JJ Redick speaks the Truth - 80/90s NBA vs Today

[sp6r=underrated]

Hes right.

Genetics

Genetics: Evolution doesn't occur nearly as fast as you think.

training advancements, analytics

When you're comparing Player A to Player B, you adjust for environmental factors. A Kareem born in 1998 would take advantage of those things. A Durant born in 1960 would not be able to utilize.


If you don't believe in adjusting for environmental factors what you're really saying is Give Player A all of the advantages of the 21st Century and they'll be better than Player B born in the 1960s which is true but doesn't tell you anything.

Tim Duncan was able to maintain his effectiveness deep into the middle teens despite his athleticism being gone, and haven't spent his youth developing skills that aren't quite as valuable today. The reason he was able to do so is because humans are adaptable and will respond, given their respective abilities.

If you have any interest to figure out how good Oscar Robertson would be today you have to ask yourself questions like:

1. What would his handle look like if he grew up in the current era?
2. How much could his shot improve with modern shooting coaches?
3. How much would PEDs help him?
4. How would modern sneakers that make it safer to jump change his game?

If you're not, you really aren't doing analysis.

globalisation, population growth

These are two the fair questions. The US African American population (non African American, American players are basically gone) was 26.5 million in 1980, 34.6 million in 2000 and 41.1 million today. That is a big change making the potential talent deeper. International is obviously a huge change.

You should also factor in things like childhood obesity which reduces the talent pool. But overall I strongly suspect pool is deeper today

[sp6r=underrated]

JJ sounded like a pompous jerk here with his constant interruption and logical fallacies. As much as I love to dig at SAS's loud mouth ass, this was just JJ acting like a dick here. Nor was he even correct about almost anything here.

What logical fallacies did he use? It’s just a fact that players are better, faster, and more skilled than players in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

I would always tell people go look at a replay of one the Celtics or Lakers game from the 80s. You d be surprised how slow the pace is and how much less impressive the gameplay was back then.

This is not taking anything away from the players that paved the way in the early stages of the NBA but this constant lamenting about how the 80s and 90s were tougher to play in is just silly. People like LeBron and Durant would shred the competition even more so than they are in this era.

Both sides in these debates kind of talk past each other.

The old timers are all way better doesn't appreciate how much population size, globalization , basketball's increase in popularity relative to other sports, medicine extending careers increased the talent pool. It is harder to make the NBA now.

The today's crowd doesn't realize that Lebron or Durant if he was born in 1950, and pursued a basketball career, wouldn't look or play like the Lebron who was born in the mid 80s. In turn a Magic Johnson born in 1992 would look and play differently.

And the time machine game tells you little. Gannis dribble is illegal but he has IQ above room temperature. He wouldn't get called for carrys every play if he play 1979 because he would adopt to the rules. Magic Johnson would listen to shooting coaches. Kareem would pay attention to what the video studies tell him

In short human beings are a product of the environment and if you are trying to do cross generational analysis of which player (or team) was better you have to try to adjust for the environment.

[sp6r=underrated]

Hes right.

Genetics, training advancements, globalisation, population growth, analytics etc etc have resulted in much deeper, much better players.

He’s also right about nobody else in football, baseball, etc., talking about how the ‘80s and ‘90s were better. It’s only in basketball to this degree. And there’s a reason for that—a certain player who played in both decades no matter what always had to be the greatest and the columnists and broadcasters are part of a group who supports and feeds into this. And before anybody says anything about my age, I’m 45 and watched Jordan growing up.

I agree with you about the cult of Jordan in the NBA. But it goes against old-timers too. He never had this airtight case against Kareem or Russell.

He was just marketing god, for reasons I still don't understand, and I am middle aged like you.

[Billy Goat]

JJ has had a lot of resentful takes recently. What's funny is the most popular thing going for the league right now is the argument between this era and the 90's. It sure as heck isnt the on the court product.

[sp6r=underrated]

JJ has had a lot of resentful takes recently. What's funny is the most popular thing going for the league right now is the argument between this era and the 90's. It sure as heck isnt the on the court product.

Today's NBA is great and I love watching it. I am concerned the high 3 point rate leads to more blowouts and would like a little more balance in shooting areas but overall the game is greta

[Pachinko_]

The US African American population (non African American, American players are basically gone) was 26.5 million in 1980, 34.6 million in 2000 and 41.1 million today. That is a big change making the potential talent deeper. International is obviously a huge change.

You should also factor in things like childhood obesity which reduces the talent pool. But overall I strongly suspect pool is deeper today

For sure. Back then even guys who became above average NBA players stayed in Europe until their mid-20's (eg Petrovic, Kukoc, Ginobili etc) or never made the leap at all, or made it very late, like Sabonis.

Same thing for the best American players, they also joined the league later because they tended to finish college first.

Those two things combined left a lot of room for bad players who wouldn't even sniff an NBA roster today.

And a lot of those open spots were filled with big, beefy centers who couldn't even run properly and every team felt obligated to have at least 2 or 3 of them.

[Billy Goat]

JJ has had a lot of resentful takes recently. What's funny is the most popular thing going for the league right now is the argument between this era and the 90's. It sure as heck isnt the on the court product.

Today's NBA is great and I love watching it. I am concerned the high 3 point rate leads to more blowouts and would like a little more balance in shooting areas but overall the game is greta

I dont think that's the general consensus though. For example UNC vs. St. Peters has outrated every Finals game so far.

[sp6r=underrated]

JJ has had a lot of resentful takes recently. What's funny is the most popular thing going for the league right now is the argument between this era and the 90's. It sure as heck isnt the on the court product.

Today's NBA is great and I love watching it. I am concerned the high 3 point rate leads to more blowouts and would like a little more balance in shooting areas but overall the game is greta

I dont think that's the general consensus though. For example UNC vs. St. Peters has outrated every Finals game so far.

I wouldn't draw too much from 1 season of finals data. NBA Finals ratings are heavily influenced by the matchups rather than quality of the games.

Boston is a great team but they lack a name the public has heard of. And there might be Warriors fatigue setting in

[NZB2323]

The average NBA player is better today due to globalization, but the globalization of the game happened because of the players of the past. The Dream Team and Hakeem should get a ton of credit for growth of the game, and without them today’s NBA wouldn’t be as good.

[Pachinko_]

JJ has had a lot of resentful takes recently. What's funny is the most popular thing going for the league right now is the argument between this era and the 90's. It sure as heck isnt the on the court product.

Today's NBA is great and I love watching it. I am concerned the high 3 point rate leads to more blowouts and would like a little more balance in shooting areas but overall the game is greta

I dont think that's the general consensus though. For example UNC vs. St. Peters has outrated every Finals game so far.

Yeah it depends who you poll, I'm sure it's very popular among fans of good or hopeful teams. But I have a lot of friends who haven't watched NBA for years, then tried to watch again because of things they heard about Giannis or Ja or whatever, and their first reaction was "what is this crap LOL". The 3pt brickfest and all the travelling and flopping can be very offputting if you're not used to it, especially for international audiences.

[Lockdown504090]

The funny thing about JJ Reddick is how he only became a rotation player after the league changed the dribbling and carry rules while starting to ignore moving screens by Howard. So admitting the rules today helps perimeter players would be admitting without those he couldn't have played in the league without them.

what rule change regarding carrying and illegal screens are you referring to? the ones that governed mike palming the ball all the way up the court? or the ones that allen iverson used on his crossover? illegal screens have been about distance between the screener and defender, speed of the players moving, and when they set. Theyve been missing this call for 50 years. its just that teams are setting over 100 screens per game in this game so you are going to see more bad screens than 10 years ago.

[Lockdown504090]

JJ Redick on Get Up calling out Old timers narrative on today's players.

Watch on YouTube

Summary:
JJ was annoyed about NBA players today being inferior to the nostalgic standard set by the media about 80 and 90's players/NBA.

Although the segment is mostly about players complaining, JJ did mention many arguments made by the current media, many of whom covered 80s and 90s NBA.


I totally agree with JJ. Only in the NBA, no other sport where 80 and 90s will always be better than current generation, like evolution doesn't matter.

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

nearly every world record was set in the last 15 years.

[RB34]

I don’t like how a lot of modern day players seem to ignore the astronomical advancements in strength & condition and sports science.

[Miami_Lux]

JJ Redick on Get Up calling out Old timers narrative on today's players.

Watch on YouTube

Summary:
JJ was annoyed about NBA players today being inferior to the nostalgic standard set by the media about 80 and 90's players/NBA.

Although the segment is mostly about players complaining, JJ did mention many arguments made by the current media, many of whom covered 80s and 90s NBA.


I totally agree with JJ. Only in the NBA, no other sport where 80 and 90s will always be better than current generation, like evolution doesn't matter.

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

nearly every world record was set in the last 15 years.

I would love to see those studies lol. Seems like a post straight from QAnon.

[TheGOATRises007]

JJ Reddick is a clown.

Why is he mouthing off like he's a HOF player?

He'd be a role player in any era he plays in.

[uraverage]

This conversation\debate was not worth the listen once SAS spoke. Everyone needs to only look forward, the past is the past. Come on, Duke just hired a GM.

[Edrees]

I'm so sick of these arguements. No era is "better" or "worse" than another. They are different, as apples and oranges. Comparison between players and team of eraes requires nuanced qualifications, such as deciding which rule set players play by, or whether those players get the benefit or miss the benefit of growing up in a certain era, and so on. There is no such thing as better or worse.

You might say that Draymond Green wouldn't be on the 86 Celtics team But i'd say Kevin Mchale would be e bench scrub in the warriors with his lack of outside shot and ability to guard the corner 3, and inability to understand how to defend with things like the restricted area or illegal defense violations. Players from both eras would not fit into another era necessarily because they developed their skills and game based on the rules of the era they are in.

JJ Reddick is a clown.

Why is he mouthing off like he's a HOF player?

He'd be a role player in any era he plays in.

He's better than you so under your own logic you can't disagree with anything he says about basketball.

[Miami_Lux]

JJ Reddick is a clown.

Why is he mouthing off like he's a HOF player?

He'd be a role player in any era he plays in.

Really. He seems very knowledgeable to me.

[Dan Z]

Mike Greenberg should've added more to what he said and brought up flopping. Players did some of that in the past but not nearly as much as today.

[Johnny Bball]

Blah blah just pick the other side JJ for TV and then blah blah.

Suckers.