Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Utah Jazz

[BarneyGumble]

The Jazz wont do better than 2 top 25 players by blowing it up, so honestly they should try to get Mitchell and Gobert to buy in for another year, retool the roster around them, and bring in a new coach.

That being said if a divorce is inevitable, then the sad fact is you cannot move Conley with that contract and with his age and you cannot run it back with Mitchell and Conley because the short backcourt is a defensive nightmare. Also, Mitchell is a terrible defender at worst and an unwilling defender at best and this creates problems. Also, Mitchell should net more in a trade than Gobert and is easier to replace than Gobert. Gobert, for all the hate he receives, is a special talent and a unique player. Ball hog chuckers that dont play defense are a dime a dozen in this league, so in this scenario you fire Snyder, keep Conley and Gobert, and try to get a big 2 or 3 man that can score and defend the perimeter if possible.

[Ballerhogger]

Mitchell is being asked to carry too much of a load. It's the same problem that Dame Lillard has had and James Harden had for a few years in Houston. Mitchell needs a solid guy to play next to. Jazz won't move him.

Gobert contract pretty unmovable...... So the best the can do is hire new coach, try get some defensive cheap role players.. Get rid clarkson if thats their plan keep mitchell.

Several teams are reportedly interested in Gobert, including Atlanta, Toronto, Dallas and maybe Charlotte and Golden State.

Golden state wouldn’t give up Poole …. Wonder what the jazz would want . Altanta is intresting one I guess bog and collions ? Dallas has the most give but if they want resign Brunson they can’t afford Gobert .Charlotte is intresting but other than bridges who would the jazz want ?

[Catchall]

Gobert contract pretty unmovable...... So the best the can do is hire new coach, try get some defensive cheap role players.. Get rid clarkson if thats their plan keep mitchell.

Several teams are reportedly interested in Gobert, including Atlanta, Toronto, Dallas and maybe Charlotte and Golden State.

Golden state wouldn’t give up Poole …. Wonder what the jazz would want . Altanta is intresting one I guess bog and collions ? Dallas has the most give but if they want resign Brunson they can’t afford Gobert .Charlotte is intresting but other than bridges who would the jazz want ?

The Jazz just changed ownership and brought in Danny Ainge. Normally, I wouldn't think Ainge would want star players traded before he gets his hands on the rest of the roster. That said, the Jazz are probably going to transition away from a Spurs-like system and more towards a Boston-like model, and I don't know what Ainge's opinion is of Gobert.

The league views Gobert as an ideal pick-and-roll big, who plays high-level defense and doesn't demand too many touches. Pairing Gobert with Trae Young or Luka Doncic might change the way people view Gobert, but the Jazz won't move him unless they really believe in the package coming back.

If the Jazz trade Rudy, they'll do it to change their identity and go younger. They'd probably want quality rotation players and a high draft pick to get a young prospect they believe in.

[Catchall]

I don't understand the Rudy Gay signing at all. Yeah, he wasn't great this year...but at some point, don't you put him out in a game or two to see what he can do in the playoffs? Oh of course not, not with Quin Snyder and his ultra rigid rotations.

If it were me, I'd have taken some minutes away from Royce O'Neale and given them to Nickeil. I know NAW has his warts, but as a 5th option who can make spot-up 3s and attack switches that could have really worked. The problem is that Quin trusts Royce to make decisions and move the ball in the Jazz's system. It literally takes guys a year to acclimate to Quin.

[dc]

They should have blown it up after not being able to beat a depleted Clippers team last year

From a pure basketball standpoint, they probably should have but it's a lot easier for people like us to sit behind our keyboards and say that. Owners have to worry about bottom lines and keeping fan interest. They don't like seeing empty seats and apathy. Rebuilding after you're reliably making the playoffs year after year is a tough proposition to take to the owner, especially if they're a small market team.

Remember that after we figured they'd got into a steep decline after Stockton/Malone retired, the Jazz had exactly 1 tanking season sandwiched around 2 .500 seasons, then they were back into the playoffs. They're historically not really good with the tank.

Maybe that changes with Ainge around, who knows.

[Myth]

Don't think Snyder should go. He's a good coach. Think clearly they need to look at the roster. Conley has been bad and paid big money.

Agreed. Last year they looked good all the way to the playoffs (better than they should have been, which I attribute to Snyder). I think they are mostly struggling due to player personality conflict. If they can resolve those conflicts via player movement without significant talent downgrades, I think Utah could bounce back a little.

[Myth]

Several teams are reportedly interested in Gobert, including Atlanta, Toronto, Dallas and maybe Charlotte and Golden State.

Golden state wouldn’t give up Poole …. Wonder what the jazz would want . Altanta is intresting one I guess bog and collions ? Dallas has the most give but if they want resign Brunson they can’t afford Gobert .Charlotte is intresting but other than bridges who would the jazz want ?

The Jazz just changed ownership and brought in Danny Ainge. Normally, I wouldn't think Ainge would want star players traded before he gets his hands on the rest of the roster. That said, the Jazz are probably going to transition away from a Spurs-like system and more towards a Boston-like model, and I don't know what Ainge's opinion is of Gobert.

The league views Gobert as an ideal pick-and-roll big, who plays high-level defense and doesn't demand too many touches. Pairing Gobert with Trae Young or Luka Doncic might change the way people view Gobert, but the Jazz won't move him unless they really believe in the package coming back.

If the Jazz trade Rudy, they'll do it to change their identity and go younger. They'd probably want quality rotation players and a high draft pick to get a young prospect they believe in.

What about a trade revolving around a sign and trade with Portland for Nurkic + #6? Separate Gobert and Mitchell while keeping a serviceable center and having a lottery pick for Ainge to play with. Blazers get an elite defensive center behind Lillard to make up for his defensive issues (who I assume Billups would love).

[slick_watts]

joe ingles not being the same as 2020-21 joe ingles (who was quite good) and then getting hurt derailed the season a bit. paschall, gay, house- none of them came close to 2020-21 ingles. unless mitchell has another gear to get to i'm not sure how they don't get back to 2020-21 levels without some luck.

[FJS]

joe ingles not being the same as 2020-21 joe ingles (who was quite good) and then getting hurt derailed the season a bit. paschall, gay, house- none of them came close to 2020-21 ingles. unless mitchell has another gear to get to i'm not sure how they don't get back to 2020-21 levels without some luck.

Ingles has a playmaker ability that none of those guys had. And he was a dead-eye shooter.

Still House did a good job in limited time. He has no same ability as playmaker, but the guy can defend, and it was missed too.

Frankly it difficult what to do with that team.

I only see as easy try to dump Gay and Conley. Other decisions are difficult, and not only by Jazz.

Some players have to think if they really want to leave Jazz, because if you watch their last all-star, (Boozer, Williams, Hayward) who leave Jazz in their prime, they never were the same and recover his all-star status. Okur was another story since was injured, but the other one were young and only were worse outside of Utah.

[Catchall]

If I'm the Jazz I want a 6'7" wing or big guard with ball skills who can play on the ball in crunchtime. Otherwise, I'm not moving Gobert.

[MrGoat]

I don't understand the Rudy Gay signing at all. Yeah, he wasn't great this year...but at some point, don't you put him out in a game or two to see what he can do in the playoffs? Oh of course not, not with Quin Snyder and his ultra rigid rotations.

If it were me, I'd have taken some minutes away from Royce O'Neale and given them to Nickeil. I know NAW has his warts, but as a 5th option who can make spot-up 3s and attack switches that could have really worked. The problem is that Quin trusts Royce to make decisions and move the ball in the Jazz's system. It literally takes guys a year to acclimate to Quin.

I'm getting Rick Carlisle vibes from this comment as a Mavs fan, especially that last sentence

[NoStatsGuy]

do donnie and rudy actually hate eachother? or is that just a bs narratvie?

[dhsilv2]

I don't understand the Rudy Gay signing at all. Yeah, he wasn't great this year...but at some point, don't you put him out in a game or two to see what he can do in the playoffs? Oh of course not, not with Quin Snyder and his ultra rigid rotations.

If it were me, I'd have taken some minutes away from Royce O'Neale and given them to Nickeil. I know NAW has his warts, but as a 5th option who can make spot-up 3s and attack switches that could have really worked. The problem is that Quin trusts Royce to make decisions and move the ball in the Jazz's system. It literally takes guys a year to acclimate to Quin.

I'm getting Rick Carlisle vibes from this comment as a Mavs fan, especially that last sentence

That was a thing with Pop back in his peak years too. New guys to the spurs, who had any offensive responsibility, needed a full year to get used to their system.

[MTJazzv3]

do donnie and rudy actually hate eachother? or is that just a bs narratvie?

Hate might be too strong but there are chemistry issues. Hard to read between all the lines but its possible that Rudy had some issues with the whole team? Who knows, the team was pretty much in their own heads all season.

[NirvanaFC]

Questions for Jazz fans

1. Has Mitchell always been THIS bad on defense, or just particularly apathetic this season? I remember his draft comparison was Avery Bradley / Norm Powell (also not a good defender but still). He should at least be a decent defender with his long arms and athleticism.

2. Is Gobert really that bad at punishing small guys when the other team switches or play small ball? He looked pretty effective against Team USA's small ball at the Olympics.

[Richard4444]

The Jazz almost went is all-in for the win-now approach investing heavily in vet players.

Next year, they will likely start the season with six or seven 30+years old players in their rotation. The majority are already washed.
Conley, 35
Bojan, 33
Gay, 36
Clarkson, 30
Whiteside,33
Ingles, 35 (if they get him back and he gets healthy soon).
Gobert, 30

I can not see they improve. Especially excel in defending the perimeter with such an aging roster.

Besides, they will not likely receive youth quality return trading some of them with the exception of some mid/late picks and raw young players.

Their "young" core is very thin. They only have Donovan (26) and the raws NAW (23) and Butler (21) and some scrubs.

It's a tough situation:

Plan A: Do nothing very bold. Keep Donovan and Gobert. Only trying to get a slightly better and younger roster by trading vets and picks. But trading future picks with an inevitable rebuilding sooner than later is not a wise move. They will have a hard time getting valuable younger/better win-now players with very few assets. Don't look smart make some effort to keep two players that do not get along.

Plan B: Keep Gobert. Deal Donovan - It's not wise to build a team around a traditional 30s-year-old center who can impact the game when plays against small-ball lineups. Besides, I doubt they will get a great win now player dealing Donovan. They will likely getting worse or rawer players and picks. They would likely lose the Gobert prime window.

Plan C: Dealing Gobert. Keeping Donovan. It would be the smart move. They theoretically could retool the roster more calmly to come back to contend a couple of seasons from now. But I doubt the return of trading Gobert would be very huge. An expensive traditional center who plays poorly in playoffs will not draw too many offers. Besides, Donovan can not endure the rebuilding process. He might ask for a trade. And Donovan can single-handed hurt any tanking attempt.

Plan D: Dealing everybody. Start from scratch. Small market teams hate to restart. They will lose attendance and income. They have only Butler and NAW and it will take time before contending again. But it may be inevitable.

[Catchall]

Questions for Jazz fans

1. Has Mitchell always been THIS bad on defense, or just particularly apathetic this season? I remember his draft comparison was Avery Bradley / Norm Powell (also not a good defender but still). He should at least be a decent defender with his long arms and athleticism.

2. Is Gobert really that bad at punishing small guys when the other team switches or play small ball? He looked pretty effective against Team USA's small ball at the Olympics.

Regarding Mitchell, I think part of the problem is that he's expected to run Quin's offense while also being the go-to scorer. It takes a lot of energy and can be mentally taxing to do this. I think he conserves some energy on defense. But certainly he's more committed to his scoring. There could be some effort problems due to chemistry issues. He may not think that the team around him is good enough.

Gobert is just a limited offensive player. He can take one dribble, but he needs to be in the right position to score. He's actually better going up against a tall, long defender than a wing who can get into his body.

[sca]

The Jazz almost went is all-in for the win-now approach investing heavily in vet players.

Next year, they will likely start the season with six or seven 30+years old players in their rotation. The majority are already washed.
Conley, 35
Bojan, 33
Gay, 36
Clarkson, 30
Whiteside,33
Ingles, 35 (if they get him back and he gets healthy soon).
Gobert, 30

I can not see they improve. Especially excel in defending the perimeter with such an aging roster.

Besides, they will not likely receive youth quality return trading some of them with the exception of some mid/late picks and raw young players.

Their "young" core is very thin. They only have Donovan (26) and the raws NAW (23) and Butler (21) and some scrubs.

It's a tough situation:

Plan A: Do nothing very bold. Keep Donovan and Gobert. Only trying to get a slightly better and younger roster by trading vets and picks. But trading future picks with an inevitable rebuilding sooner than later is not a wise move. They will have a hard time getting valuable younger/better win-now players with very few assets. Don't look smart make some effort to keep two players that do not get along.

Plan B: Keep Gobert. Deal Donovan - It's not wise to build a team around a traditional 30s-year-old center who can impact the game when plays against small-ball lineups. Besides, I doubt they will get a great win now player dealing Donovan. They will likely getting worse or rawer players and picks. They would likely lose the Gobert prime window.

Plan C: Dealing Gobert. Keeping Donovan. It would be the smart move. They theoretically could retool the roster more calmly to come back to contend a couple of seasons from now. But I doubt the return of trading Gobert would be very huge. An expensive traditional center who plays poorly in playoffs will not draw too many offers. Besides, Donovan can not endure the rebuilding process. He might ask for a trade. And Donovan can single-handed hurt any tanking attempt.

Plan D: Dealing everybody. Start from scratch. Small market teams hate to restart. They will lose attendance and income. They have only Butler and NAW and it will take time before contending again. But it may be inevitable.

Gobert not playing well in the play-offs is a false narrative. It’s more like, Gobert can’t cover for everybody on defense in the play-offs.

[CP War Hawks]

The Jazz have no choice but to tear it down. These next two drafts are great for a rebuilding team. They've based the entire roster on older vets top to bottom, but time has run out.

They hit on DM back in 2017 which was great maneuvering but didn't have a young established player on the roster to pair him with. As a Hawks fan, please don't trade Gobert to Atl. He's not right for a young team, GS has his name all over it.

[TheNewEra]

I’m sick of the narrative Gobert is at no fault for how historically bad the Jazz have been in the playoffs. His fan base tends to go overboard with the disrespect to his teammates no matter how they play if he’s not playing ball well. Ricky Rubio had a bit of this pressure around the league until he started to bounce around and the excuses scaled back. In his 30s he might not have the longest tenure ahead but I hope he gets dealt or Mitchell is let go to stop this mess.