Masai Ujiri is Overrated

[Saints14]

I suppose if you give the lions share of credit to the coaching/development staff then you can say that Masai is overrated, but even then he deserves credit for selecting the type of player that's coachable enough to outperform their draft slot. I think he's one of the best if not the best exec in the league, but will admit I don't like the Barnes pick over Suggs. Actually that made me wonder if something like the "hot hand fallacy" exists in front offices too - that while Ujiri has been good he's also been lucky, and that caused him to overrate his own abilities and go against the consensus and make the wrong pick. We shall see

[Duffman100]

Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

Huh? Raps were up 3-2 in the series and it was 4 point game. Would win easily?

This thread is just an embarrassment.

Warriors were 1-3 in the 2019 finals in games Klay DID play in

The narrative is so ridiculous.

Klay had a good game for that 1 win. The other games he was a non factor. Toronto wasn't fearing him even if he was healthy.

He was on fire the game he left and it was very possibly we were going to lose that game. But to say it was obvious the Warriors were going to win is ridiculous.

[The_Hater]

They move Lowry for Dragic who refuses to play for them. They then decide to not draft the BPA and elite prospect guard, Jalen Suggs. Who should have been the face of the PG spot moving foward. This team seems like it has no real direction given the past 2 years worth of transactions. Kawhi left, Marc, Ibaka, Powell, Lowry. Who is next? Siakam?

They have a good scouting team so I give them the benefit of the doubt for now but if Suggs goes on blow up in Orlando, and Barnes becomes just another role player or he busts, its going to haunt this team for years.

A lot of Raptor fans are going to come in and defend the hell out of him and I completely understand. I'm just stating that from the outside looking in, it doesn't look good. And on a side note - I like Barnes. I also like Kuminga, Sengun and Moody too. But not over Suggs. That selection shouldn't have been complicated to make.

A: Dragic is not refusing to play for the Raps. Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion

B: The Raps were not targeting Dragic in the sign and trade, he was just the necessary contract to make the trade work. They wanted the prospect

When you’re factually wrong on your 1st two points, there’s no point in reading the rest of your argument.

[RaptorPride]

Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

Game 1 Raptors win by 9
Game 2 GSW win by 5
Game 3 Raptors win by 14 (no Klay)
Game 4 Raptors win by 13
Game 5 GSW win by 1
Game 6 Raptors win by 4 (Klay plays 32 Min then gets hurt) ( Leonard was playing like **** 43% from the field and 1-5 from 3)

The Raptor wins come with much bigger leads. With the what ifs its possible the Raptors could have won game 2 with it being a close game. And an even better chance of possibly ending it in game 5 with GSW winning by 1 point.

The only close win for Raptors was game 6 but games 2 or 5 could have easily went the Raptors way and ending the series in 4(sweep) or 5 games.

[CoachD]

Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

Game 1 Raptors win by 9
Game 2 GSW win by 5
Game 3 Raptors win by 14 (no Klay)
Game 4 Raptors win by 13
Game 5 GSW win by 1
Game 6 Raptors win by 4 (Klay plays 32 Min then gets hurt) ( Leonard was playing like **** 43% from the field and 1-5 from 3)

The Raptor wins come with much bigger leads. With the what ifs its possible the Raptors could have won game 2 with it being a close game. And an even better chance of possibly ending it in game 5 with GSW winning by 1 point.

The only close win for Raptors was game 6 but games 2 or 5 could have easily went the Raptors way and ending the series in 4(sweep) or 5 games.

And all that was with OG not playing a single minute.

If OG was guarding Klay I don't think Klay would have gone off in that 1 game

[CoachD]

Any time someone calls Masai the GM, I immediately disregard everything else they say because they are clueless

[Jadoogar]

Kyle Lowry was leaving Toronto anyways, this trade just helped him go to the team he wanted.

For the Draft pick, neither player has played yet. Assuming someone who is well accomplished is “overrated” because you disagree with a pick they made seems pretty reactionary.

Why didn't he retire as a Raptor? And why trade him for a player who refuses to be there? That seems like total a massive front office blunder. Especially considering how much Lowry did for that team. Not sure how else to say it.

Suggs was projected to go in the top 4. He was the best player available in all mocks and among scouts. By all accounts, Suggs is unanimously the better player coming in and he would have fitted a position of need with Lowry gone. Just makes very little sense to take a projected worse player at the foward spot. They already have OG, Achiuwa and Siakam. How many fowards do they need?

When's the last time the top 4 picks have been the 4 best players?

i went back and checked it's very rare that the top 4 all end up being good players. These were the best examples i could find in the modern era.
2019 - Zion, Morant, RJ Barrett, Deandre Hunter (still too early to call this one)
2007 - Oden (idk if he qualifies as a bust), Durant, Horford, Conley
1999 - Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Lamar Odom
1996 - Iverson, Camby, Abdur Rahim, Marbury

If we had to pick a bust from this year i think Mobley or Barnes would be the most likely candidates.

[bisme37]

No idea why OP decided he wanted to get smashed on by all of Canada today lol.

[Duffman100]

No idea why OP decided he wanted to get smashed on by all of Canada today lol.

I think Toronto fans would be fine with it (we love trashing our own team) if it had any modicum of footing in reality. Masai is clearly and obviously a top 3 executive in the NBA, it's not even a question.

[macNcheese3]

No, he is not overrated. He brought a Championship to Toronto, through his acquisitions and decision making in shaping the roster.

[gp2015]

No idea why OP decided he wanted to get smashed on by all of Canada today lol.

We don't have any issues with people that do the proper research, know what they're talking about and make valid points.

This is not one of those cases.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Should have moved Lowry at the trade deadline last season and he would have gotten a lot more for him.
Holding onto him when you are going into tank mode anyway never made sense to me. I think he let his pride get in the way of a better deal.
That said, he's still a good GM, though I agree he's probably overrated given the saint-like reverence many fans seem to have for him.

This has already been covered ... Lowry asked to not be traded because he wanted to finish the year with his guys.

If the Raptors found a no brainer deal, I'm sure they would have taken it ... but for an adequate return, they figured give Lowry the closure he wants and get something in the summer. Which they did.

I don't understand how people outside Toronto STILL think Masai is the GM.

He isn't.

He hasn't been the GM for 5 years!! There have been 2 others in that role since he moved to President.

Referring to him as the GM does 2 things. Disrespect their actual GM Bobby Webster, and identifies that you don't actually know anything about Toronto or Masai Ujiri.

Masai is the best executive in the NBA ... not just fot his on court results but what he's done to grow the game overseas and his philanthropic endeavors as well.

If he was running the Knicks or Heat or Lakers... people would take about him as if he was an actual super hero

Can you provide a source for this?
Hard to believe he wanted to stay on a tanking team when he knew he was leaving in the offseason anyway. Lowry is a competitive guy, so I'd think he'd want to be on a team that was trying to compete.
Honestly sounds like something the organization made up and leaked to the media to placate fans who were rightfully upset that they didnt move him for FRPs and a young player(s) when they had the chance and were tanking anyway.

Yeah, we know. Call him POBO if you want, but it's just semantics. Colloquially speaing, GM = the person building the roster. That's what most fans mean by "GM." I don't think anyone in Toronto is making roster moves without him signing off on it, so he still gets referred to as GM. If Bobby Webster feels disrespected by that, frankly nobody cares and he should develop a thicker skin.

Is growing the game overseas and being a good philanthropist part of his duties as GM/POBO for the Raps?
I think it's great that he does those things, but it doesn't make him a better executive imo. Might be different if he worked for the league office and then we could say it is part of his job, but he doesn't.
It's like saying Patty Mills is the best basketball player in the world because of the work he does to bring clean drinking water to indigenous communities. It's a big reason he's one of my favorite basketball players, but it doesn't objectively make him any better at basketball.
And people already talk about Masai as if he's a superhero tbh. I've heard this offseason how he's above tanking and doesn't do that, even though he literally did that last season. I've heard how honest he is and that he'd never mislead a player because he values his word too much, even though in the past players have disputed that notion. He's already as much myth as man as far as I can tell.
He's a very good GM though, which is really all that matters at the end of the day.

[The_Hater]

Should have moved Lowry at the trade deadline last season and he would have gotten a lot more for him.
Holding onto him when you are going into tank mode anyway never made sense to me. I think he let his pride get in the way of a better deal.
That said, he's still a good GM, though I agree he's probably overrated given the saint-like reverence many fans seem to have for him.

This has already been covered ... Lowry asked to not be traded because he wanted to finish the year with his guys.

If the Raptors found a no brainer deal, I'm sure they would have taken it ... but for an adequate return, they figured give Lowry the closure he wants and get something in the summer. Which they did.

I don't understand how people outside Toronto STILL think Masai is the GM.

He isn't.

He hasn't been the GM for 5 years!! There have been 2 others in that role since he moved to President.

Referring to him as the GM does 2 things. Disrespect their actual GM Bobby Webster, and identifies that you don't actually know anything about Toronto or Masai Ujiri.

Masai is the best executive in the NBA ... not just fot his on court results but what he's done to grow the game overseas and his philanthropic endeavors as well.

If he was running the Knicks or Heat or Lakers... people would take about him as if he was an actual super hero

Can you provide a source for this?.

Lowry only confirmed that he asked not to be traded (at the deadline) in an interview this week. He said it was his choice and he wanted to play out the season in Toronto.

[NeoDragonKnight]

Watch on YouTube

1:13 - Lowry will retire as a Raptor one way or another, out of his own mouth.

[gp2015]

Should have moved Lowry at the trade deadline last season and he would have gotten a lot more for him.
Holding onto him when you are going into tank mode anyway never made sense to me. I think he let his pride get in the way of a better deal.
That said, he's still a good GM, though I agree he's probably overrated given the saint-like reverence many fans seem to have for him.

This has already been covered ... Lowry asked to not be traded because he wanted to finish the year with his guys.

If the Raptors found a no brainer deal, I'm sure they would have taken it ... but for an adequate return, they figured give Lowry the closure he wants and get something in the summer. Which they did.

I don't understand how people outside Toronto STILL think Masai is the GM.

He isn't.

He hasn't been the GM for 5 years!! There have been 2 others in that role since he moved to President.

Referring to him as the GM does 2 things. Disrespect their actual GM Bobby Webster, and identifies that you don't actually know anything about Toronto or Masai Ujiri.

Masai is the best executive in the NBA ... not just fot his on court results but what he's done to grow the game overseas and his philanthropic endeavors as well.

If he was running the Knicks or Heat or Lakers... people would take about him as if he was an actual super hero

Can you provide a source for this?
Hard to believe he wanted to stay on a tanking team when he knew he was leaving in the offseason anyway. Lowry is a competitive guy, so I'd think he'd want to be on a team that was trying to compete.
Honestly sounds like something the organization made up and leaked to the media to placate fans who were rightfully upset that they didnt move him for FRPs and a young player(s) when they had the chance and were tanking anyway.

No, this was all straight out of his own mouth, so let's put it to a rest. People should stop commenting when they dont know the situation.

Lastly, Lowry talked through the process of nearly being moved at the trade deadline, before finishing the season with the Raptors. He would later end up with the Heat via sign-and-trade, but the open communication between he and the front office was something unique.

"Masai and Bobby Webster kept me in the loop with everything. We had an open line of communication with what was going on," Lowry said.

"They were like 'alright Kyle, where do you want to go?' And that was their respect they gave me, for giving them nine great years of service," he stated of the chatter at the deadline.

"... I was like 'it'd be cool to go home to Philly or go to Miami' but I didn't want to be traded and leave my guys. Let me finish this year out. Let me enjoy Freddy (VanVleet). Let me enjoy OG (Anunoby). Let me enjoy Pascal (Siakam). Let me enjoy Chris Boucher for another year. Let me enjoy Norm, before he got traded to you guys. Let me enjoy being around these guys because I watched them grow. It makes my heart feel great to see those guys be successful."

Lowry talked about how that open communication was still key in orchestrating the right deal this offseason, too.

"... This summer, I knew the direction that Toronto was heading in and what they were going to do. They aren't trying to tank or anything, they're just going into a situation where those guys are younger and they're gonna let them take the reins, you know?

https://ca.nba.com/news/kyle-lowry-talks-city-of-toronto-being-teammates-with-kawhi-leonard-and-demar-derozan-and-free-agency-decision-on-cj-mccollums-podcast/1vj5wsosjw7ax11z7lrqh2nkx6

[tdotrep2]

The man fired casey who won coach of the year to higher his assistant in nurse who turned out to be one of the best coaches in the league...

he traded franchise player demar for 1 year of kawhi who he knew itd be a long shot to resign and won a championship because of it...

when morey literally could of done a similar thing without giving up a franchise player and they would of won the championship last season.

hes set up one of the best scouting teams in the league, it was him who set it up.

Hes created arguably the best culture in the league with his leadership...

i mean wtf do you want from your president, this is he dumbest thread in the history of realgm. The Raptors went from a joke franchise to one of the best organizations in the league a year or two after he got here... what a **** joke.

[right between the eyes]

So of course he's overrated now because he stayed in Toronto lol had he left the take woulda been that we lost the best GM in the league! Haha

And enough with the idiots who keep bringing up the Warriors' injuries to downplay the Raps championship....every single finals has had substantial injuries of late ...the Bucks woulda never been in the finals let alone won a chip had the Nets not had all the those injuries last year...two years ago the Lakers won because half of Miami's roster was injured...the Warriors winning when Love and Kyrie were out... injuries are part of the game FFS! Enough with this narrative!

[shotsquatch]

Masai is going all-in on positionless basketball. Siakam, OG, Scottie Barnes, Precious, Bonga, Boucher, even Watanabe to an extent. He's clearly loading up on super-long switchable defenders with the potential to expand their offensive games.

It could be a stroke of genius. I'm really excited to see how it plays out. Imagine a starting five of Barnes, Siakam, OG, Boucher, and Precious. That's next level.

[CoachD]

I love these outsiders that say well he's the GM because nothing happens without him signing off.

You mean like, with every team in the league where GMs need their bosses to sign off on moves?

It's so ridiculous

People try to hide their lack of knowledge about Masai or the situation in Toronto with ridiculous general statements.

And if you think there's a GM who has full autonomy and doesn't need anything approved... you're wrong.

[fianchetto]

They have a good scouting team so I give them the benefit of the doubt for now but if Suggs goes on blow up in Orlando, and Barnes becomes just another role player or he busts, its going to haunt this team for years.

Their development team is even better. They can make undrafted players into rotation players.

Also, apparently Suggs had a bad workout for the Raps. That could mean anything from his actual performance to his attitude/desire to play there or play a certain role. Even if Suggs ends up great and Barnes is a step behind, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He's earned it.