MVP Frontrunners?

Hoop Heavy · Post #61 » by **Hoop Heavy** » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:08 pm

There's lots of conjecture based on a team doing really well and so adding substance to a leader's candidacy. I agree that is a reasonable approach given its the beginning of the season and usually MVP's don't come from teams who miss the playoffs. So ... not that anyone is ready to vote for it ... but if the Raptors come out as some reinvented small ball juggernaut and again claim 1st or 2nd in the east ... then Kyle should get his due.

Raps weren't good enough with Kawhi, but they won everything. Then the Raps weren't good enough with Kawhi and Green leaving and many people didn't seem them making the playoffs last year. Still, they had just reeled off a 15 game win streak and were looking like the best team in the league down the stretch when the season got interrupted.

Raps didn't lose game 7 to Boston until Kyle was politically disqualified in the last minute, and I fully suspect if he was still in the game he would have hit the winner. Kyle was only disqualified after Wanamaker jumped into him kneeing him in the balls, while the announcers all agreed that it was an offensive and maybe even a flagrant foul - which may have put the game out of reach in crunch time with the Raps leading - the refs called it on Kyle (something about revenue losses with US television networks maybe). He got to the spot, jumped straight up with his hands above his head, reached the apex of his leap and then got kneed in the balls - clearly his foul.

So again this off season losing Gasol and Ibaka, the narrative is the same. The Raps aren't good enough. Still, it's about winning, not scoring. The thing about team sports is that there is always a chance that your whole team will suddenly play as hard as your most committed player, and if you can inspire others to rabid intensity without sacrificing IQ and efficiency (see Chris Paul on this too), then while you are on the floor your team always has a chance to win.

Most Valuable Player - yes Kyle is an unconventional hero. He's usually the shortest guy on the floor. He doesn't score as much as you think he could. Still, if he keeps making new guys better, how much is that worth in points per game?

I haven't done the research, but has anyone WON more games in the last seven years than Kyle. It is about winning - right! Kyle deserves inclusion in the "best" (not highest scoring) five players in the league - based on results.

old skool · Post #62 » by **old skool** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 3:30 am

Obviously Lowry could never win MVP because all of the powers to be are against him and a potential small ball juggernaut.

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primopastalove2 · Post #63 » by **primopastalove2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 4:50 am

Barring injury It's going to be between Giannis and LeBron, since the ABA merger the MVP has gone to the best player on the best or second-best RS team about 85% of the time.

I don't see anyone coming close to the record of the Lakers or Bucks, so as long as LeBron and Giannis put up their usual numbers of 25/8/10 or 30/13/5 respectively the player with the better record will win it.

Alonzo_Morning · Post #64 » by **Alonzo_Morning** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 9:24 am

Jadoogar wrote:I don't think Giannis wins another until he shows he can perform in the playoffs. I know it's a regular season award but voters aren't going to consider him because of his past 2 playoff failures

It's a sign that MVP should include playoffs too. Who really gives a **** if you can't lead your team deep into the playoffs?

Otherwise may as well call it "Who did the most with the least?" award or something

Jadoogar · Post #65 » by **Jadoogar** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 3:55 pm

Alonzo_Morning wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:I don't think Giannis wins another until he shows he can perform in the playoffs. I know it's a regular season award but voters aren't going to consider him because of his past 2 playoff failures

It's a sign that MVP should include playoffs too. Who really gives a **** if you can't lead your team deep into the playoffs?

Otherwise may as well call it "Who did the most with the least?" award or something

hmm i disagree. In most cases, it would be the same as the finals MVP. Taking away regular season awards would make the regular season even more meaningless.
And last year it's not like Giannis got kicked out in the first round, they were 2 wins away from the finals. If they didn't have a 2-0 lead but still lost in 6, their season would have been regarded far differently

dhsilv2 · Post #66 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 3:58 pm

Alonzo_Morning wrote:
NTB wrote:LeBron or Giannis again

No way Giannis gets it again after 2 failed playoff series in a row. Unless the Bucks win 70 games.

Luka gets it, then Zion the year after

I'm not sure I see why bucks winning 70 isn't a high possibility lol. Giannis not winning it if he keeps improving would be a darn shame. Playoffs aren't part of the MVP story.

dhsilv2 · Post #67 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 4:03 pm

Alonzo_Morning wrote:
NTB wrote:
Alonzo_Morning wrote:
No way Giannis gets it again after 2 failed playoff series in a row. Unless the Bucks win 70 games.

Luka gets it, then Zion the year after

How is it playoff related?

MVP is a narrative based award.

Right now, the narrative is that Giannis isn't good enough to lead a team to the title.

My lord, if that's a narrative out there, I'm glad I'm not watching ESPN!

Jadoogar · Post #68 » by **Jadoogar** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 4:55 pm

Kings4win wrote:In a vacuum, Giannis is easy the best player in the league so he deserves it

yea easily. it's why he was nearly swept by Miami.

dhsilv2 · Post #69 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 5:58 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
Kings4win wrote:In a vacuum, Giannis is easy the best player in the league so he deserves it

yea easily. it's why he was nearly swept by Miami.

Of course he wasn't and he got injured in the series but lets ignore that. not to mention it was the freaking bubble summer league playoffs, not real playoffs.

Raps in 4 · Post #70 » by **Raps in 4** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:04 pm

I think Luka runs away with it.

Ring Damage · Post #71 » by **Ring Damage** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:46 pm

LeBron is slightly more valuable than Davis in the playoffs (although if Davis didn't play they wouldn't be a title contender), but its hard to justify LeBron winning the regular season MVP when Davis leads the team in scoring and defensive impact.

Jadoogar · Post #72 » by **Jadoogar** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:58 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
Kings4win wrote:In a vacuum, Giannis is easy the best player in the league so he deserves it

yea easily. it's why he was nearly swept by Miami.

Of course he wasn't and he got injured in the series but lets ignore that. not to mention it was the freaking bubble summer league playoffs, not real playoffs.

LOL love the excuses. Keep it going

jokeboy86 · Post #73 » by **jokeboy86** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 7:35 pm

The Giannis situation could get weird and unprecedented. If the Bucks finish with the top record in the league with Giannis putting up similar to better numbers it would just seem weird to not give him the MVP cause it's a regular-season award. I get it has been a narrative-based award too but it's very rare that the best player on the league's top seed putting up stats like Giannis would not get the award. I can think of Jordan(voter fatigue) & Durant(voter backlash) recently but that's it. This is why Giannis being in his prime and already being a 2 time MVP and having not played in or won a Finals game has thrown a wrench into things.

dhsilv2 · Post #74 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 7:46 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote: yea easily. it's why he was nearly swept by Miami.

Of course he wasn't and he got injured in the series but lets ignore that. not to mention it was the freaking bubble summer league playoffs, not real playoffs.

LOL love the excuses. Keep it going

Excuse...nobody here has one of those buddy. Stating what happens is just that.

mademan · Post #75 » by **mademan** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 7:47 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Of course he wasn't and he got injured in the series but lets ignore that. not to mention it was the freaking bubble summer league playoffs, not real playoffs.

LOL love the excuses. Keep it going

Excuse...nobody here has one of those buddy. Stating what happens is just that.

Giannis playing bad because of the bubble sounds like an excuse

Jadoogar · Post #76 » by **Jadoogar** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:11 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Of course he wasn't and he got injured in the series but lets ignore that. not to mention it was the freaking bubble summer league playoffs, not real playoffs.

LOL love the excuses. Keep it going

Excuse...nobody here has one of those buddy. Stating what happens is just that.

lol how is the bubble not an excuse? literally everyone played in the bubble.
What was the issue for 2019? Had to go through customs?

dhsilv2 · Post #77 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:34 pm

mademan wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
LOL love the excuses. Keep it going

Excuse...nobody here has one of those buddy. Stating what happens is just that.

Giannis playing bad because of the bubble sounds like an excuse

Who said that? Judging play in the bubble is useless in judging play outside. Judging small samples is also useless. We saw the bucks lose a series under weird conditions. We also saw Giannis having his best game of that series, one in which he by no means was bad, and then he got hurt.

There was a time that people said a scoring champ like MJ couldn't win a title. He didn't prove them wrong. They were wrong to start with and were speculating. You can say Giannis hasn't won a title, but all have seen more than enough to know he can lead a team to one. If he does or doesn't eventually do so, no less makes the claim unfounded and factually wrong.

dhsilv2 · Post #78 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:36 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
LOL love the excuses. Keep it going

Excuse...nobody here has one of those buddy. Stating what happens is just that.

lol how is the bubble not an excuse? literally everyone played in the bubble.
What was the issue for 2019? Had to go through customs?

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. I'm just pointing out there were no real playoffs last year with that. We saw them lose to the raptors and we can break down the games if you want. The raptors were the better team and GIannis the best player in that series.

Jadoogar · Post #79 » by **Jadoogar** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:41 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
mademan wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Excuse...nobody here has one of those buddy. Stating what happens is just that.

Giannis playing bad because of the bubble sounds like an excuse

Who said that? Judging play in the bubble is useless in judging play outside. g.

...are the rules of basketball different in the bubble? Arguably it should have impacted the Lakers as they lost a rotation player in the bubble, they seemed to handle it fine.

No one is saying Giannis can't ever win. But your assertion that Giannis is by far the best player in the league is objectively wrong given the results we have seen so far.

dhsilv2 · Post #80 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:44 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Giannis playing bad because of the bubble sounds like an excuse

Who said that? Judging play in the bubble is useless in judging play outside. g.

...are the rules of basketball different in the bubble? Arguably it should have impacted the Lakers as they lost a rotation player in the bubble, they seemed to handle it fine.

No one is saying Giannis can't ever win. But your assertion that Giannis is by far the best player in the league is objectively wrong given the results we have seen so far.

Team results do not represent that of who the best player is. And who cares what the lakers did? It was still the damn bubble. It was a novelty setup by the league to save money. I'm not going to use it in a serious basketball discussion.

Giannis's team ran the league over before play stopped and the season ended, lead by a player putting up other godly numbers with impact supporting it. His last loss in the playoffs was to a team built to defend at all 5 positions who setup an entire defense around stopping him and forcing his teammates to make plays. Giannis of course could improve, but he played more than well enough for his team to win. He just had the worse team.

MVP Frontrunners-vote for 2