Who can hold out longer? Ben or philly?

[monopoman]

The issue for Philly is this:

- In order to trade Ben Simmons and get a star back that star has to be asking out. In that case the team trading the star is rebuilding and wants draft picks and young guys, not Ben Simmons on a 30 million dollar a year contract. They want to bottom out and get draft picks.

- The teams that might want Simmons, want him as the last piece to the championship and aren't going to give up a star player in return because they're contending right now.

The only option I see working out for a star is Kyrie for Simmons but if that happens then there's an equal chance it's a disaster for both sides. Will Kyrie retire? Will KD and Harden be upset? Does Brooklyn want Simmons handling the ball when they have Harden? Does Philly want to deal with Kyrie and everything he brings to the table?

But Washington is playing well and even when they weren't Brad Beal wanted to stay. He wants that Supermax contract. Dame might be traded but if he is then Portland is definitely rebuilding and has no need for Simmons. I can't think of a single other big time player who might be on the move, they're all contending at this point.

If I was Philly I'd identify some players who fit in well with their team and are at a level below all star and try for those guys and picks. Can you get another knockdown shooter and a wing defender in return from a contender? Probably. But I don't see the team who's giving up a star quality player in return. Usually when a team trades someone like Ben it's because they're ready to rebuild.

Oh man it would be the best thing to happen to those that aren't fans of those two teams if a Kyrie for Simmons trade happens. It might turn out to be extremely entertaining on both sides.

I would bust out the MJ eating popcorn gif's so fast the day that trade got announced.

It's also a bit of balance in the universe when one head case player gets traded for another.

[Tomjas]

If Sixers owners are being rational then there will come a time when Morey’s job is at risk

“Get a trade or we will replace you with someone who can”

[dhsilv2]

If Sixers owners are being rational then there will come a time when Morey’s job is at risk

“Get a trade or we will replace you with someone who can”

If owners wanted this over, it would be over. These are the same owners who gave hinkie that rope too, they're not idiots who think a year or two years is forever. These guys understand timelines and that twitter and 24 hour news cycles aren't how to be successful in life.

[zimpy27]

I think Bens priority has a different timeline to Philly and their window for success. Ben is looking to build his confidence back and his will to play. Philly is looking to get a decent piece to help Philly win a championship while Embiid is still impactful.

I don't think it's about holding out longer, i think both just carry on this path until a resolution is found

[MrBigShot]

If Sixers owners are being rational then there will come a time when Morey’s job is at risk

“Get a trade or we will replace you with someone who can”

It's not "get a trade" it's a matter of what's available. Replacing Morey will not change the latter. If the owners are being rational then they will realize there's no point in trading him for a player that wont elevate the team to contender status.

[Tomjas]

If Sixers owners are being rational then there will come a time when Morey’s job is at risk

“Get a trade or we will replace you with someone who can”

If owners wanted this over, it would be over. These are the same owners who gave hinkie that rope too, they're not idiots who think a year or two years is forever. These guys understand timelines and that twitter and 24 hour news cycles aren't how to be successful in life.

Embiid is no Ironman so they have a relatively short window

[Geaux_Hawks]

Well it really boils down to how long Embiid can hold out before he decides to pull the same stunt. If Philly couldn't ge to the finals with Simmons on the floor, plus Joel giving them 30+ a night, then how are they going to make it without Ben on the floor?

That's when Embiid could potentially grow impatient with all of this, and tell Morey something has got to give. They're wasting 30% of their cap and playing handicapped against the rest of the league with nothing else to improve with other than pure internal growth. Does Embiid really want to waste 1-2 years playing at such a disadvantage? Which quite frankly, might not even come to fruition considering the list of 30 players only includes 5-10 that might become "available" based on Philly's idea of being available.

Who knows if that means the player is expiring on a bad team, or if the bank is on a RFA, or are they looking at situations where a team might want to shake things up like a Boston with 2 wing stars. This assumes said team is even interested in Simmons. If they're not, then waiting for those 5-10 guys just becomes an even bigger waste of time, because now you're back to square 1, where you currently sit.

Regardless, Philly is better off getting the best fit as a starter for their team that's being offered right now, and whatever other assets that can be acquired, than to waste what they project to be a 2 year window on the possibility of a player being available for them to scoop.

[HotelVitale]

If Sixers owners are being rational then there will come a time when Morey’s job is at risk

“Get a trade or we will replace you with someone who can”

It's not "get a trade" it's a matter of what's available. Replacing Morey will not change the latter. If the owners are being rational then they will realize there's no point in trading him for a player that wont elevate the team to contender status.

Or that it's not a huge deal in the long term if it takes an extra like 4-10 months to shop around for the best possible trade.

[Cubbies2120]

PHI is struggling right now and not looking like a contender.

They were 8-2 looking like a well-oiled basketball machine before Embiid got Covid, this 5 game losing streak is not representative.

They were looking like a well oiled machine with wins against teams because they played some bad teams. Of those 8 wins, only 1 came against a team with a winning record right now (Bulls). The rest were teams with losing records and not even in play-in position right now lol.

[zimpy27]

If Sixers owners are being rational then there will come a time when Morey’s job is at risk

“Get a trade or we will replace you with someone who can”

If owners wanted this over, it would be over. These are the same owners who gave hinkie that rope too, they're not idiots who think a year or two years is forever. These guys understand timelines and that twitter and 24 hour news cycles aren't how to be successful in life.

Embiid is no Ironman so they have a relatively short window

Not only that but Curry, Green, Thybulle, Milton, Reed are all free agents at the end of next season. You aren't keeping these guys for under 25m total and Philly's owners aren't the same that run GSW.

Philly need to make the next couple seasons count or lose their depth. I think a trade for Simmons happens by the deadline.

[dhsilv2]

If Sixers owners are being rational then there will come a time when Morey’s job is at risk

“Get a trade or we will replace you with someone who can”

If owners wanted this over, it would be over. These are the same owners who gave hinkie that rope too, they're not idiots who think a year or two years is forever. These guys understand timelines and that twitter and 24 hour news cycles aren't how to be successful in life.

Embiid is no Ironman so they have a relatively short window

And if you rush this you close his window completely. if you take your time, you don't. What you're really saying is that Moorey has to trade Embiid. As based on what we've heard the 76ers haven't gotten value yet for Ben and without that there's no chance at winning with Embiid. So they either trade them both or they wait, assuming they are the rare team who's building and playing to win a title.

[zimpy27]

If owners wanted this over, it would be over. These are the same owners who gave hinkie that rope too, they're not idiots who think a year or two years is forever. These guys understand timelines and that twitter and 24 hour news cycles aren't how to be successful in life.

Embiid is no Ironman so they have a relatively short window

And if you rush this you close his window completely. if you take your time, you don't. What you're really saying is that Moorey has to trade Embiid. As based on what we've heard the 76ers haven't gotten value yet for Ben and without that there's no chance at winning with Embiid. So they either trade them both or they wait, assuming they are the rare team who's building and playing to win a title.

Rushed would have been a trade before free agency. Not rushed would have been a trade before training camp. We are beyond not rushed now I'd say.

This is as slow as it gets.

[dhsilv2]

Embiid is no Ironman so they have a relatively short window

And if you rush this you close his window completely. if you take your time, you don't. What you're really saying is that Moorey has to trade Embiid. As based on what we've heard the 76ers haven't gotten value yet for Ben and without that there's no chance at winning with Embiid. So they either trade them both or they wait, assuming they are the rare team who's building and playing to win a title.

Rushed would have been a trade before free agency. Not rushed would have been a trade before training camp. We are beyond not rushed now I'd say.

This is as slow as it gets.

We couldn't disagree more strongly. I'm not saying it's impossible we see a deal by the trade deadline, but December was almost the most likely scenario with this off season around the draft being the second most. A deal before the season seemed virtually impossible given there weren't players demanding out...once that didn't happen December was the soonest possible option.

[Yoshun]

I think Bens priority has a different timeline to Philly and their window for success. Ben is looking to build his confidence back and his will to play. Philly is looking to get a decent piece to help Philly win a championship while Embiid is still impactful.

I don't think it's about holding out longer, i think both just carry on this path until a resolution is found

This is how I see it too.

At this point a trade is probably best for both parties and I think everyone knows that. Ben Simmons has flaws, but he's an elite level player and the Sixers want that back in return.

[Memories]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

That doesn’t really work though when you have a player that currently holds 70% of your cap space for essentially doing another. What you’re basically doing is wasting away Embiid’s prime with this huge contract that will prevent the team from signing anybody worthwhile.

At the very least, getting out of that contract and using that money to sign players that will improve your title chances helps more.

[Tomjas]

If owners wanted this over, it would be over. These are the same owners who gave hinkie that rope too, they're not idiots who think a year or two years is forever. These guys understand timelines and that twitter and 24 hour news cycles aren't how to be successful in life.

Embiid is no Ironman so they have a relatively short window

And if you rush this you close his window completely. if you take your time, you don't. What you're really saying is that Moorey has to trade Embiid. As based on what we've heard the 76ers haven't gotten value yet for Ben and without that there's no chance at winning with Embiid. So they either trade them both or they wait, assuming they are the rare team who's building and playing to win a title.

I am not saying that they should trade Embiid

In the ideal world, Ben comes back and Tobias is moved for better fitting piece(s)

Assuming that doesn’t happen then Simmons needs to be replaced sooner rather than later

It will represent a massive failure of management if the Sixers enter next season in the same situation

[dhsilv2]

Embiid is no Ironman so they have a relatively short window

And if you rush this you close his window completely. if you take your time, you don't. What you're really saying is that Moorey has to trade Embiid. As based on what we've heard the 76ers haven't gotten value yet for Ben and without that there's no chance at winning with Embiid. So they either trade them both or they wait, assuming they are the rare team who's building and playing to win a title.

I am not saying that they should trade Embiid

In the ideal world, Ben comes back and Tobias is moved for better fitting piece(s)

Assuming that doesn’t happen then Simmons needs to be replaced sooner rather than later

It will represent a massive failure of management if the Sixers enter next season in the same situation

Taking less than they need back for Ben is the alternative you keep leaving out here. Yeah, it would be bad if by the next deadline they haven't made a move. It would be worse if they took 30 cents on the dollar for Ben and now have Harris (nearly impossible to move for equal value) and 30 mil in salary for Ben that doesn't help either.

[DroseReturnChi]

Morey can hold it for 4 years

4 yrs is his contract. he has 0 value. max is 2 yrs because hes not expiring. ben can hold longer if he gives up his socialite and eat ramen everyday. he should contact his boss lebron and force bibigo sponsor to send him frozen dumplings everyday for free.

[Tomjas]

Morey can hold it for 4 years

4 yrs is his contract. he has 0 value. max is 2 yrs because hes not expiring. ben can hold longer if he gives up his socialite and eat ramen everyday. he should contact his boss lebron and force bibigo sponsor to send him frozen dumplings everyday for free.

He’s a seed investor in FaZe Clan which is going public in a few months

He could retire tomorrow and be an incredibly wealthy guy on the basis of that alone

[MrPerfect1]

If I was Joel Embiid, I'd be even more furious at Daryl Morey than I am at Ben Simmons. Joel (and Doc) burned the bridges with Ben when he threw him under the bus after the ATL series. That ship has sailed.

What should be even more troubling to Joel is the fact that his GM is perfectly willing to piss away 1 - 2 seasons of his prime just to stick it Ben Simmons.

It was always going to be hard to get "equal value" for Ben. He's a talented, but flawed player on a max contract. Our last collective memory of him on the court is choking massively in the ATL series. This whole pissing contest has done nothing to help Ben's trade value.

PHI is struggling right now and not looking like a contender. There are players/packages today that are available and can help them both short term and long term. Maybe those players/packages aren't equal value to Ben Simmons but they are much, much more valuable than 1 - 2 seasons of Ben not playing while taking up $33 million of your cap space that could be used on players actually willing to play and contribute.

This is partially true and partially untrue. If it is Championship or bust, trading Simmons only makes sense if the return makes you a legit title favorite. If the return doesn't make you a true favorite then you are just hurting your draft position and taking away player development time for no reason.