Did the Hawks actually win the Cam Reddish trade?

[macNcheese3]

The Knicks were gonna lose Knox for nothing after this year anyways which is why they traded him away. They still have another year after this to take a look at Cam Reddish as opposed to Knox, who they know won't see any time here so he's already wasted. Cam was a low risk high reward trade since he still has potential to be something.

Having Reddish instead of Knox in itself is a bonus. Reddish will get his burn in due time. Knox had an ok rookie year but after that he faded out. Regardless, it was a good deal for the Knicks.

[Scalabrine]

Thibs is an incredible assistant coach.

Meh situation for Knicks players to be in. Hes not a good head coach relative to his peers- until he shows growth in some of his weaknesses (which, though he's better than he was a decade ago in how he approaches player development & personnel, isn't up to par imo).

Why do you think he's a bad coach?

He has one of the best winning percentages as a head coach in NBA history. He's taking two different teams, that NEVER make the playoffs and have been historically bad, to the playoffs twice! The Bulls were amazing when he was their coach and immediately plummeted in the standings once they dismissed him.

This is gonna be the Knicks second best record in the last 9 seasons. Last year was the first. Noone thought we'd sniff the playoffs last year but we made the 4th seed based on gritty play, tough defense, and TEAMWORK.

Maybe I'm just used to mediocre play at this point, but Thibs is the best coach we've had since Jeff Van Gundy (Thibs was his assistant).

Say something original. The Thibs is a bad coach thing has been stale for a while. If winning is bad then I don't want to be good.

[slicedbread2]

You could say both teams won and loss at the same time.

-Cam Reddish was not thriving playing with Trae Young and the Hawks have committed a 5 year max with him. To make matters worse he wasn't thriving with the other starters and with Deandre Hunter firmly entrenched as the starting 3 who's way more ahead of the curve skill+maturity wise a decision had to be made. You weren't gonna be able to pay all the young guys so it was smart on Atlanta's part to flip Reddish for a future asset in the CHA 1st(albeit heavily pro.). Honestly if they want they could flip Knox+OKC's 1st to Indiana for T.J. McConnell who'd be a perfect backup pg(I'm well aware that he'll be out for the rest of the season with the wrist injury)
-New York figured it'd be a good idea to move on from Knox who wasn't gonna be resigned. Reddish and Barrett went to Duke together and perhaps a fresh start elsewhere would've done him some good. The Knicks have a lot of clutter that needs to be cleared in order to give the younger guys some major burn to see who's apart of the future going forward. Now I don't know if Reddish will be apart of the future for the Knicks but we'll see what happens.

[Sothron]

The Hawks definitely won the trade. We got rid of a guy that wanted to be traded and was playing hero iso ball on the 2nd unit and wouldn't play any defense. Our team is much better without him plus we get a first round pick in the process. Win/win.

That's a very quick turnaround compared to... late December.

The only way they would trade him would be to get a star player in return.

He is both of those things. I would not trade him. Our coach is too entrenched with playing veterans and sticking to rotations even when they aren't working. I think Cam should be starting for us outside of covid/injuries. I think it is possible the Hawks do a consolidation trade using Cam as the best young player in a deal to get a star. I don't know how likely it is. I saw that crazy article as well. There's no reason to trade Cam for a draft pick when you hope the draft pick develops into...what Cam already is? I mean that article was just silly.

Why would the Hawks trade Cam Reddish just to trade him? That's silly talk. They might do a consolidation trade to get a superstar to play with Trae and Collins.

Or in late October:

I wouldn't trade Cam straight up for Simmons let alone half the roster in this proposed trade. Hell no.

Seems like a case of ‘that player was never good!’ only after he has been traded by your favorite team. Based on those comments, some of them just a couple weeks ago, you should be furious about the trade. Not to mention that the ‘silly talk’ (reporting that the Hawks are looking to move Reddish) was not so silly after all.

No one knew Cam had went to our Gm after last season and demanded a trade. No one. So ofc Hawks fans were shrugging off trade rumors because they were coming out of nowhere. And yes, Cam's play was up and down but once it got out he was demanding a trade AND playing for himself on the 2nd unit it made his bizarre hero ball this season make sense. He played great for us at times and looked like a star in the making. Hell he still could BE a star as I said earlier in this very thread that he needs usage and minutes.

So it isn't a "that player was never good". He was up and down. But he was playing selfish hero ball on offense and not playing defense to I presume reduce risk of injury to make sure he could get traded. That makes it more than palatable to trade him.

[BeatDaCavs420]

The fact he wanted to be traded for more playing time....Makes me chuckle lol

[cgf]

Exactly what I'm thinking and everyone else probably as well. What is going on in NY? First Kemba gets glued to the bench earlier on and now not playing a guy you just acquired? Strange.

My guess; Reddish needing to learn Thibs' defensive schemes, Grimes shining, and the FO wanting to sell Burks/Fournier at the deadline meaning that they both need to continue getting PT...especially when hot...through the TDL.

Is grimes shining? Like he's scoring 7 in 20 minutes of playing time. His three point shooting is alright. I'm assuming he's ok or good defensively. You can't beat this guy out for minutes in your third year or whatever in the league if you're cam Reddish? I guess not.

Shining may have been strongly worded on my part, but Grimes has been really coming on over the past 2-3 weeks; with 4 of the 8 games in which he's hit double digits, having come during these past 18 days.

Kid's still just a rookie who wasn't getting much PT early on, so the season averages aren't going to blow anyone away, but of late he's even showing some off the dribble potential...though I'm still dubious he's ever going to be good at anything more than attacking closeouts at this level...to go with the intelligence + 3&D skills that we'd already seen.

Not saying he's some star in the making or even a future starter...but he's worked his way into the rotation over the course of the season & earned Thibs trust as a rookie. So he wasn't going to get benched while playing his best basketball (so far); especially not for some new kid who didn't yet know the defensive schemes.

...which is why it's not an even race, Grimes has been working his way down the track since the summer, Cam just got out of the locker room.

[Roger Murdock]

Reddish stunk in college, stunk as a rookie, really stunk as a Sophomore, and stunk as a year-3 player. He has that game once every 20 games or so that tricks people into thinking he can be good but hes very inconsistent, has low BBIQ, and is a selfish player and person.

I hated the trade for the Knicks and liked it for the Hawks as a sell high when he still has value.

[Prospect Dong]

The Hawks definitely won the trade. We got rid of a guy that wanted to be traded and was playing hero iso ball on the 2nd unit and wouldn't play any defense. Our team is much better without him plus we get a first round pick in the process. Win/win.

That's a very quick turnaround compared to... late December.

The only way they would trade him would be to get a star player in return.

He is both of those things. I would not trade him. Our coach is too entrenched with playing veterans and sticking to rotations even when they aren't working. I think Cam should be starting for us outside of covid/injuries. I think it is possible the Hawks do a consolidation trade using Cam as the best young player in a deal to get a star. I don't know how likely it is. I saw that crazy article as well. There's no reason to trade Cam for a draft pick when you hope the draft pick develops into...what Cam already is? I mean that article was just silly.

Why would the Hawks trade Cam Reddish just to trade him? That's silly talk. They might do a consolidation trade to get a superstar to play with Trae and Collins.

Or in late October:

I wouldn't trade Cam straight up for Simmons let alone half the roster in this proposed trade. Hell no.

Seems like a case of ‘that player was never good!’ only after he has been traded by your favorite team. Based on those comments, some of them just a couple weeks ago, you should be furious about the trade. Not to mention that the ‘silly talk’ (reporting that the Hawks are looking to move Reddish) was not so silly after all.

I kinda assumed there would be a paper trail like this, but couldn't be bothered going looking for it. Congrats...

[Prospect Dong]

Thibs is an incredible assistant coach.

Meh situation for Knicks players to be in. Hes not a good head coach relative to his peers- until he shows growth in some of his weaknesses (which, though he's better than he was a decade ago in how he approaches player development & personnel, isn't up to par imo).

Why do you think he's a bad coach?

He has one of the best winning percentages as a head coach in NBA history. He's taking two different teams, that NEVER make the playoffs and have been historically bad, to the playoffs twice! The Bulls were amazing when he was their coach and immediately plummeted in the standings once they dismissed him.

This is gonna be the Knicks second best record in the last 9 seasons. Last year was the first. Noone thought we'd sniff the playoffs last year but we made the 4th seed based on gritty play, tough defense, and TEAMWORK.

Maybe I'm just used to mediocre play at this point, but Thibs is the best coach we've had since Jeff Van Gundy (Thibs was his assistant).

Say something original. The Thibs is a bad coach thing has been stale for a while. If winning is bad then I don't want to be good.

I think Thibs is a bit like the new version of Skiles. Great defensive coach, great short-term culture setter, but can't adapt his approach to fit the talent available and usually doesn't manage to develop young players, especially if they're offensively minded. That means you need a GM who can cater to his needs and usually puts an expiration date on his (successful) tenure - and I think the league's gradually catching up with his schemes, so you won't see a run like you did with Chicago again...

[cgf]

Thibs is an incredible assistant coach.

Meh situation for Knicks players to be in. Hes not a good head coach relative to his peers- until he shows growth in some of his weaknesses (which, though he's better than he was a decade ago in how he approaches player development & personnel, isn't up to par imo).

Why do you think he's a bad coach?

He has one of the best winning percentages as a head coach in NBA history. He's taking two different teams, that NEVER make the playoffs and have been historically bad, to the playoffs twice! The Bulls were amazing when he was their coach and immediately plummeted in the standings once they dismissed him.

This is gonna be the Knicks second best record in the last 9 seasons. Last year was the first. Noone thought we'd sniff the playoffs last year but we made the 4th seed based on gritty play, tough defense, and TEAMWORK.

Maybe I'm just used to mediocre play at this point, but Thibs is the best coach we've had since Jeff Van Gundy (Thibs was his assistant).

Say something original. The Thibs is a bad coach thing has been stale for a while. If winning is bad then I don't want to be good.

I think Thibs is a bit like the new version of Skiles. Great defensive coach, great short-term culture setter, but can't adapt his approach to fit the talent available and usually doesn't manage to develop young players, especially if they're offensively minded. That means you need a GM who can cater to his needs and usually puts an expiration date on his (successful) tenure - and I think the league's gradually catching up with his schemes, so you won't see a run like you did with Chicago again...

What makes you say the bolded?

[Prospect Dong]

The Hawks definitely won the trade. We got rid of a guy that wanted to be traded and was playing hero iso ball on the 2nd unit and wouldn't play any defense. Our team is much better without him plus we get a first round pick in the process. Win/win.

That's a very quick turnaround compared to... late December.

The only way they would trade him would be to get a star player in return.

He is both of those things. I would not trade him. Our coach is too entrenched with playing veterans and sticking to rotations even when they aren't working. I think Cam should be starting for us outside of covid/injuries. I think it is possible the Hawks do a consolidation trade using Cam as the best young player in a deal to get a star. I don't know how likely it is. I saw that crazy article as well. There's no reason to trade Cam for a draft pick when you hope the draft pick develops into...what Cam already is? I mean that article was just silly.

Why would the Hawks trade Cam Reddish just to trade him? That's silly talk. They might do a consolidation trade to get a superstar to play with Trae and Collins.

Or in late October:

I wouldn't trade Cam straight up for Simmons let alone half the roster in this proposed trade. Hell no.

Seems like a case of ‘that player was never good!’ only after he has been traded by your favorite team. Based on those comments, some of them just a couple weeks ago, you should be furious about the trade. Not to mention that the ‘silly talk’ (reporting that the Hawks are looking to move Reddish) was not so silly after all.

No one knew Cam had went to our Gm after last season and demanded a trade. No one. So ofc Hawks fans were shrugging off trade rumors because they were coming out of nowhere. And yes, Cam's play was up and down but once it got out he was demanding a trade AND playing for himself on the 2nd unit it made his bizarre hero ball this season make sense. He played great for us at times and looked like a star in the making. Hell he still could BE a star as I said earlier in this very thread that he needs usage and minutes.

So it isn't a "that player was never good". He was up and down. But he was playing selfish hero ball on offense and not playing defense to I presume reduce risk of injury to make sure he could get traded. That makes it more than palatable to trade him.

I don't think you can get from "the only way we would trade him is as the centerpiece for a better-than-Ben-Simmons star" to "thank god we got a draft pick in the 20s for him, what steal!" via "once I accepted that he had asked for a trade - something I had previously denied - I realized his play was up and down"; even if there were some evidence that you began holding that position prior to the trade.

If you loved him in a hawks uniform and, a month later, hate him in a knicks uniform then you just aren't offering viable player analysis. It's easy to get better, but it doesn't sound like you really want to...

[Prospect Dong]

Why do you think he's a bad coach?

He has one of the best winning percentages as a head coach in NBA history. He's taking two different teams, that NEVER make the playoffs and have been historically bad, to the playoffs twice! The Bulls were amazing when he was their coach and immediately plummeted in the standings once they dismissed him.

This is gonna be the Knicks second best record in the last 9 seasons. Last year was the first. Noone thought we'd sniff the playoffs last year but we made the 4th seed based on gritty play, tough defense, and TEAMWORK.

Maybe I'm just used to mediocre play at this point, but Thibs is the best coach we've had since Jeff Van Gundy (Thibs was his assistant).

Say something original. The Thibs is a bad coach thing has been stale for a while. If winning is bad then I don't want to be good.

I think Thibs is a bit like the new version of Skiles. Great defensive coach, great short-term culture setter, but can't adapt his approach to fit the talent available and usually doesn't manage to develop young players, especially if they're offensively minded. That means you need a GM who can cater to his needs and usually puts an expiration date on his (successful) tenure - and I think the league's gradually catching up with his schemes, so you won't see a run like you did with Chicago again...

What makes you say the bolded?

He's notorious for not playing young guys, which makes it hard to develop them. I'll acknowledge Butler was an exception, and maybe last year shows he's mellowed in his old age, but his profile to date is very much a guy who rides his savvy defensive vets too hard and won't develop trust in young players.

[DoItALL9]

1st Rd pick & Joe Ingles for Kemba Walker & Cam Reddish

Sent from my LM-G710 using RealGM mobile app

[cgf]

I think Thibs is a bit like the new version of Skiles. Great defensive coach, great short-term culture setter, but can't adapt his approach to fit the talent available and usually doesn't manage to develop young players, especially if they're offensively minded. That means you need a GM who can cater to his needs and usually puts an expiration date on his (successful) tenure - and I think the league's gradually catching up with his schemes, so you won't see a run like you did with Chicago again...

What makes you say the bolded?

He's notorious for not playing young guys, which makes it hard to develop them. I'll acknowledge Butler was an exception, and maybe last year shows he's mellowed in his old age, but his profile to date is very much a guy who rides his savvy defensive vets too hard and won't develop trust in young players.

I know his rep, I was asking for evidence in support of that reputation. Having followed his Bulls & Knicks days closely as a chicago-based Knicks fan, I have never understood where it came from other than unrealistic fans wanting nobody to get PT but rookie scale kids.

Not handing kids PT before they are ready to contribute, is not the same as not developing young talent. At least if you give kids PT once they are ready for it, because there does come a point where players need to play more to continue being challenged.

...but Thibs has had no problem relying on kids like Butler, Rose, Barrett, Robinson, etc. once they were ready, and being patient with Obi has not stopped Toppin from developing by leaps & bounds from the player we saw look like a deer in the headlights to start last season

Thibs doesn't do well with players who aren't grinders, but he doesn't do well with floaters whether they are young or old...so that seems like more of a "Thibs kind of player" thing than a "kids vs veterans" thing.

[The Rainmaker]

Why do you give up a 1st rounder for a player who not only sucks, but isn't good enough to beat out any of your regular rotation player?

[Scalabrine]

Thibs is an incredible assistant coach.

Meh situation for Knicks players to be in. Hes not a good head coach relative to his peers- until he shows growth in some of his weaknesses (which, though he's better than he was a decade ago in how he approaches player development & personnel, isn't up to par imo).

Why do you think he's a bad coach?

He has one of the best winning percentages as a head coach in NBA history. He's taking two different teams, that NEVER make the playoffs and have been historically bad, to the playoffs twice! The Bulls were amazing when he was their coach and immediately plummeted in the standings once they dismissed him.

This is gonna be the Knicks second best record in the last 9 seasons. Last year was the first. Noone thought we'd sniff the playoffs last year but we made the 4th seed based on gritty play, tough defense, and TEAMWORK.

Maybe I'm just used to mediocre play at this point, but Thibs is the best coach we've had since Jeff Van Gundy (Thibs was his assistant).

Say something original. The Thibs is a bad coach thing has been stale for a while. If winning is bad then I don't want to be good.

I think Thibs is a bit like the new version of Skiles. Great defensive coach, great short-term culture setter, but can't adapt his approach to fit the talent available and usually doesn't manage to develop young players, especially if they're offensively minded. That means you need a GM who can cater to his needs and usually puts an expiration date on his (successful) tenure - and I think the league's gradually catching up with his schemes, so you won't see a run like you did with Chicago again...

The develop young players this is BS and always has been. Derrick Rose was the youngest MVP to ever win the award with Thibs as his coach. Jimmy Butler became a star under Thibs after looking like a JAG prior to that. Luol Deng made his only two All-Star games with Thibs as his coach. Taj and Noah were youngters that Thibs loved and trusted. RJ looked awful his first year and has made massive improvements the last year and this year as a player. Quickley and Obi were rookies and in his 9 man rotation last year. He benched Kemba Walker for Grimes earlier this year. This is quite a large sample size to prove this theory of "Thibs doesn't like young guys" wrong.

The guy has been willing to play young guys, they just need to play hard, play defense, and not be selfish. Simple as that.

[bbalnation]

Why do you think he's a bad coach?

He has one of the best winning percentages as a head coach in NBA history. He's taking two different teams, that NEVER make the playoffs and have been historically bad, to the playoffs twice! The Bulls were amazing when he was their coach and immediately plummeted in the standings once they dismissed him.

This is gonna be the Knicks second best record in the last 9 seasons. Last year was the first. Noone thought we'd sniff the playoffs last year but we made the 4th seed based on gritty play, tough defense, and TEAMWORK.

Maybe I'm just used to mediocre play at this point, but Thibs is the best coach we've had since Jeff Van Gundy (Thibs was his assistant).

Say something original. The Thibs is a bad coach thing has been stale for a while. If winning is bad then I don't want to be good.

I think Thibs is a bit like the new version of Skiles. Great defensive coach, great short-term culture setter, but can't adapt his approach to fit the talent available and usually doesn't manage to develop young players, especially if they're offensively minded. That means you need a GM who can cater to his needs and usually puts an expiration date on his (successful) tenure - and I think the league's gradually catching up with his schemes, so you won't see a run like you did with Chicago again...

The develop young players this is BS and always has been. Derrick Rose was the youngest MVP to ever win the award with Thibs as his coach. Jimmy Butler became a star under Thibs after looking like a JAG prior to that. Luol Deng made his only two All-Star games with Thibs as his coach. Taj and Noah were youngters that Thibs loved and trusted. RJ looked awful his first year and has made massive improvements the last year and this year as a player. Quickley and Obi were rookies and in his 9 man rotation last year. He benched Kemba Walker for Grimes earlier this year. This is quite a large sample size to prove this theory of "Thibs doesn't like young guys" wrong.

The guy has been willing to play young guys, they just need to play hard, play defense, and not be selfish. Simple as that.

How do you think he did from 2016-2019, in terms of player development, on the Wolves? Those are 3 years with a team of many talented young players.

When people cite the success of a lot of ex Wolves players now, they reference the fact that the system in place is a lot different than it was back then. My reference is Draymonds podcast and other interviews (whether about Wiggs or KAT).

[Prospect Dong]

Why do you think he's a bad coach?

He has one of the best winning percentages as a head coach in NBA history. He's taking two different teams, that NEVER make the playoffs and have been historically bad, to the playoffs twice! The Bulls were amazing when he was their coach and immediately plummeted in the standings once they dismissed him.

This is gonna be the Knicks second best record in the last 9 seasons. Last year was the first. Noone thought we'd sniff the playoffs last year but we made the 4th seed based on gritty play, tough defense, and TEAMWORK.

Maybe I'm just used to mediocre play at this point, but Thibs is the best coach we've had since Jeff Van Gundy (Thibs was his assistant).

Say something original. The Thibs is a bad coach thing has been stale for a while. If winning is bad then I don't want to be good.

I think Thibs is a bit like the new version of Skiles. Great defensive coach, great short-term culture setter, but can't adapt his approach to fit the talent available and usually doesn't manage to develop young players, especially if they're offensively minded. That means you need a GM who can cater to his needs and usually puts an expiration date on his (successful) tenure - and I think the league's gradually catching up with his schemes, so you won't see a run like you did with Chicago again...

The develop young players this is BS and always has been. Derrick Rose was the youngest MVP to ever win the award with Thibs as his coach. Jimmy Butler became a star under Thibs after looking like a JAG prior to that. Luol Deng made his only two All-Star games with Thibs as his coach. Taj and Noah were youngters that Thibs loved and trusted. RJ looked awful his first year and has made massive improvements the last year and this year as a player. Quickley and Obi were rookies and in his 9 man rotation last year. He benched Kemba Walker for Grimes earlier this year. This is quite a large sample size to prove this theory of "Thibs doesn't like young guys" wrong.

The guy has been willing to play young guys, they just need to play hard, play defense, and not be selfish. Simple as that.

Luol Deng was drafted in 2004. Thibs joined the Bulls in 2010. I think if Deng makes your list of "young guys who Thibs let play through their mistakes while developing" you may just be trying to backfill to reach your conclusion.

I think the relevant list for Deng, Noah and Rose is "guys who played a lot, like really a lot, of minutes under Thibs and then mysteriously declined a lot earlier than is normal" rather than guys who became great under Thibs. And I think that's something you need to be aware of when assessing him, and something that's going to tend to reduce his ability to build up young players who aren't quite as good as his vets.

I think it's perfectly fair to call Butler a guy who Thibs developed into a star, and Quickley maybe deserves some recognition too. I think he'd be fine taking guys in Butler's general mold, which I think is what you're saying. But sometimes you don't get handed guys like Jimmy Butler, and I don't think Thibs has proved he's got the flexibility to develop stars who don't fit his idea of "great".

[Sothron]

That's a very quick turnaround compared to... late December.





Or in late October:


Seems like a case of ‘that player was never good!’ only after he has been traded by your favorite team. Based on those comments, some of them just a couple weeks ago, you should be furious about the trade. Not to mention that the ‘silly talk’ (reporting that the Hawks are looking to move Reddish) was not so silly after all.

No one knew Cam had went to our Gm after last season and demanded a trade. No one. So ofc Hawks fans were shrugging off trade rumors because they were coming out of nowhere. And yes, Cam's play was up and down but once it got out he was demanding a trade AND playing for himself on the 2nd unit it made his bizarre hero ball this season make sense. He played great for us at times and looked like a star in the making. Hell he still could BE a star as I said earlier in this very thread that he needs usage and minutes.

So it isn't a "that player was never good". He was up and down. But he was playing selfish hero ball on offense and not playing defense to I presume reduce risk of injury to make sure he could get traded. That makes it more than palatable to trade him.

I don't think you can get from "the only way we would trade him is as the centerpiece for a better-than-Ben-Simmons star" to "thank god we got a draft pick in the 20s for him, what steal!" via "once I accepted that he had asked for a trade - something I had previously denied - I realized his play was up and down"; even if there were some evidence that you began holding that position prior to the trade.

If you loved him in a hawks uniform and, a month later, hate him in a knicks uniform then you just aren't offering viable player analysis. It's easy to get better, but it doesn't sound like you really want to...

I never said I loved him in a Hawks uniform or hated him in a Knicks uniform. What laughable nonsense. I wished him well in his career except when he played against the Hawks. No one knew he asked for a trade until after he was traded and our GM revealed it. I've had sources for almost twenty years in the Hawks and their arena. They had no idea he had requested a trade either and it only came out to me in private conversation the early morning before the trade was announced. I was stunned we were giving him up for so little and that is when I was told about all the other things I mentioned.

He was an up and down player for us that when healthy showed flashes of being a true star. Sadly, he went into business for himself and that only became clear once the details were revealed after the trade. I wish him well but as I have said before I think the best place for Cam is on a rebuilding team so he can have high usage and plenty of minutes. He had no chance of that in Atlanta or frankly in NYK as well.

[NO-KG-AI]

Recouping anything for him is a win. I didn't watch Cam in high school, but in a year at Duke, and 3 years into the NBA, he's never actually been good at basketball. We're waiting for it to show itself for the first time ever.