What teams are beating a dead horse?

[DaGawd]

The Knicks just committed to a team for the next 3 years that will likely remain a 1st round exit.

Wrong

Which part?

All of it. The roster is for the most part signed to team friendly deals who can easily be moved if desired. And who cares if they’re first round exits for a little bit? The nets were the same thing before them boys decided to team up.

[tidho]

I take this topic to mean which teams are basically stuck and need a new direction. I will say the Blazers and Cavs. Portland is like the Joe Johnson Hawks: good enough to make the playoffs, hard cap at second round appearance. Rinse, repeat. Cleveland is seemingly addicted to the lottery with no real plan of building a team. Why is Kevin Love still on that team?

POR is obvious, but CLE? CLE is just a standard rebuilding team just ready to begin the climb back up. Its good to be a lottery tam...until you aren't a lottery team. Unfortunately the lottery hasn't brought them a star to build around yet, but they've made good selections, and have a clear path forward.

[tidho]

dp

[kuclas]

Right now Boston is going all in on creating a winning team next year (avoiding making any small trades that won't really help them this year, but puting themselves in great position next year). If they can get Beal next year, they will have a really good team that is right up there with the rest of the top teams in the league. I would hardly calling that beating a dead horse (now if the Beal thing falls through, and / or they don't get another top star to go with the Jays, then yeah, go ahead and call it the dead horse thing)

Also, it's kind of funny hearing a Laker fan say this. The Lakers aren't quite beating a dead horse, instead they are beating a 75 year old Nag that can hardly stand on it's own four feet anymore, and is going to require lots and lots of resting just to make it through the season.

How does adding another wing that needs the ball make them a title contender?

For one it adds another true elite number 1 scoring option next to Jayson Tatum. It slides Jaylen brown to an elite number 3 where he should be and if he is he can go to having less of a load on offense and focus some more on defense where he has potential to be elite.
Beal has also shown a great ability to continuously move without the ball - so he is capable of coming off screens, going back door and cuts something that the Celtics greatly need.

Lastly it also makes it much easier to move brown for another superstar with picks if the skills are too redundant. beal brown Tatum is a contender.

What assets does Boston have to get Beal outside of brown.

I guess they can wait to next season to clear cap space to get Beal if he opts out.

[jpengland]

Dallas has been surrounding a Euro superstar with garbage for about 25 years now.

I’d really like for that to change one day

Yeah I mean the second most winningest franchise of the century, finals trips and a championship. Now with the best young player in the world is flogging a dead horse....


Christ.

[dirkforpres]

Dallas has been surrounding a Euro superstar with garbage for about 25 years now.

I’d really like for that to change one day

Yeah I mean the second most winningest franchise of the century, finals trips and a championship. Now with the best young player in the world is flogging a dead horse....


Christ.

Cool. Now look up post 2011 Mavs stats

[Sothron]

I take this topic to mean which teams are basically stuck and need a new direction. I will say the Blazers and Cavs. Portland is like the Joe Johnson Hawks: good enough to make the playoffs, hard cap at second round appearance. Rinse, repeat. Cleveland is seemingly addicted to the lottery with no real plan of building a team. Why is Kevin Love still on that team?

POR is obvious, but CLE? CLE is just a standard rebuilding team just ready to begin the climb back up. Its good to be a lottery tam...until you aren't a lottery team. Unfortunately the lottery hasn't brought them a star to build around yet, but they've made good selections, and have a clear path forward.

They have? They have Saxton get another PG. They have a ton of centers. They still have Kevin Love for...reasons? It makes absolutely no sense why he is still on that team. They had the Lebron return years and that's it. They were tanking before then and returned to tanking after it. I understand they are rebuilding. But that's all they do. They aren't even drafting correctly or using their assets correctly.

[MagicBagley18]

How does adding another wing that needs the ball make them a title contender?

For one it adds another true elite number 1 scoring option next to Jayson Tatum. It slides Jaylen brown to an elite number 3 where he should be and if he is he can go to having less of a load on offense and focus some more on defense where he has potential to be elite.
Beal has also shown a great ability to continuously move without the ball - so he is capable of coming off screens, going back door and cuts something that the Celtics greatly need.

Lastly it also makes it much easier to move brown for another superstar with picks if the skills are too redundant. beal brown Tatum is a contender.

What assets does Boston have to get Beal outside of brown.

I guess they can wait to next season to clear cap space to get Beal if he opts out.

I’d personally have no problem trading brown for beal if it had to be done but I’m also of the belief now that beal won’t demand out and will at least start the year in Washington. I’d much rather either clear space or do a sign and trade as Tatum and beal isn’t enough and I’d much more prefer adding beal to the jays.

Beal is also 100% opting out regardless if he leaves or not. He’ll be a 10 year vet and can get 35% of the cap when he signs next summer. Beal has himself also mentioned in his end of season presser how he’s in a “contract year”

[JohnnyNightrain]

I don't know how the Celts are beating a dead horse when the roster has been wildly different every season in recent memory. After Tatum Brown and Smart it's a completely different supporting cast every year.

If y'all just want to say we suck, ok whatever. But I'm not getting the dead horse narrative.

To me, that's why they're beating a dead horse. Every year, for the past few years, it's "one player away, "war chest of picks," building for the future," "speedy rebuild," etc. with little to show for it. They're just throwing in a supporting cast and hoping something sticks.

[bisme37]

I don't know how the Celts are beating a dead horse when the roster has been wildly different every season in recent memory. After Tatum Brown and Smart it's a completely different supporting cast every year.

If y'all just want to say we suck, ok whatever. But I'm not getting the dead horse narrative.

To me, that's why they're beating a dead horse. Every year, for the past few years, it's "one player away, "war chest of picks," building for the future," "speedy rebuild," etc. with little to show for it. They're just throwing in a supporting cast and hoping something sticks.

But they've been to 3 ECF's in the last 5 years with different teams. That's good not bad.

And if they are in fact beating a dead horse, what would you have them do about it? Trade 23 year old Tatum or 24 year old Brown just to blow things up?

It's a young core that still has plenty of time to improve internally and find the right pieces around them. And in the meantime they've already had more success than than could have been expected. And the FO is currently carving out a max slot for next offseason to hopefully add more elite talent.

[VancouverRaps]

Wrong

Which part?

All of it. The roster is for the most part signed to team friendly deals who can easily be moved if desired. And who cares if they’re first round exits for a little bit? The nets were the same thing before them boys decided to team up.

Yeah, the Knicks are one of the few teams where even if they max out as a 1st/2nd round team, that's enough for them to become a major player in the star player market as long as they keep enough flexibility since Decent Team/Management + NYC = super attractive destination for disgruntled stars and star free agents.

[ILOVEIT]

Well you could say any team that sucks every year....lol

But to me Boston is the predictable. They are good....but just can't get over the hump with the top talent they have. Tatum is awesome....but IMO he's a second tier guy.

[stitches]

Why are people saying the Jazz? Hell, the might win a championship very soon, within a few years!
They are young and very good. Get better over time. Like the Bucks and Raptors in the East. Who each of them eventually won NBA titles recently.

Not sure I agree with others that the Jazz are beating a dead horse, but they are not young. And they became even older this off-season. Here's the rotation of the Jazz:

Mike Conley - 33
Donovan Mitchell - 24
Royce O'Neale - 28
Bojan Bogdanovic - 32
Rudy Gobert - 29

Joe Ingles - 33
Hassan Whiteside - 32
Rudy Gay - 35
Jordan Clarkson - 29

We have only one player under 25(Mitchell and he turns 25 in a month), and everybody else is either in his 30s or getting close to turning 30.

[jkvonny]

Why are people saying the Jazz? Hell, the might win a championship very soon, within a few years!
They are young and very good. Get better over time. Like the Bucks and Raptors in the East. Who each of them eventually won NBA titles recently.

Not sure I agree with others that the Jazz are beating a dead horse, but they are not young. And they became even older this off-season. Here's the rotation of the Jazz:

Mike Conley - 33
Donovan Mitchell - 24
Royce O'Neale - 28
Bojan Bogdanovic - 32
Rudy Gobert - 29

Joe Ingles - 33
Hassan Whiteside - 32
Rudy Gay - 35
Jordan Clarkson - 29

We have only one player under 25(Mitchell and he turns 25 in a month), and everybody else is either in his 30s or getting close to turning 30.

Ah, true. Gotcha.
I guess I was referring mainly towards Gobert, Mitchell, etc. Under 30. lol

Point being, yall aren't a treadmill team like some of these other posters ate saying. In fact mainly upward trending. Team chemistry as will. Bucks went through the same thing for yrs until now winning it all this year.

[jkvonny]

Well you could say any team that sucks every year....lol

But to me Boston is the predictable. They are good....but just can't get over the hump with the top talent they have. Tatum is awesome....but IMO he's a second tier guy.

Exactly. Very predictable! Been hearing/seeing it in the national media for almost a decade, since Stevens got there.
If that aint a treadmill team then we don't know what is.

[SF_Warriors]

Kat, Dlo, edwards played about 40 games together. I dont necessarily believe in their core but they should at least get another year or two together before folks start saying they need to break it up.

[DarkXaero]

Wrong

Which part?

All of it. The roster is for the most part signed to team friendly deals who can easily be moved if desired. And who cares if they’re first round exits for a little bit? The nets were the same thing before them boys decided to team up.

The roster is signed to 2-3 year deals, with the two big contracts guaranteed for 3 years at last (Randle + Fournier). You also have RJ's rookie extension coming up next off season which will have to be factored in. So I don't see how I was wrong about "all of it", that just seems like a defensive answer.

The Nets were a first round exit with the 2018 team and decided not to commit to them (let D Lo and a good chunk of supporting cast walk). Caris Levert was the only one who was re-signed to a team friendly deal (and that happened after signing KD & Kyrie in FA). Knicks commited to the same team as last year with added pieces.

[Hoop Heavy]

portland and boston.

Right now Boston is going all in on creating a winning team next year (avoiding making any small trades that won't really help them this year, but puting themselves in great position next year). If they can get Beal next year, they will have a really good team that is right up there with the rest of the top teams in the league. I would hardly calling that beating a dead horse (now if the Beal thing falls through, and / or they don't get another top star to go with the Jays, then yeah, go ahead and call it the dead horse thing)

Also, it's kind of funny hearing a Laker fan say this. The Lakers aren't quite beating a dead horse, instead they are beating a 75 year old Nag that can hardly stand on it's own four feet anymore, and is going to require lots and lots of resting just to make it through the season.

Translation for non-delusional non-Bostonian people - Our team will suck this year - we need one of the top possibly-available players added without any subtraction to be considered relevant.

This horse is dead.

No, he's sleeping - pining for the fiords - brilliant plumage the Norwegian Blue ...

[Joshyjess]

portland and boston.

Right now Boston is going all in on creating a winning team next year (avoiding making any small trades that won't really help them this year, but puting themselves in great position next year). If they can get Beal next year, they will have a really good team that is right up there with the rest of the top teams in the league. I would hardly calling that beating a dead horse (now if the Beal thing falls through, and / or they don't get another top star to go with the Jays, then yeah, go ahead and call it the dead horse thing)

Also, it's kind of funny hearing a Laker fan say this. The Lakers aren't quite beating a dead horse, instead they are beating a 75 year old Nag that can hardly stand on it's own four feet anymore, and is going to require lots and lots of resting just to make it through the season.

Translation for non-delusional non-Bostonian people - Our team will suck this year - we need one of the top possibly-available players added without any subtraction to be considered relevant.

This horse is dead.

No, he's sleeping - pining for the fiords - brilliant plumage the Norwegian Blue ...

First of all, when you have Tatum and Brown on the same team, that team will never suck. Sure, they might not have a deep enough team this year to go all the way, but those two alone are more than capable of getting the C's into at least the second round. When you add a healthy Robert Williams (fingers crossed), and a motivated Marcus Smart, you are increasing those odds greatly.
No one in Boston realisticaly believes that the C's can win it all this year, which is why we are OK with letting this year play out as it is (and who knows maybe they will be the Cinderella team this year, probably not, but you never know), and setting themselves up for next year when a big name star is available, and the C's will have the room to hopeufully sign him. By then both the Jays will be even better, and they might have some good filler pieces as well.
If you need to use the horse in all of this, let's just say that the horse is probably in hibernation for a year, but that he should wake up refreshed and ready to go next year!

[ciueli]

Washington seemed pretty optimistic about keeping Beal, if he wanted out all he had to do was say so but all we've heard is he will take a max contract and stay. This is the trend for players now in the COVID era, they're very conservative, not taking less money when they can just sign a big contract and demand out in a year or two of losing.

And IMO, this is exactly what Bradley Beal should do because he's a bit overrated as a player. Poor defender and he's shot around 35% from 3 the past 3 seasons. Yeah, he scores a lot of points, but that's partially because he's one of the highest usage rate guys in the entire league (4th in the NBA last season). I actually think he's potentially a bad fit with other stars because he's not a great passer (4.4 assists to 3.1 turnovers). Specifically on the Celtics he's going to take the ball out of the hands of Tatum and Brown and won't really make them better players.