We need to have a serious discussion about James Harden

[Eric Millegan]

I drove Uber in Portland for season. Picked up Harden from a hookah lounge on one night.

[DaPessimist]

He can't beat his man off the dribble. I think it's partly because of his hamstring.

If Harden can't beat his man off the dribble, it kills his playmaking ability, which is exactly what the Nets need from him right now.

[HMFFL]

I wish I could invest in future nba documentaries because the future is going to be bright with Brooklyn's big 3 retire. They'll throw blame across the board.

Kevin Durant's decision to team up with Kyrie and James Harden just looks bad. It has set him back for now unless there is a dramatic change before the postseason.

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[Jables]

The people saying he didn't rely on foul calls a few years ago are looking silly right now, that's all I'll say. People say he's out of shape every year, there's no difference there.

[JN61]

He has been better as of late though. Still very turnover prone.

[Diop]

I really don’t think we need a serious discussion

[Ice Trae]

hes fallen off cooked to the point i wouldnt trade simmons. rockets was his prime he wasted there.
hes going to be lethal as a 3rd option but the days where he gives you 30 ppg is over. nets would be lucky if this playoff choker gave them 20 ppg. a younger kyrie is mvp of this team with old grandpa kd and harden heading to retirement home.

yet another terrible take from you smh

[darkse1d]

What the hell happened to him? He went from top 10 superstar to Eddy Curry in a span of 3-4 months. We can't use the out of shape/injury excuse anymore cause it's one month into the season. He should have gotten his rhythm back by now.

He used to be so agile despite looking out of shape and had a really good first step. Now he looks so slow. His 3-pt shots are short and if he's not getting to the free throw line, his numbers look ugly.

15 games into the season, he's shooting 43% from the field. And he just dribbles dribbles dribbles till the shot clock gets under 5 and passes it or does a step back 3. We clown on westbrick for his poor shooting, but Harden has been equally worse. And he is playing next to KD, so he's not even getting double teamed or having the defense focus on him. In fact, teams are just ignoring him all together.

He looks like a shell of himself and for a guy that didn't rely on athleticism that much, he looks so slow out there.

This actually can happen to some guys when they reach their 30's and don't come into the season in the best shape. For a lot of guys if it last a whole season, they will bounce back the next season if they are not lazy.

That said, overall movement and quickness wise, I agree, but to the bolded, his shooting has not been bad, certainly not anything like Westbrook when it comes to efficiency.

Westbrook:
42.7% FG / 47.2% 2PT / 29.2% 3PT / 68.5% FT / 46.3% eFG / 49.8% TS

Harden:
42.8% FG / 47.4% 2PT / 38.9% 3PT / 86.2% FT / 53.4% eFG / 60.3% TS

"Harden has been equally worse" doesn't really make sense here unless you just mean FG%, but Harden taking 7.5/13.9 FGA (54%) from 3PT while Westbrook takes 4.3/17.3 FGA (25%) means that directly comparing their FG% doesn't make that much sense anyways. Harden is shooting 10% higher from 3PT range, his highest mark since his 3rd season back when he was a 3rd option, his eFG% is at his career mark, he's >85% from the line, and his TS% is right around his career mark.

His last 5 games:
22.0 ppg / 48.5 FG% / 37.1% 3PT / 84.6% FT / 66. TS%

His actual results are nowhere as bad as your perception. I can get the discussion about him still looking slower, etc, but the results don't support you saying his 3PT's are short and he's shooting equally as bad as Westbrook, or that he's necessarily inefficient in any way. He's been 55% TS or higher in 10/15 games and 50% eFG or higher in 10/15 games. He's had a TS% of 56.8% or higher in 4 of the last 5 games and 5 of the last 6.

the comparison with westbrook was more of a hyperbole than anything. But thanks for the advanced stats.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Hes been a lot better in the best few weeks. Stop pretending like hes been trash this whole time.

Tonight he was great. Hes steadily getting back into form.

[Funcrusher]

hes fallen off cooked to the point i wouldnt trade simmons. rockets was his prime he wasted there.
hes going to be lethal as a 3rd option but the days where he gives you 30 ppg is over. nets would be lucky if this playoff choker gave them 20 ppg. a younger kyrie is mvp of this team with old grandpa kd and harden heading to retirement home.

yet another terrible take from you smh

be easy on the guy, he types like he hasn't slept in MONTHS

[IG2]

A physically right Harden is the quickest SG in the league. He was the league's iso king for years because there was no way to keep him in front of you.

Now he struggles to get past anyone. This is purely a physical issue. We are only a month into the season though and hamstring injuries can be a bitch. Let's see how he looks around the halfway point of the season (January).

[HardenGoat]

Hes been a lot better in the best few weeks. Stop pretending like hes been trash this whole time.

Tonight he was great. Hes steadily getting back into form.

Some serious hate for this man. The take that he just wants glamor and is not committed to winning is a perfect example. He’s coming off an injury and acclimating to a new group that also lost Kyrie. He’s got some missing pieces especially a lob threat. That opens his floater game as well as the wing shooters. I think after the trade deadline this will be addressed. Meanwhile avoiding any setback injury wise is also high on his list. This forum is pretty rough.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Combination of getting older, already got paid, injury issues, not exactly known for giving max effort early in the season.

[HardenGoat]

Combination of getting older, already got paid, injury issues, not exactly known for giving max effort early in the season.

He hasn’t already gotten paid. He has a lot to play for and any injury certainly could hurt any future max contract. The reason he didn’t sign an extension yet is because he wants to make sure he is on a team that will do everything possible to win. He is taking a risk to do this.

[MikeM]

Harden on one leg, 30 lbs overweight, just back from the club and with NBA officiating collecting their revenge is still dropping a .600 TS%.

Just remarkable.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Combination of getting older, already got paid, injury issues, not exactly known for giving max effort early in the season.

He hasn’t already gotten paid. There goes your theory

He's made $227 million over his career and is making close to $50 million next year. If that's not getting paid, not sure what planet you're on.

[HardenGoat]

Combination of getting older, already got paid, injury issues, not exactly known for giving max effort early in the season.

He hasn’t already gotten paid. There goes your theory

He's made $227 million over his career and is making close to $50 million next year. If that's not getting paid, not sure what planet you're on.

The man wants to win a chip. I guess I misread your take due to the fact he hasn’t signed an extension.

[Sharcm1]

He has played like crap. The hamstring injury really derailed his offseason and it shows. Part of me can’t believe that this is the same guy as last season. Reminder he was overweight last season too and played like a mvp for most of it. So it’s not the weight.

There were issues last season and I assume his whole career probably. The lack of effort was apparent. But his talent made up for it most nights. He turned over the ball a lot last year also. And he played crappy defense all the time. But his offense and play making made up for it. This season the negatives are still there but his lack of play making and offense isn’t covering it up now.

[nfmos]

Harden on one leg, 30 lbs overweight, just back from the club and with NBA officiating collecting their revenge is still dropping a .600 TS%.

Just remarkable.

Imagine if he came into every season in shape and gave effort and energy when the ball wasnt in his hands.

The argument has never been that Harden isnt talented, is that he is one of those players who isnt doing everything he can to maximize those talents and help his teams win. And maybe its not a bad thing, but hes just not one of those players like KD, Curry, Lebron etc that is obsessed with outworking his peers every offseason. You get out of it what you put into it, and no one would ever accuse Harden of being the hardest worker or most focused player.

He reminds me of Baron Davis who was one of the most talented players i ever saw play for us, but had so many things going on outside of basketball, that it never seemed he was completely dedicated. He was never in amazing shape, and he would totally half ass it a lot and just always figured he could just flip a switch. But eventually that lack of discipline to his fitness caught up to him.

[Upperclass]

He played in 4 playoff games on a torn hamstring 4 months ago.. He's injured and trying to tough it out for KD