Giannis or Jokic | Who would you build a team around?

[DCasey91]

Watch the series with the Blazers. They were all as bad as each other.

I learnt to trust my eyes more then stats do. I mean halfway through the year Harris and Milton were ranked ffs as positive even Harris was or or unquote ranked elite in some random defensive metric.

Fwiw they are below to bad defenders.

Aren’t some metric inherently flawed or just have straight bias?

Anyway from a team perspective you cannot get past a below average rim protecting big which Jokic is.

Hence the Parish/Chandler analogy. I actually hope Turner goes to the Nuggets. Then that team is on one and a real contender.

The one in which we were missing Murray (the one I was talking about defensively), Will Barton good wing defender and PJ Dozier our best perimeter defender? The one in which Marcus Howard our 5'10' 2-way shooting guard played 15 mins per game.

I got a car to sell you If you think the Nuggets are a good defensive unit that can hold up in the playoffs.

[WestGOAT]

Talk about an unfair question asked moments after a Finals game.

Bucks lose Middleton to an ACL tear and no way is this questioned being asked. Context is critically important.

I don’t think it would have mattered. Giannis was on a mission this year and wasn’t going to let his team lose no matter what happened.

Nonsense, no way Bucks are scoring at an acceptable rate in a half-court setting without Middleton, Giannis won't magically start hitting jump-shots cause he "is on a mission".

[Packbuckman]

Giannis he is the best two way player and it’s not close!

[trickshot]

Hard to choose. Hard not to go with Giannis with what we just saw. However think Jokic beating the Blazers is underrated and up there with the best feats in these playoffs. Coming from 3-1 behind twice last season was also amazing. Jokic is an amazing playoff performer. Jokic, Luka and Giannis are about to give us an amazing decade.

[RoyceDa59]

Lol.

[BelgradeNugget]

Watch the series with the Blazers. They were all as bad as each other.

I learnt to trust my eyes more then stats do. I mean halfway through the year Harris and Milton were ranked ffs as positive even Harris was or or unquote ranked elite in some random defensive metric.

Fwiw they are below to bad defenders.

Aren’t some metric inherently flawed or just have straight bias?

Anyway from a team perspective you cannot get past a below average rim protecting big which Jokic is.

Hence the Parish/Chandler analogy. I actually hope Turner goes to the Nuggets. Then that team is on one and a real contender.

The one in which we were missing Murray (the one I was talking about defensively), Will Barton good wing defender and PJ Dozier our best perimeter defender? The one in which Marcus Howard our 5'10' 2-way shooting guard played 15 mins per game.

I got a car to sell you If you think the Nuggets are a good defensive unit that can hold up in the playoffs.

Watch games. Not the ones in which Nuggets are missing 3/4 of their guard rotation.

[BelgradeNugget]

Remember watching the Nuggets and Blazers was like watching traffic cones defend each other and Jokic was in that boat. No excuses there. Same for Lillard which I love but I know he’s one of the worst defenders in this comp.

Below average defensive bigs we all know don’t have high team ceilings. Jokic is different because he’s Bird + Dirk basically. So subvert that into those high octane offensive systems.

MPJ is overkill. Murray + Jokic then defenders that can shoot now you’re cooking with supa hot fire. Until then big no.

Camp has great defensive skills but he’s small and a guard so in actuality is a negative defender watching him closely. Durant on the otherhand you could argue isn’t as defensively skilled.

But the Grand Canyon sized gap in size is enormous and wings are the second most valuable after Bigs.
Wings that can act as a pseudo free safety bigs (Giannis, AD, LBJ, Durant, Green, Ben) are the best breeds to me. They can’t be played off the court and always have a matchup and scale to its highest degree of value vs opponents direct threats.

For Playoffs that’s undeniably great.

Find a Parish or Chandler Nuggets.

Lillard didn't do to Nuggets nothing that Trae didn't do to 76ers all-nba defense. And 76ers in fact have one of the best defense in the league with all-nba defenders on critical positions PG, C and wing. The thing is some players are this good now using the whole half court to attack. Dame is with Curry the best in that. Unimitated range, it is pick your poison with him. 3 pt shot, floater or layup. Trae killed 76ers with floaters.

Trae shot sub 40%. Doc straight up made blunders each game of the series. Team weaknesses and their play style worked out. I mean Huerter/Gallo, Collins etc all played their roles.

Once again watch the games

Trae took 22.6 shots per game and made 8.9 against 76ers. That is 13.7 missed shots per game.
Deme took 22.3 snd made 10.3 against Nuggets. That is 12 missed shots per game.
It looks like your all-world defense made unbelievable difference in 1.7 less made shot. Great.

Btw this is the way how Dame scored against the Nuggets. We were terribly lacking rim protection.
Watch games

Watch on YouTube

[DCasey91]

Umm a bigs job is to rim protect.

Last time I checked Jokic is a big.

Dude your further cementing my point lol.

Jokic will repeatedly get cooked on the outer and at the rim. I rate Jokic but the team’s will be ceiling comprised with that big. Then once again the dynamic changes

Telling you its Turner get him and watch what happens. Nuggets will be legit as heck. Two man game would be sick as well.

I mean he isn’t the Steve Nash of Centers but he Isn’t Hakeem either not even close (Jokic).

[MrSparkle]

This isn’t entirely reasonable.

Giannis truly plays 5 positions. At the end of the day Jokic is a C, and offensively it’s great he is PG, but defensively he’s a problem, and likely will forever be a liability on one end. So unless NBA rules revert to some kind of pre-90s big man ball, I will choose the generational forward or wing over any C or PG, every time. I love Embiid, Jokic and Curry, but they need atleast 1 all-star scoring compliment to sniff a ring. Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis, Luka, etc. are as close as you’ll get to a successful 1-man show.

But ya know - you can build a championship around either. Murray’s ACL was a huge blow (along with letting Grant walk last year). Giannis/Bucks don’t win a chip without injury fortune.

[BelgradeNugget]

Umm a bigs job is to rim protect.

Last time I checked Jokic is a big.

Dude your further cementing my point lol.

Jokic will repeatedly get cooked on the outer and at the rim. I rate Jokic but the team’s will be ceiling comprised with that big. Then once again the dynamic changes

Telling you its Turner get him and watch what happens. Nuggets will be legit as heck. Two man game would be sick as well.

I mean he isn’t the Steve Nash of Centers but he Isn’t Hakeem either not even close (Jokic).

So you obviously didn't watch again. When I said 'we were lacking rim protection' I said it with irony because if you have bother to watch you would see Dame hitting long 3 after long 3 over starched arms of defender.
BTW when people say rim protection they usually mean opposing teams % under the rim.
Turner 48.7
Jokic 63.5
Embiid 53.9
But you can protect the rim by not allowing opponent to take shots under the rim by positioning and forcing tougher shots. So if you look at opponents DFGM under the rim
Turner 5.0
Jokic 4.8
Embiid 4.6
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-lt6/?sort=FGM_LT_06&dir=1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
Nuggets were among the best defensive teams in the league, when healthy in 2019-20, with Millsap who is not shot blocker and Jokic playing together.
One of the best shot-blockers in the league is Hassan Whiteside, who is also bad defender. So if you are missing context you can make every argument.

[DCasey91]

Face it Belgrade it’s Turner here it’s super obvious it’s basketball not stat hunting or rocket science.

I mean Murray and Jokic your defense is already liable. That’s two non two way players.

[Soulyss]

While you can obviously build around either, I would say that building a championship roster around Joker would be easier because of his more well rounded game and passing. That isn't shade on Giannis who is great but less flexible.

[ItsDanger]

Jokic, you'll see next season why.

[Harry Garris]

Jokic is really unpopular on this site and Giannis just won his first title so it isn't an objective poll

Rarely do I disagree with your post but first part of your post ain't true. Joker has been one of the most popular players on this site over the last couple of years. His all around offense, a skillset rarely seen on big men brought life to the post pandemic, injury plagued NBA. I am a huge fan of his game.

As to the poll, I couldn't care less on any Giannis related hot take threads tonight. Let the people have fun, get drunk, get high, whatever they want, tomorrow is a new day.

If tomorrow is too son, next week, next month. Remember Butler = Jesus last year this time? People will come back to reality sooner or later.

I should amend my comment to say that Jokic has a few extremely vocal critics on this site.

[Soulyss]

Jokic is really unpopular on this site and Giannis just won his first title so it isn't an objective poll

Rarely do I disagree with your post but first part of your post ain't true. Joker has been one of the most popular players on this site over the last couple of years. His all around offense, a skillset rarely seen on big men brought life to the post pandemic, injury plagued NBA. I am a huge fan of his game.

As to the poll, I couldn't care less on any Giannis related hot take threads tonight. Let the people have fun, get drunk, get high, whatever they want, tomorrow is a new day.

If tomorrow is too son, next week, next month. Remember Butler = Jesus last year this time? People will come back to reality sooner or later.

I should amend my comment to say that Jokic has a few extremely vocal critics on this site.

There may be a few Joker haters, but overall it's absolutely a Joker lovefest on this board.

[ken6199]

In terms of being likeable, Joker and Giannis are probably the top 2 in the league right now.

One has a beautiful offensive game who is a modern day revolutionary big man somehow defining the game the same way Curry was doing a few years back. Fun and goofy personality which makes people like him more. He does have moments where he lost himself but you can attribute that to his youth and desire to win.

The other one is down to earth hard working guy with physical dominance. His game isn't for everyone in terms of eye pleasing (certainly not for me but I can't speak for all), but you have to appreciate how hard he works on his craft and the loyalty he is showing to the city of Milwaukee who drafted him.

KD, Westbrook, Harden, Lebron, Doncic, Curry, Trae, Kawhi, PG, there are various things people can hate on them on different degrees but Joker and Giannis are so not-hateable to a degree where if you say anything against them, you are labeled as a hater. I've experienced many posts where posters are afraid of criticizing these two players just to not become a target. On the other hand, folks are so eager to jump onto the Harden/Melo/etc mocking train just to show others that you got some funny jokes going on, and you are someone who "understand the game". I understand that, it's human nature.

In that sense, bringing up Joker vs Giannis is certainly a fun thread to read.

[nomansland]

Look I'm a Nuggets fan and obviously a big Jokic fan, but I'd rather build around Giannis. Although I think that if Jokic's surrounding cast had been healthy this year, they'd have given the Bucks a substantial challenge.

Congrats to the Bucks though. Congrats to Giannis. Good team and they deserve any accolades thrown at them.

[BelgradeNugget]

Face it Belgrade it’s Turner here it’s super obvious it’s basketball not stat hunting or rocket science.

I mean Murray and Jokic your defense is already liable. That’s two non two way players.

Great conclusion made from waching 10-15 Nuggets games in last 3 years, and waching some smarth analysis like SAS and Rachel Nichols. Please man talk about 76ers, I hope you know something about them because you don't know a **** about Nuggets.

[clyde21]

i mean...you creating this thread literally at the apex of Giannis stock.

[Hroz]

Giannis

In a switch everything league. It's too easy for Some players to get Jokic one on one & do work.