deni, specially considering draft age. Sure Toppin could be better than them but like i said i dont see him as a guy you draft when you pretty much still should tank another two years (no star is signing in 2021 anyway in NY). Toppin was a pick for a team at the end of the rebuild who wants to go playoff hunting

Just watch what the Thunder did with their late picks. Drafted the bloody young high ceiling guys with Poku and Maledon

[r0drig0lac]

respecting all opinions, I will disagree with the majority, I do not see value in an intentional tank and lose on purpose.

Sean Marks received the Nets completely without resources, and with astute management of the cast and ALWAYS playing to win as many games as possible, in less than four seasons, taking advantage of the location, made a superstar and a star to buy his project and will enter in the season as one of the teams with a real shot at the title.
The Knicks has always had and will always have the location in favor, they just need serious management. Lose purposefully for several years (in addition to decreasing the value of your players), creates a defeatist culture that most often outweighs the team's talent, making this tank completely useless, especially today, which is a league where players have 100% control, look at the situation Kristaps, these guys currently control the league so much that they will have less and less patience to play in losing teams and will leave your initial team earlier and earlier.


If I'm running the NYFO and I believe Barret (and Robinson) is a player to build around, I try to put a decent support around him, the goal of NBA teams and winning games and It is possible to win championships, but some people think that the goal of the teams is to win "with players drafted by the franchise", but that was never the goal of the league, just look at the rockets (who received their franchise player and one the best players in the league from elsewhere).

[Kampuchea]

Leon Rose flipped the script. Last year we went for 10 average to below-average PFs and now we have too many average to below-average Guards.

I definitely prefer the extra Guards and also that we aren't overpaying any of our signings.

We need a backup Center. The team is still going to lose but in a way that is less disgusting compared to last year, baby steps.


1: Payton | Smith Jr.
2: Rivers |Burks | Ntilikina
3: Barrett |Bullock | Knox
4: Randle | Toppin | Spellman
5: Robinson | Noel


Deep Bench - | Quickley| Brazdeikis| Pinson | Evans

[omerome]

Haliburton, sorry

Was just done checking the Pistons roster when typing that

C'mon son.

But seriously, you don't draft based on need with a top 10 pick, you get talent. Toppin has the talent to justify him getting drafted there. Could Haliburton be better? Sure. But the choice is not as obvious as you're making it to be.

I dont see drafting Haliburton as need, i saw him at #8 as highest ceiling guy together with Deni, specially considering draft age. Sure Toppin could be better than them but like i said i dont see him as a guy you draft when you pretty much still should tank another two years (no star is signing in 2021 anyway in NY). Toppin was a pick for a team at the end of the rebuild who wants to go playoff hunting

Just watch what the Thunder did with their late picks. Drafted the bloody young high ceiling guys with Poku and Maledon

Well, Haliburton was one of the players I wanted the Knicks to draft if they couldn't get Hayes, so I don't really disagree with you there. But talent-wise, Toppin is in the same tier. As for the age argument, that's fair, but talent is still talent. And if the Knicks FO (which is different from years past) felt that he was worth the pick over Haliburton's abilities, only time will tell who is right.

I do disagree with you that the Knicks simply should have drafted a project since they aren't winning anyway. Many times those projects never reach their potential vs. a more "ready" player. And while Toppin is older, it's not like he's in his mid to late 20s or something, he still is young enough to get better - while showing he is good enough to play now.

[Trey24]

It is a win not because of anything they did or didn't do, but because there is finally and air of competence surrounding the Knicks FO.

Also they drafted BPA at 8 by most accounts and didn't screw that up (I know jury is still out).

It feels to me like they have turned a corner in terms of competency. We are barely (maybe not even) a year removed from that horrible press conference post-game after they SUCKED to start last year, and they had the audacity to blame the players and say how they expected THAT roster to compete for a playoff spot.

Today? I think they have realistic expectations to not be very good and embrace the tank (they were not rewarded for that last year with the new draft odds. But the Ed Davis deal alone felt SO much like a real NBA front office that I had to double check to make sure it was the old New York Knickerbockers!

This is the type of competency that could put them on the map to get a big fish next offseason.

[brutalitops]

Win

In a competitive conference they should get smashed and get a top 5 pick/chance at Cade/Boston Jr, They have some talented young players in
RJ (yes he sucked in his first year, but we're talking of a guy who was in the absolute worst fit for his play-style and they delegated him to be a spot up shooter, maybe his biggest weakness)

Obi who's a creative PF, have some ok/ish pieces still

YEs the spacing is still ****, but they just spend the last 2 years clearing cap, They ain't going to overpay for mediocre shooters to make a run to a potential playoff spot and burn their chances to get one more asset.

Getting a top 10 player and not overpaying for a horrific roster is a win, They still are not good, but they have freedom to do things and maybe take on an ugly contract for the pick, I see them picking up Russ for the cheap with rockets first for a future knicks first, to get the best out of having that 2 years to take a hit and hopefully before Obi/Barrett want massive extensions

[Clyde Ward]

the Knicks unfortunately, are not a team that is capable of developing a long-term prospect.

their rookies need to be able to contribute right away because

1. they don't get the full support of the franchise over 1 year vet contract hunters.

2. knicks can't develop them in limited minutes.

look at Frank N. - was a high-upside project. does anybody else think he would have such an underwhelming first 3 years if he were playing with a more structured franchise?

hopefully Toppin needs less "development" and just more NBA structure / coaching under Thibs to reach his potential.