Top 3 Lakers Peaks?

[dhsilv2]

Historically speaking we talk about impact and what it means today but these numbers are ridiculous regardless
Elgin Baylor 1962* 38.3 Pts 18.6 TRB 4.6 AST
Magic Johnson 87* 23.9 pts 6.3 trb 12.2 AST
Shaq 2000 29.7 13.8 3.6

Nothing against Baylor but that was less than 50 games that year...

[Ballerhogger]

Historically speaking we talk about impact and what it means today but these numbers are ridiculous regardless
Elgin Baylor 1962* 38.3 Pts 18.6 TRB 4.6 AST
Magic Johnson 87* 23.9 pts 6.3 trb 12.2 AST
Shaq 2000 29.7 13.8 3.6

Nothing against Baylor but that was less than 50 games that year...

the numbers of games hurt sure but never the less he put amazing number up the next year he put up 34 pts 14 Rebounds in 80 games .
He manged to score 1836 points in 50 games still a ton points in short amount of time

[theforumblue]

kareem and magic are routinely top 5ish, shaq is top 8 or 12 depending on the list, and kobe is gonna be ranked around top #20 in realgm soon. just stop talking about him. better off for everyone.

[Tottery]

Well LeBron is obviously not in.

Wilt was past his prime with the Lakers, so I'll pass on him. Same for Kareem.

I think you give one to Magic (84-85), one to Shaq (2000), one to Kobe (2008-2009).

2020 Lebron is pretty **** good. 2nd MVP voting, Finals MVP. He's better than any version of Kobe.
Kareem won 2 MVPs with the Lakers and I've seen people put 77 as his peak season.

I'd probably go Shaq 2000, 87 Magic, 77 Kareem. Lebron on the borderline. Level he's close but the wonkiness of the season (64 win pace but do they hold? He dominated the bubble putting up peak numbers but it was the bubble) probably leaves him out vs Shaq, Magic and Kareem.

You didn't get the memo? That year doesn't count because of bubbles.

[dhsilv2]

Historically speaking we talk about impact and what it means today but these numbers are ridiculous regardless
Elgin Baylor 1962* 38.3 Pts 18.6 TRB 4.6 AST
Magic Johnson 87* 23.9 pts 6.3 trb 12.2 AST
Shaq 2000 29.7 13.8 3.6

Nothing against Baylor but that was less than 50 games that year...

the numbers of games hurt sure but never the less he put amazing number up the next year he put up 34 pts 14 Rebounds in 80 games .
He manged to score 1836 points in 50 games still a ton points in short amount of time

Fair enough, but if we're talking peaks, I wouldn't include a 48 game season. We should also note in an 8 team league if we count baylor 8 guys averaged 29.5 or more points per game that year. That would be like 30 guys averaging about 30 a game today. 2 guys did that this year. The 30th guy in PPG was at 18.5.

So yeah...given that pace and the number of volume scorers 34 or 38 a game is like 25 today.

[70sFan]

Nothing against Baylor but that was less than 50 games that year...

the numbers of games hurt sure but never the less he put amazing number up the next year he put up 34 pts 14 Rebounds in 80 games .
He manged to score 1836 points in 50 games still a ton points in short amount of time

Fair enough, but if we're talking peaks, I wouldn't include a 48 game season. We should also note in an 8 team league if we count baylor 8 guys averaged 29.5 or more points per game that year. That would be like 30 guys averaging about 30 a game today. 2 guys did that this year. The 30th guy in PPG was at 18.5.

So yeah...given that pace and the number of volume scorers 34 or 38 a game is like 25 today.

Actually, 7 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962 RS (Guerin averaged exactly 29.5, then there was West, Oscar, Pettit, Baylor, Bellamy and Wilt).

If we go by Basketball-Reference cutting point, 6 out of 66 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962. That would translate to 20 players in 2022, not 30. 20th player in 2022 averaged 21 ppg, not 18 ppg.

It's true that 1962 was a massive outlier, but it's not the case with the rest of 1960s years. Baylor averaged 34 ppg in next season and the only one above 29 ppg was Wilt.

[dhsilv2]

the numbers of games hurt sure but never the less he put amazing number up the next year he put up 34 pts 14 Rebounds in 80 games .
He manged to score 1836 points in 50 games still a ton points in short amount of time

Fair enough, but if we're talking peaks, I wouldn't include a 48 game season. We should also note in an 8 team league if we count baylor 8 guys averaged 29.5 or more points per game that year. That would be like 30 guys averaging about 30 a game today. 2 guys did that this year. The 30th guy in PPG was at 18.5.

So yeah...given that pace and the number of volume scorers 34 or 38 a game is like 25 today.

Actually, 7 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962 RS (Guerin averaged exactly 29.5, then there was West, Oscar, Pettit, Baylor, Bellamy and Wilt).

If we go by Basketball-Reference cutting point, 6 out of 66 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962. That would translate to 20 players in 2022, not 30. 20th player in 2022 averaged 21 ppg, not 18 ppg.

It's true that 1962 was a massive outlier, but it's not the case with the rest of 1960s years. Baylor averaged 34 ppg in next season and the only one above 29 ppg was Wilt.

Good catch on the 7 vs 8. I did the math in my head and then when I wrote it, I added 1 for baylor when I'd already included him.

30 vs 20 doesn't really change my point. Again the point is Baylor's 62 season shouldn't be on this list. I think we'd agree?

[70sFan]

Fair enough, but if we're talking peaks, I wouldn't include a 48 game season. We should also note in an 8 team league if we count baylor 8 guys averaged 29.5 or more points per game that year. That would be like 30 guys averaging about 30 a game today. 2 guys did that this year. The 30th guy in PPG was at 18.5.

So yeah...given that pace and the number of volume scorers 34 or 38 a game is like 25 today.

Actually, 7 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962 RS (Guerin averaged exactly 29.5, then there was West, Oscar, Pettit, Baylor, Bellamy and Wilt).

If we go by Basketball-Reference cutting point, 6 out of 66 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962. That would translate to 20 players in 2022, not 30. 20th player in 2022 averaged 21 ppg, not 18 ppg.

It's true that 1962 was a massive outlier, but it's not the case with the rest of 1960s years. Baylor averaged 34 ppg in next season and the only one above 29 ppg was Wilt.

Good catch on the 7 vs 8. I did the math in my head and then when I wrote it, I added 1 for baylor when I'd already included him.

30 vs 20 doesn't really change my point. Again the point is Baylor's 62 season shouldn't be on this list. I think we'd agree?

Yeah, I would choose either 1961 or 1963 for Baylor's peak. Way too many games missed in RS and he wasn't any worse in postseason in those years either.

Baylor wouldn't make my top 5, but he's definitely top 10. It shows how stacked Lakers franchise has been historically, there are franchises who never enjoyed as good player as Baylor.

[dhsilv2]

Actually, 7 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962 RS (Guerin averaged exactly 29.5, then there was West, Oscar, Pettit, Baylor, Bellamy and Wilt).

If we go by Basketball-Reference cutting point, 6 out of 66 players averaged 29.5 ppg or more in 1962. That would translate to 20 players in 2022, not 30. 20th player in 2022 averaged 21 ppg, not 18 ppg.

It's true that 1962 was a massive outlier, but it's not the case with the rest of 1960s years. Baylor averaged 34 ppg in next season and the only one above 29 ppg was Wilt.

Good catch on the 7 vs 8. I did the math in my head and then when I wrote it, I added 1 for baylor when I'd already included him.

30 vs 20 doesn't really change my point. Again the point is Baylor's 62 season shouldn't be on this list. I think we'd agree?

Yeah, I would choose either 1961 or 1963 for Baylor's peak. Way too many games missed in RS and he wasn't any worse in postseason in those years either.

Baylor wouldn't make my top 5, but he's definitely top 10. It shows how stacked Lakers franchise has been historically, there are franchises who never enjoyed as good player as Baylor.

Baylor has always been the guy from that era I just don't have a good feel for how great he was. Obviously a talented athlete well ahead of his time. But he just seemed lacking and I can't put my finger on it. Been a few years since I did any film review on him so my memory is lacking.

Either way his box score compared to today doesn't really translate. And 100% if you want to be the best laker peak, you kinda need to be the best player in the league.

[70sFan]

Good catch on the 7 vs 8. I did the math in my head and then when I wrote it, I added 1 for baylor when I'd already included him.

30 vs 20 doesn't really change my point. Again the point is Baylor's 62 season shouldn't be on this list. I think we'd agree?

Yeah, I would choose either 1961 or 1963 for Baylor's peak. Way too many games missed in RS and he wasn't any worse in postseason in those years either.

Baylor wouldn't make my top 5, but he's definitely top 10. It shows how stacked Lakers franchise has been historically, there are franchises who never enjoyed as good player as Baylor.

Baylor has always been the guy from that era I just don't have a good feel for how great he was. Obviously a talented athlete well ahead of his time. But he just seemed lacking and I can't put my finger on it. Been a few years since I did any film review on him so my memory is lacking.

Either way his box score compared to today doesn't really translate. And 100% if you want to be the best laker peak, you kinda need to be the best player in the league.

Baylor was extremely versatile offensive player, he could play as an off-ball scorer, small lineup bigman or secondary ball-handler. His skillset is probably more impressive than his actual impact to be honest. I definitely wouldn't describe him as great athlete first, because it's his scorinf repertoire, ball-handling and passing ability that made him unique.

I'd say he was Luka Doncic of his era - elite top tier player that has playoffs gear and can become the best player in any given series, but not dominant enough to call him the best player in the league.

[dhsilv2]

Yeah, I would choose either 1961 or 1963 for Baylor's peak. Way too many games missed in RS and he wasn't any worse in postseason in those years either.

Baylor wouldn't make my top 5, but he's definitely top 10. It shows how stacked Lakers franchise has been historically, there are franchises who never enjoyed as good player as Baylor.

Baylor has always been the guy from that era I just don't have a good feel for how great he was. Obviously a talented athlete well ahead of his time. But he just seemed lacking and I can't put my finger on it. Been a few years since I did any film review on him so my memory is lacking.

Either way his box score compared to today doesn't really translate. And 100% if you want to be the best laker peak, you kinda need to be the best player in the league.

Baylor was extremely versatile offensive player, he could play as an off-ball scorer, small lineup bigman or secondary ball-handler. His skillset is probably more impressive than his actual impact to be honest. I definitely wouldn't describe him as great athlete first, because it's his scorinf repertoire, ball-handling and passing ability that made him unique.

I'd say he was Luka Doncic of his era - elite top tier player that has playoffs gear and can become the best player in any given series, but not dominant enough to call him the best player in the league.

I take it eye hand coordination isn't athletics to you. Where as that's the FIRST thing I consider when I say someone is athletic.

[70sFan]

Baylor has always been the guy from that era I just don't have a good feel for how great he was. Obviously a talented athlete well ahead of his time. But he just seemed lacking and I can't put my finger on it. Been a few years since I did any film review on him so my memory is lacking.

Either way his box score compared to today doesn't really translate. And 100% if you want to be the best laker peak, you kinda need to be the best player in the league.

Baylor was extremely versatile offensive player, he could play as an off-ball scorer, small lineup bigman or secondary ball-handler. His skillset is probably more impressive than his actual impact to be honest. I definitely wouldn't describe him as great athlete first, because it's his scorinf repertoire, ball-handling and passing ability that made him unique.

I'd say he was Luka Doncic of his era - elite top tier player that has playoffs gear and can become the best player in any given series, but not dominant enough to call him the best player in the league.

I take it eye hand coordination isn't athletics to you. Where as that's the FIRST thing I consider when I say someone is athletic.

It definitely is to me as well.

[dhsilv2]

Baylor was extremely versatile offensive player, he could play as an off-ball scorer, small lineup bigman or secondary ball-handler. His skillset is probably more impressive than his actual impact to be honest. I definitely wouldn't describe him as great athlete first, because it's his scorinf repertoire, ball-handling and passing ability that made him unique.

I'd say he was Luka Doncic of his era - elite top tier player that has playoffs gear and can become the best player in any given series, but not dominant enough to call him the best player in the league.

I take it eye hand coordination isn't athletics to you. Where as that's the FIRST thing I consider when I say someone is athletic.

It definitely is to me as well.

OK, then I stand by Baylor was a great athlete and Luka is well above average.

[JN61]

Historically speaking we talk about impact and what it means today but these numbers are ridiculous regardless
Elgin Baylor 1962* 38.3 Pts 18.6 TRB 4.6 AST
Magic Johnson 87* 23.9 pts 6.3 trb 12.2 AST
Shaq 2000 29.7 13.8 3.6

Nothing against Baylor but that was less than 50 games that year...

Sounds like average ''star'' player in 2022 with so much needed rest.

[dhsilv2]

Historically speaking we talk about impact and what it means today but these numbers are ridiculous regardless
Elgin Baylor 1962* 38.3 Pts 18.6 TRB 4.6 AST
Magic Johnson 87* 23.9 pts 6.3 trb 12.2 AST
Shaq 2000 29.7 13.8 3.6

Nothing against Baylor but that was less than 50 games that year...

Sounds like average ''star'' player in 2022 with so much needed rest.

I'd love to hear the list of stars in 2022 who played less than 50 games...

[70sFan]

I take it eye hand coordination isn't athletics to you. Where as that's the FIRST thing I consider when I say someone is athletic.

It definitely is to me as well.

OK, then I stand by Baylor was a great athlete and Luka is well above average.

Yeah, I agree. Luka is very good athlete, extremely underrated by casual fans.

I just wanted to underline Baylor's skillset more, because a lot of people view him in similar light to the prototype of Dominique Wilkins. He was much more than that.

[dhsilv2]

It definitely is to me as well.

OK, then I stand by Baylor was a great athlete and Luka is well above average.

Yeah, I agree. Luka is very good athlete, extremely underrated by casual fans.

I just wanted to underline Baylor's skillset more, because a lot of people view him in similar light to the prototype of Dominique Wilkins. He was much more than that.

I don't see any comp between those two...though Nique is a weird one to comp. Another guy I don't know how to rank to be fully honest. So maybe in that sense they're similar. Two guys who's impact and stats confuse me and I've never been able to fully articulate it, though with nique there's certainly more film to watch.

[tsherkin]

Wrong is wrong is wrong.

Not really, no. I mean, the word "asterisk" is used in the basketball parlance at all because of Phil Jackson, and that usage it was it is for the sport's fandom now as a result. Turning back to the dictionary definition of the word isn't going to undo that usage, or the momentum it has anymore than railing against the inclusion of "irregardless" in the dictionary. Jackson selected the asterisk to serve as a footnote for a title won with considerations, per the appropriate usage of that punctuation. He did it to troll the Spurs. People continue to follow the spirit of that usage to undermine whatever title they are speaking of when they use it, and that's just how it goes. Which is a shame, because devaluing titles is just... I don't know. Cheap and disingenuous.

In any case, circling back to the conversation at hand, Laker peaks. Wow, are there some really good choices!

2000 Shaq comes to mind immediately, of course, as does 87 Magic. I see people talking about 77 Kareem, but I think the 76 Kareem who scored more, led the league in rebounding and led the league in blocks per game has a case despite his lower FG%. They missed the playoffs, so I can see the argument there I suppose. Either way, a dominant monster. There's the Mikan talk, of course, and naturally some Kobe talk. 2020 Lebron, dropping 25/8/10 en route to a title was pretty insane at 35 years old.

I wonder, what are the criteria for greatness in these peaks? Do we include more borderline teams, like the 45-win 06 Lakers? Because that was a wild season from Bryant, no question. And if we do that, can we stretch a bit for 76 Kareem? Are we defining it by scoring volume? Then there's tons of Baylor to include, no question. Some great choices all through this thread so far.

[dhsilv2]

Wrong is wrong is wrong.

Not really, no. I mean, the word "asterisk" is used in the basketball parlance at all because of Phil Jackson, and that usage it was it is for the sport's fandom now as a result. Turning back to the dictionary definition of the word isn't going to undo that usage, or the momentum it has anymore than railing against the inclusion of "irregardless" in the dictionary. Jackson selected the asterisk to serve as a footnote for a title won with considerations, per the appropriate usage of that punctuation. He did it to troll the Spurs. People continue to follow the spirit of that usage to undermine whatever title they are speaking of when they use it, and that's just how it goes. Which is a shame, because devaluing titles is just... I don't know. Cheap and disingenuous.

In any case, circling back to the conversation at hand, Laker peaks. Wow, are there some really good choices!

2000 Shaq comes to mind immediately, of course, as does 87 Magic. I see people talking about 77 Kareem, but I think the 76 Kareem who scored more, led the league in rebounding and led the league in blocks per game has a case despite his lower FG%. They missed the playoffs, so I can see the argument there I suppose. Either way, a dominant monster. There's the Mikan talk, of course, and naturally some Kobe talk. 2020 Lebron, dropping 25/8/10 en route to a title was pretty insane at 35 years old.

I wonder, what are the criteria for greatness in these peaks? Do we include more borderline teams, like the 45-win 06 Lakers? Because that was a wild season from Bryant, no question. And if we do that, can we stretch a bit for 76 Kareem? Are we defining it by scoring volume? Then there's tons of Baylor to include, no question. Some great choices all through this thread so far.

Phil was laughed at and dismissed in 99 when he said that.

Also you left off West who'd be ahead of Kobe, Bayor, and Lebron!