Jokic is 3rd this season in wins among MVP candidates

[The Rebel]

Jokic’s offense is not good enough to outweigh Embiid offense and defense combined.

Jokic getting to the WCF in the bubble is irrelevant tbh

You're confusing theory and reality. Embiid giving 100% effort on defense would definitely have a big advantage on that front and we're definitely seeing that impact in the play-offs so far but with the offensive load Embiid had to carry before Harden came to town he just didn't have the luxury of going all out on defense. Just about all metrics suggest that Embiid with this partial defensive effort wasn't much more impactful on defense, if at all, than Jokic this year.

Also sure Embiid was the scoring leader but was he even a more impactful scorer than Jokic this season? 30.6 ppg on 61.6 TS% is great but 27.1 ppg on 66.1 TS% might be even better. Then add the gap in playmaking and there really isn't any argument that Embiid was on the same level as Jokic offensively.

The last point is just straight dumb. We're talking about a regular season award and you bring up the post-season? Not even a mention that Embiid had to face a worse lower ranked team and had massive help from Maxey, Harden and Harris against the Raptors. So far in the play-offs Embiid has less WS and VORP than all 3 of those guys. Then you look at Jokic who has to face the Warriors with no help and you view these as equal situations as well. Arguments like this just goes to show Embiid fans are grasping at straws.

Embiid’s defense is not more impactful than Jokic’s? And you want to say I’m not living in reality? Jokic fans hate defense it seems. That’s why Jokic has been a first round exit the past two years. Golden state was literally attacking on defense. Teams don’t do that to Embiid.

Did you even watch the Raptors series? What about the Hawks last year. I have stats to back up my argument what do you have other than ignorance?


Also the Nuggets we're in the 2nd round last year, just like the rest of your post you cannot even try to hide your ignorance can you?

[HardenToSixers]

A player can play both ends and still be less productive than a player who only plays one end. Generational offensive talents like Jokic, Curry, Luka, KD, etc. can make up for their defensive deficiencies with their historic offensive production.

And Jokic also got out of the first round when he had a healthy team. In fact, he got to the conference finals, something Embiid has never done.

Jokic’s offense is not good enough to outweigh Embiid offense and defense combined.

Jokic getting to the WCF in the bubble is irrelevant tbh

The guy letting Precious Achuiwa run circles around him and being schooled in the post by Jimmy Butler is not a better defender than Jokic. Embiid beats up on teams without real centers and hides from tlreal centers, hell he had 3 fouls in 3 minutes trying to guard Jokic the only game he has played against him in years, since Embiid is always resting.

Funny the bubble doesn't count, the last time the Nuggets weren't missing at least two starters in the playoffs the went to a conference finals, Embiid cannot even get to the conference finals with 3 other max guys and a healthy roster.

He had a bad outing against Achiuwa and who the hell care because we were up 3-0 (thanks to Embiid) and were never gonna lose.

Your Jimmy argument is laughable - our defense is clearly much improved with Joel on the court and we went from being out of the series down 0-2 to very much back in the series almost entirely thanks to Embiid being back on the court. The fact you would try to use that against him is embarrassing. What a horrible argument. Literally nobody cares about some imaginary cherrypicked evidence you're trying to hang onto to put down Embiid.

Comparison of stats when guarded by each other between Jokic and Embiid very much favor Embiid so swing and a miss again.

Saying he hides from real centers just because most teams don't have centers physical enough to hang with him is once again, a laughable argument.

You're clearly not thinking clearly why don't you take a break from the computer.

[3toheadmelo]

Of course the bubble run didn't count. How convenient.

I mean if the bubble is all you got.. your argument is pretty weak

If ignoring the actual games and stats from the games than obviously you have no argument other than being a racist.

Yikes. Calling people racists because they disagree with you on basketball. That’s pretty sad.

[HardenToSixers]

You're confusing theory and reality. Embiid giving 100% effort on defense would definitely have a big advantage on that front and we're definitely seeing that impact in the play-offs so far but with the offensive load Embiid had to carry before Harden came to town he just didn't have the luxury of going all out on defense. Just about all metrics suggest that Embiid with this partial defensive effort wasn't much more impactful on defense, if at all, than Jokic this year.

Also sure Embiid was the scoring leader but was he even a more impactful scorer than Jokic this season? 30.6 ppg on 61.6 TS% is great but 27.1 ppg on 66.1 TS% might be even better. Then add the gap in playmaking and there really isn't any argument that Embiid was on the same level as Jokic offensively.

The last point is just straight dumb. We're talking about a regular season award and you bring up the post-season? Not even a mention that Embiid had to face a worse lower ranked team and had massive help from Maxey, Harden and Harris against the Raptors. So far in the play-offs Embiid has less WS and VORP than all 3 of those guys. Then you look at Jokic who has to face the Warriors with no help and you view these as equal situations as well. Arguments like this just goes to show Embiid fans are grasping at straws.

Embiid’s defense is not more impactful than Jokic’s? And you want to say I’m not living in reality? Jokic fans hate defense it seems. That’s why Jokic has been a first round exit the past two years. Golden state was literally attacking on defense. Teams don’t do that to Embiid.

Did you even watch the Raptors series? What about the Hawks last year. I have stats to back up my argument what do you have other than ignorance?


Also the Nuggets we're in the 2nd round last year, just like the rest of your post you cannot even try to hide your ignorance can you?

Ahahahaha he thinks Jokic is better on defense than Embiid

[3toheadmelo]

You're confusing theory and reality. Embiid giving 100% effort on defense would definitely have a big advantage on that front and we're definitely seeing that impact in the play-offs so far but with the offensive load Embiid had to carry before Harden came to town he just didn't have the luxury of going all out on defense. Just about all metrics suggest that Embiid with this partial defensive effort wasn't much more impactful on defense, if at all, than Jokic this year.

Also sure Embiid was the scoring leader but was he even a more impactful scorer than Jokic this season? 30.6 ppg on 61.6 TS% is great but 27.1 ppg on 66.1 TS% might be even better. Then add the gap in playmaking and there really isn't any argument that Embiid was on the same level as Jokic offensively.

The last point is just straight dumb. We're talking about a regular season award and you bring up the post-season? Not even a mention that Embiid had to face a worse lower ranked team and had massive help from Maxey, Harden and Harris against the Raptors. So far in the play-offs Embiid has less WS and VORP than all 3 of those guys. Then you look at Jokic who has to face the Warriors with no help and you view these as equal situations as well. Arguments like this just goes to show Embiid fans are grasping at straws.

Embiid’s defense is not more impactful than Jokic’s? And you want to say I’m not living in reality? Jokic fans hate defense it seems. That’s why Jokic has been a first round exit the past two years. Golden state was literally attacking on defense. Teams don’t do that to Embiid.

The Nuggets were eliminated in the first round last year? That's news to me.

Ah sorry I thought Phoenix spamming the pick and roll on Jokic in every possession was in the first round. My point still stands though.

[3toheadmelo]

A player can play both ends and still be less productive than a player who only plays one end. Generational offensive talents like Jokic, Curry, Luka, KD, etc. can make up for their defensive deficiencies with their historic offensive production.

And Jokic also got out of the first round when he had a healthy team. In fact, he got to the conference finals, something Embiid has never done.

Jokic’s offense is not good enough to outweigh Embiid offense and defense combined.

Jokic getting to the WCF in the bubble is irrelevant tbh

Dude with a Melo icon telling us what’s irrelevant. Have some self awareness buddy.

Dude with a name of “shark boy” trying to act like he’s relevant

[3toheadmelo]

Embiid’s defense is not more impactful than Jokic’s? And you want to say I’m not living in reality? Jokic fans hate defense it seems. That’s why Jokic has been a first round exit the past two years. Golden state was literally attacking on defense. Teams don’t do that to Embiid.

Did you even watch the Raptors series? What about the Hawks last year. I have stats to back up my argument what do you have other than ignorance?


Also the Nuggets we're in the 2nd round last year, just like the rest of your post you cannot even try to hide your ignorance can you?

Ahahahaha he thinks Jokic is better on defense than Embiid

They think Jokic can play defense like this

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[AdagioPace]

this MVP looks more controversial than it actually is (we recently were in the middle of a "race"). Looking back, in a decade, nobody will care about 2nd and 3rd place (Embiid, Giannis or whoever). Well deserved

[maxwellcu]

This thread:

"Jokic has no argument for MVP".

--- Well, actually, he was historically great statistically.

"Stats don't matter and Embiid was missing Simmons"

-- Jokic's two best teammates missed the whole season.

"MPJ and Murray suck anyway. Embiid is better than Jokic because his team was better".

-- Actually, Denver and Philly won a similar number of games. Furthermore, Denver won more games in which Jokic played than Philly won games in which Embiid played.

"Well only the playoffs matter and Jokic will get swept again in the first round this year, just like last year."

-- Actually, while Denver didn't play well against GSW this year they didn't get swept. Also, not only did Jokic not get swept in the first round last year, he actually won his first round series. In fact, while Jokic hasn't been swept in the first round, Embiid himself actually has. Furthermore, Jokic has a trip to the conference finals on his resume while Embiid doesn't.

"Well the bubble WCF doesn't count. And the only reason Jokic made the third round is because of his teammates."

-- I thought Jokic's teammates suck. Didn't we cover that a few bullet points ago? Anyway, setting aside team performances, Jokic has performed better individually in the playoffs than Embiid who has struggled with poor efficiency.

"NO U R ".

[Sharkboy242]

Jokic’s offense is not good enough to outweigh Embiid offense and defense combined.

Jokic getting to the WCF in the bubble is irrelevant tbh

Dude with a Melo icon telling us what’s irrelevant. Have some self awareness buddy.

Dude with a name of “shark boy” trying to act like he’s relevant

Joker = greatest Nugget to wear #15
Melo = irrelevant

Truth hurts buddy.

[HardenToSixers]

Did you even watch the Raptors series? What about the Hawks last year. I have stats to back up my argument what do you have other than ignorance?


Also the Nuggets we're in the 2nd round last year, just like the rest of your post you cannot even try to hide your ignorance can you?

Ahahahaha he thinks Jokic is better on defense than Embiid

They think Jokic can play defense like this

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

True but I don't even like referencing the last couple games/series because then these people who don't know basketball will start bringing up him getting burned by Achiuwa a couple times. It's much more simple than this. It is really not hard to see how much Embiid changes the game on that side of the floor through his whole career, even if it's not as consistent this year because of his increased scoring load. The dude is a physical and athletic freak, has been a legit DPOY candidate every year since he came into the league, and single handedly anchors pretty good defenses on the Sixers no matter who he shares the court with.

Regardless of the fact Jokic has improved on that end or whatever statistics you want to try and throw out, if you think Jokic and Embiid are in the same stratosphere defensively you are truly exposing yourself as somebody who can't think for themselves or knows absolutely nothing about basketball.

[imDatknicksTape]

the fact that embiid went through drama and turmoil with ben simmons and had similar numbers with harden is exact reason why he should of been MVP. Joker has had the same team dang near 2+ yrs,

[HardenToSixers]

this MVP looks more controversial than it actually is (we recently were in the middle of a "race"). Looking back, in a decade, nobody will care about 2nd and 3rd place (Embiid, Giannis or whoever). Well deserved

Lol Sixers fans will care about this for a long time if Embiid doesn't win MVP in his career, I can promise you that. Not even saying that in a salty way, just objectively speaking that's how Philly fans are lol. However if we make a deep playoff run led by Embiid this will for sure be funny to look back on.

[Capn'O]

If only there were a stat that measured what share of a team's wins a player contributed to we could determine who was most valuable.

[3toheadmelo]

Dude with a Melo icon telling us what’s irrelevant. Have some self awareness buddy.

Dude with a name of “shark boy” trying to act like he’s relevant

Joker = greatest Nugget to wear #15
Melo = irrelevant

Truth hurts buddy.

Deflecting to Melo because you have nothing to add to the convo. Sad.

[HardenToSixers]

If only there were a stat that measured what share of a team's wins a player contributed to we could determine who was most valuable.

True, we shouldn't even have playoffs. Too much statistical variance. Let's just add up the weighted average of those stats of the rotation players on each team and give the trophy to the team with the highest number.

[HardenToSixers]

Dude with a name of “shark boy” trying to act like he’s relevant

Joker = greatest Nugget to wear #15
Melo = irrelevant

Truth hurts buddy.

Deflecting to Melo because you have nothing to add to the convo. Sad.

redacted. trying to make fun of Melo as if he's not a living legend is still soft, especially as a Nuggets fan.

[3toheadmelo]

Joker = greatest Nugget to wear #15
Melo = irrelevant

Truth hurts buddy.

Deflecting to Melo because you have nothing to add to the convo. Sad.

he's been chiming in on the Sixers board thread about MVP and PMing people. not someone to be taken seriously lol

Lmfao wtf who does that

[3toheadmelo]

Ahahahaha he thinks Jokic is better on defense than Embiid

They think Jokic can play defense like this

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

True but I don't even like referencing the last couple games/series because then these people who don't know basketball will start bringing up him getting burned by Achiuwa a couple times. It's much more simple than this. It is really not hard to see how much Embiid changes the game on that side of the floor through his whole career, even if it's not as consistent this year because of his increased scoring load. The dude is a physical and athletic freak, has been a legit DPOY candidate every year since he came into the league, and single handedly anchors pretty good defenses on the Sixers no matter who he shares the court with.

Regardless of the fact Jokic has improved on that end or whatever statistics you want to try and throw out, if you think Jokic and Embiid are in the same stratosphere defensively you are truly exposing yourself as somebody who can't think for themselves or knows absolutely nothing about basketball.

Crazy to me people think Jokic has this impact on defense

Read on Twitter

[HardenToSixers]

They think Jokic can play defense like this

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

True but I don't even like referencing the last couple games/series because then these people who don't know basketball will start bringing up him getting burned by Achiuwa a couple times. It's much more simple than this. It is really not hard to see how much Embiid changes the game on that side of the floor through his whole career, even if it's not as consistent this year because of his increased scoring load. The dude is a physical and athletic freak, has been a legit DPOY candidate every year since he came into the league, and single handedly anchors pretty good defenses on the Sixers no matter who he shares the court with.

Regardless of the fact Jokic has improved on that end or whatever statistics you want to try and throw out, if you think Jokic and Embiid are in the same stratosphere defensively you are truly exposing yourself as somebody who can't think for themselves or knows absolutely nothing about basketball.

Crazy to me people think Jokic has this impact on defense

Read on Twitter

very crazy indeed