Hoopshype Executive Survey: Top Players Under 25 to Build Around

[Texas Chuck]

It's easy to integrate a well rounded player, but if the goal is to start winning games; there's no reason to turn away from a player like Trae who can quickly become the engine of your entire offense.

This this this.

KG was always seen as more versatile than Dirk, but while the rosters churned around them in Minny and Dallas, Dirk's offensive anchoring proved to provide a 50 win floor. KG's all-around game a 1st round exit ceiling. Both obviously with strong casts proved more than capable of leading championship level teams, but only Dirk guaranteed you that strong of a base.

More versatile doesn't mean more valuable. Not by a long shot. I can't imagine Scottie Barnes gives you a better chance to compete than Trae Young right now. Now if you already have a franchise player, sure. But this thread is about who you build around, and that would be Trae over him and lots of other players itt.

Lol.

I didn't know that still remain Mavs fans hurt with the KG Vs Dirk comparative.

Ignoring the Celtic years, KG only had one good team around him and he carried it to the WCF. Almost the rest of the years, Dirk had a clearly better team around him, including the 1st seed, first round exit.

Bringing this here from nowhere is ilarious and a poor revisionist attempt.

trigger is a perfect screen name I guess lol.

I wasn't trying to shade KG. Over on the PC board where we rank players all-time I have consistently voted KG a spot ahead of Dirk.

I was just trying to provide a well known example of how being more versatile didn't actually lead to a higher floor or chance of competing. KG's greatness is he is so additive so when he plays with other stars he elevates those teams to championship level.

Now that you feelings are assuaged lets get back to the young players instead of these OG's.

[Hood President]

How is Trae Young #9? Are the executives expecting him to constantly struggle to score in the playoffs for the next 10-15 years like he did against Miami? Is he the only player on this list who will ever have a bad series? Is he the only person this list with non-injury flaws worth mentioning?

If we are assuming Zion to be healthy All I’m saying is Trae should be #4 or #5 with Anthony Edwards being right behind him but for Trae to be behind To be behind Mobley, Barnes, and Lamelo is blasphemous.

[QingJames]

The number of people that would build around a centre, wow. How much more proof do you need.

there isn't a single center on that list?

i'm assuming you're referring to mobley, in which case he's a unicorn defensively where he has center height/length, wing mobility and can protect the rim like a center (and has overall great defensive instincts). his perimeter game still has much to be developed but he's shown traits that could make him a fairly versatile offensive player.

imo he doesn't project to be the #1 scoring option offensively or run an offense but him being in an anthony davis-type role is still a very valuable player. if he does play some center he's definitely more of a "giannis center" than an embiid or jokic type, and giannis is a decent player to build around.

It remains to be seen whether he actually can protect the rim like a 5. He wasn’t good at it last year when Allen went out.

What’s special about Mobley is his incredible versatility and mobility as a help defender, and his ability to stay in front of much smaller guys on the perimeter or recover quickly if they get by him/a teammate. I agree he’s like Giannis insofar as that is also the best defensive role Giannis can be put in. Of course, Giannis is much bigger and stronger which has made hin a better post defender than I realistically think Mobley will be.

Mobley’s more like a mobile Bosh than an AD IMO. Although AD never liked playing center, he was damn good at it. Mobley has not been and with his frame I wouldn’t try to steer him towards being a full-time 5.

[shakes0]

I think Luka might have needed those series wins to have this on lock. I wonder if the Mavs had fallen to the Jazz in round 1 if he wouldn't be unanimous? Obviously his playoff numbers against the Clippers were great and the Mavs won all the minutes where all 3 superstars were on the court, but eventually you have to overcome.

Tatum seems like a no-brainer 2nd choice as well. But after that I'm not nearly as bullish as the league is on some of these other guys. Grizzlies fared just fine without Morant. Edwards is explosive, but are we sure he's ready to be built around without Towns taking all the defensive focus? Mobley is cool, but his archetype isn't someone you build around.

I think Trae's lack of interest in defense combined with his physical limitations is a problem, but he's just so far ahead of all these other cats offensively that I'd push him up the list, target a very strong veteran leader who can play and who plays both ways and see if I can't get him to at least try. He's always going to be a bad defender, but if you could keep him from being utterly tragic, I think he does a lot more for you than these other players have shown they can do.

In the regular season Trae is awesome, however he's yet to really either bring the Hawks to 50 wins or have his playoff numbers match his lofty regular season numbers.

I.

WTF are you talking about? The guy averaged 29pts and 9.5 assists in leading his team to the ECF last year.

The pure idiocy/ignorance of this board when it comes to Trae Young is mind blowing.

[God Squad]

Fans get so triggered by these types of lists/rankings.

[Optms]

Lol @ Ant and Barnes over LaMelo

Ball will ascend into superstardom here just like Morant did. And this list will look hilarious. I'll take Zion over anyone not named Luka, Ball or Tatum too.

PS: Trae Young sucks

[JonFromVA]

SGA should definitely be ahead of Green, Cade, Garland, Lamelo and has an argument vs others. He just put up 30/6/7 in the second half of the season on 49/39 shooting despite being the second most doubled player in the NBA. Is this a joke?

Mobley is amazing, but he isn’t a shot creator really. He’s an elite defensive anchor with pick and pop potential. Is that more valuable than a guy who should be a consistent 25 ppg player and lead playmaker, that can get a shot anytime he wants in 2022?

SGA on a good team would have done every bit as well as Ja or Trae. He’s top 4-5 here with Ant, Morant, Tatum, Trae group. Zion IF he is who they thought he’d be, but we don’t have enough sample size yet

Shai played in just 13 games post-All Star break last season and in spite of the 30/6/7 he somehow managed to drop his +/- to -13.6?

No reason to double team the best player on the other team after going up 17 pts in the first quarter.

I mean he finished the season at 24.5/5/6 ish. Also I’m not referring to all star break. It was the last 30 games I believe for those averages. The point is he’s shown ability to be a legit go to player, something most of these guys haven’t. Those are the players teams tank for, not elite rim protectors really. He had an outlier bad start shooting from 3, outside of that tanking him he had a really impressive season.

Incredibly clutch still, unstoppable driving and getting his shots. He’s maybe the most complete player on this entire list (more so than Ja or Trae). As for his plus minus data, did you see the lineups he played with? No team squandered close to as many open shots as his teammates did.

This is a perfect case of someone being stuck on a bad team and flying under the radar, and simply being on a competent roster.. people will suddenly praise him like a perennial all star. All of the data is there to look at.

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Also better in ISO than any of these guys

1. DeMar DeRozan - 4.3 possessions - 1.13 PPP
2. Luka Doncic - 6.3 possessions - 1.11 PPP
3. Kevin Durant - 5.2 possessions - 1.10 PPP
4. James Harden (PHI) - 7.4 possessions - 1.07 PPP
5. James Harden (BKN) - 7.6 possessions - 1.06 PPP
6. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - 6.8 possessions - 1.03 PPP
7. LeBron James - 4.3 possessions - 1.03 PPP
8. Damian Lillard - 4.4 possessions - 1.01 PPP
9. Kyrie Irving - 5.5 possessions - 1.01 PPP
10. Trae Young - 4.4 poss - 0.98 PPP


I’m not saying he’s the best. I welcome debate. But he’s 100% in the mix with the top 4-5, and nowhere near 13th realistically.

Just on the technical point, look at Shai's splits ... pre/post All-Star and his monthlies and you'll see the 30/6/7 is based on his 13 games after the All-Star break. A span of games in which the Thunder went 2-11. The Thunder were +2.9 pp100 better with Shai on the floor on than off which is nice, but not particularly noteworthy in terms of uplift.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilgesh01/splits/2022

And while Shai tied for the lead in ISO scoring, he's actually dragging down the next to worst offense whenever he runs it with a 1.03 PPP. Your filter eliminated a number of players who ISO better than Shai, but do it less often ... which is often a good thing!

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=POSS*GE*1:GP*GE*50&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=PPP

[Vampirate]

I think Luka might have needed those series wins to have this on lock. I wonder if the Mavs had fallen to the Jazz in round 1 if he wouldn't be unanimous? Obviously his playoff numbers against the Clippers were great and the Mavs won all the minutes where all 3 superstars were on the court, but eventually you have to overcome.

Tatum seems like a no-brainer 2nd choice as well. But after that I'm not nearly as bullish as the league is on some of these other guys. Grizzlies fared just fine without Morant. Edwards is explosive, but are we sure he's ready to be built around without Towns taking all the defensive focus? Mobley is cool, but his archetype isn't someone you build around.

I think Trae's lack of interest in defense combined with his physical limitations is a problem, but he's just so far ahead of all these other cats offensively that I'd push him up the list, target a very strong veteran leader who can play and who plays both ways and see if I can't get him to at least try. He's always going to be a bad defender, but if you could keep him from being utterly tragic, I think he does a lot more for you than these other players have shown they can do.

In the regular season Trae is awesome, however he's yet to really either bring the Hawks to 50 wins or have his playoff numbers match his lofty regular season numbers.

I.

WTF are you talking about? The guy averaged 29pts and 9.5 assists in leading his team to the ECF last year.

The pure idiocy/ignorance of this board when it comes to Trae Young is mind blowing.

Last year he straight up got knocked out of the first round and was extremely humbled to say the least.

The year before he shot 41.8% FG/31.3% 3P which is very bad in game shooting. Pretty much his efficiency was saved because he got to the line a ton but if he wants to be regarded as someone whose a top 10 player, you should be expecting his shooting splits to be closer to 47/37/90. If he pulls that off and especially in the post season, than along with his playmaking he's entering that convo.

However, until his playoff scoring efficiency in game is not entirely relied upon FTs he won't get there.

Please note that I was one of the people giving him a pass for his performance in the first round against the Heat, however to truly break into that upper echelon of top 10 players, he needs to be more well rounded in the playoffs offensively. Relying on FTs mainly for your scoring like Harden did isn't going to cut it.

[yellowknifer]

1 Luka (unaminous #1 pick)
2 Tatum (11 of 15 second place votes)
3 Morant (4 second place votes)
4 Mobley
5 Ant Edwards
6 Zion
7 Scottie Barnes
8 Lamelo
9 Trae
10 Garland
11 Cade
12 Jalen Green
T-13 SGA
T-13 Haliburton

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-poll-top-players-to-build-around-luka-doncic-jayson-tatum-ja-morant-zion-williamson-lamelo-ball/

What do we think?

SGA should definitely be ahead of Green, Cade, Garland, Lamelo and has an argument vs others. He just put up 30/6/7 in the second half of the season on 49/39 shooting despite being the second most doubled player in the NBA. Is this a joke?

Mobley is amazing, but he isn’t a shot creator really. He’s an elite defensive anchor with pick and pop potential. Is that more valuable than a guy who should be a consistent 25 ppg player and lead playmaker, that can get a shot anytime he wants in 2022?

SGA on a good team would have done every bit as well as Ja or Trae. He’s top 4-5 here with Ant, Morant, Tatum, Trae group. Zion IF he is who they thought he’d be, but we don’t have enough sample size yet

Mobley could wind up being the best defensive player in NBA history.

[Wall_To_Clips]

1 Luka (unaminous #1 pick)
2 Tatum (11 of 15 second place votes)
3 Morant (4 second place votes)
4 Mobley
5 Ant Edwards
6 Zion
7 Scottie Barnes
8 Lamelo
9 Trae
10 Garland
11 Cade
12 Jalen Green
T-13 SGA
T-13 Haliburton

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-poll-top-players-to-build-around-luka-doncic-jayson-tatum-ja-morant-zion-williamson-lamelo-ball/

What do we think?

SGA should definitely be ahead of Green, Cade, Garland, Lamelo and has an argument vs others. He just put up 30/6/7 in the second half of the season on 49/39 shooting despite being the second most doubled player in the NBA. Is this a joke?

Mobley is amazing, but he isn’t a shot creator really. He’s an elite defensive anchor with pick and pop potential. Is that more valuable than a guy who should be a consistent 25 ppg player and lead playmaker, that can get a shot anytime he wants in 2022?

SGA on a good team would have done every bit as well as Ja or Trae. He’s top 4-5 here with Ant, Morant, Tatum, Trae group. Zion IF he is who they thought he’d be, but we don’t have enough sample size yet

Mobley could wind up being the best defensive player in NBA history.

Mobley is fantastic. No knock on him. But 13 is too low for SGA

[shakes0]

1 Luka (unaminous #1 pick)
2 Tatum (11 of 15 second place votes)
3 Morant (4 second place votes)
4 Mobley
5 Ant Edwards
6 Zion
7 Scottie Barnes
8 Lamelo
9 Trae
10 Garland
11 Cade
12 Jalen Green
T-13 SGA
T-13 Haliburton

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-poll-top-players-to-build-around-luka-doncic-jayson-tatum-ja-morant-zion-williamson-lamelo-ball/

What do we think?

SGA should definitely be ahead of Green, Cade, Garland, Lamelo and has an argument vs others. He just put up 30/6/7 in the second half of the season on 49/39 shooting despite being the second most doubled player in the NBA. Is this a joke?

Mobley is amazing, but he isn’t a shot creator really. He’s an elite defensive anchor with pick and pop potential. Is that more valuable than a guy who should be a consistent 25 ppg player and lead playmaker, that can get a shot anytime he wants in 2022?

SGA on a good team would have done every bit as well as Ja or Trae. He’s top 4-5 here with Ant, Morant, Tatum, Trae group. Zion IF he is who they thought he’d be, but we don’t have enough sample size yet

Mobley could wind up being the best defensive player in NBA history.

might want to slow your roll and wait till Mobley is at least the best defensive player on his own team.

[toooskies]

1 Luka (unaminous #1 pick)
2 Tatum (11 of 15 second place votes)
3 Morant (4 second place votes)
4 Mobley
5 Ant Edwards
6 Zion
7 Scottie Barnes
8 Lamelo
9 Trae
10 Garland
11 Cade
12 Jalen Green
T-13 SGA
T-13 Haliburton

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-poll-top-players-to-build-around-luka-doncic-jayson-tatum-ja-morant-zion-williamson-lamelo-ball/

What do we think?

SGA should definitely be ahead of Green, Cade, Garland, Lamelo and has an argument vs others. He just put up 30/6/7 in the second half of the season on 49/39 shooting despite being the second most doubled player in the NBA. Is this a joke?

Mobley is amazing, but he isn’t a shot creator really. He’s an elite defensive anchor with pick and pop potential. Is that more valuable than a guy who should be a consistent 25 ppg player and lead playmaker, that can get a shot anytime he wants in 2022?

SGA on a good team would have done every bit as well as Ja or Trae. He’s top 4-5 here with Ant, Morant, Tatum, Trae group. Zion IF he is who they thought he’d be, but we don’t have enough sample size yet

Mobley could wind up being the best defensive player in NBA history.

I'd say SGA is probably in the same tier of Garland/Cade/LaMelo at best but I definitely wouldn't say he's clearly better. Trae and Garland have shown similar potential in the context of a winning team. LaMelo turned 21 last month and already has a season of 20/6/7 under his belt and Cade put up 17/5/6, Green 17/3/3 at their age SGA put up 11/3/3 (and then 19/6/3 the year after).

Not a diss at all on SGA. He's much higher on the list in terms of current level of play. But he's also older than most of the guys on the list and his ceiling probably isn't MVP-level. He's probably in the 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA ceiling range-- although Cade and Green might have MVP ceilings, but lower floors than SGA, too.

[Duffman100]

I think Luka might have needed those series wins to have this on lock. I wonder if the Mavs had fallen to the Jazz in round 1 if he wouldn't be unanimous? Obviously his playoff numbers against the Clippers were great and the Mavs won all the minutes where all 3 superstars were on the court, but eventually you have to overcome.

Tatum seems like a no-brainer 2nd choice as well. But after that I'm not nearly as bullish as the league is on some of these other guys. Grizzlies fared just fine without Morant. Edwards is explosive, but are we sure he's ready to be built around without Towns taking all the defensive focus? Mobley is cool, but his archetype isn't someone you build around.

I think Trae's lack of interest in defense combined with his physical limitations is a problem, but he's just so far ahead of all these other cats offensively that I'd push him up the list, target a very strong veteran leader who can play and who plays both ways and see if I can't get him to at least try. He's always going to be a bad defender, but if you could keep him from being utterly tragic, I think he does a lot more for you than these other players have shown they can do.

In the regular season Trae is awesome, however he's yet to really either bring the Hawks to 50 wins or have his playoff numbers match his lofty regular season numbers.

I.

WTF are you talking about? The guy averaged 29pts and 9.5 assists in leading his team to the ECF last year.

The pure idiocy/ignorance of this board when it comes to Trae Young is mind blowing.

And the homerism from Hawks fans on Trae is also mind blowing.

I'm a moderate. I see Trae's incredible offense and I'm in awe. I also see his horrendous defense. I still think he slots into the top 15 players.

But Hawks fans covering their eyes and pretending like his bottom tier defense doesn't hurt his value isn't helping any of these conversations.

[shakes0]

In the regular season Trae is awesome, however he's yet to really either bring the Hawks to 50 wins or have his playoff numbers match his lofty regular season numbers.

I.

WTF are you talking about? The guy averaged 29pts and 9.5 assists in leading his team to the ECF last year.

The pure idiocy/ignorance of this board when it comes to Trae Young is mind blowing.

And the homerism from Hawks fans on Trae is also mind blowing.

I'm a moderate. I see Trae's incredible offense and I'm in awe. I also see his horrendous defense. I still think he slots into the top 15 players.

But Hawks fans covering their eyes and pretending like his bottom tier defense doesn't hurt his value isn't helping any of these conversations.

no, we acknowledge his poor defense and how it affects his overall play.

What we can't wrap our heads around is how there are other terrible defenders on these lists who are worse offensive players than Trae yet they are higher up on the list.

For instance, Ja. It is literally impossible to make a statistical argument for Ja over Trae yet he's top 3 on this list and Trae is 9? Ja is also an awful defender just like Trae.

Trae is the ONLY star player who gets consistently dinged for his defense on RGM. Every one else who sucks on D (Ja, Luka) get a pass.

[Duffman100]

WTF are you talking about? The guy averaged 29pts and 9.5 assists in leading his team to the ECF last year.

The pure idiocy/ignorance of this board when it comes to Trae Young is mind blowing.

And the homerism from Hawks fans on Trae is also mind blowing.

I'm a moderate. I see Trae's incredible offense and I'm in awe. I also see his horrendous defense. I still think he slots into the top 15 players.

But Hawks fans covering their eyes and pretending like his bottom tier defense doesn't hurt his value isn't helping any of these conversations.

no, we acknowledge his poor defense and how it affects his overall play.

What we can't wrap our heads around is how there are other terrible defenders on these lists who are worse offensive players than Trae yet they are higher up on the list.

For instance, Ja. It is literally impossible to make a statistical argument for Ja over Trae yet he's top 3 on this list and Trae is 9? Ja is also an awful defender just like Trae.

Trae is the ONLY star player who gets consistently dinged for his defense on RGM. Every one else who sucks on D (Ja, Luka) get a pass.

That's not true. Derozan was dinged (rightfully for many years). Lavine gets dinged when you talk about where he fits in the league. Donovan Mitchell's value has been under fire lately for his defense. Many other players come under fire.

If you're going to want a player labelled a top 10 player in the league and one of the best players to build around, you're going to see increased scrutiny.

The problem is by no metric is Ja Morant even in the same defensive terrority as Trae Young. By the RAPTOR stat Trae was the 6th worst defender in the league for those that qualify. 6th! Morant was the 76th. Where as if you look at them one offense, Trae is the 2nd best, Morant is the 7th.

Clearly there is something NBA execs see where they view the offensive tradeoff of Morant vs Trae is not nearly the gulf that the defensive tradeoff is.

[Vampirate]

WTF are you talking about? The guy averaged 29pts and 9.5 assists in leading his team to the ECF last year.

The pure idiocy/ignorance of this board when it comes to Trae Young is mind blowing.

And the homerism from Hawks fans on Trae is also mind blowing.

I'm a moderate. I see Trae's incredible offense and I'm in awe. I also see his horrendous defense. I still think he slots into the top 15 players.

But Hawks fans covering their eyes and pretending like his bottom tier defense doesn't hurt his value isn't helping any of these conversations.

no, we acknowledge his poor defense and how it affects his overall play.

What we can't wrap our heads around is how there are other terrible defenders on these lists who are worse offensive players than Trae yet they are higher up on the list.

For instance, Ja. It is literally impossible to make a statistical argument for Ja over Trae yet he's top 3 on this list and Trae is 9? Ja is also an awful defender just like Trae.

Trae is the ONLY star player who gets consistently dinged for his defense on RGM. Every one else who sucks on D (Ja, Luka) get a pass.

I'm going to simply put it this way.

If Trae can average for an entire playoffs what he did that season 28PPG on (46% FG/ 38% 3P /90% FT) 9 .7 Assists/4TO

If he does that for an entire playoffs, then he'll shoot up these rankings easily.

Straight up, in order for him to go higher, he simply needs to shoot much better than what he currently has. Even when he put up 28PPG, he did it on 41 FG%/ 31% 3P%.

And yes, that matters when you are comparing Trae to the very best players, or players whom have tons of potential but only finished their rookie year.

[Wall_To_Clips]

SGA should definitely be ahead of Green, Cade, Garland, Lamelo and has an argument vs others. He just put up 30/6/7 in the second half of the season on 49/39 shooting despite being the second most doubled player in the NBA. Is this a joke?

Mobley is amazing, but he isn’t a shot creator really. He’s an elite defensive anchor with pick and pop potential. Is that more valuable than a guy who should be a consistent 25 ppg player and lead playmaker, that can get a shot anytime he wants in 2022?

SGA on a good team would have done every bit as well as Ja or Trae. He’s top 4-5 here with Ant, Morant, Tatum, Trae group. Zion IF he is who they thought he’d be, but we don’t have enough sample size yet

Mobley could wind up being the best defensive player in NBA history.

I'd say SGA is probably in the same tier of Garland/Cade/LaMelo at best but I definitely wouldn't say he's clearly better. Trae and Garland have shown similar potential in the context of a winning team. LaMelo turned 21 last month and already has a season of 20/6/7 under his belt and Cade put up 17/5/6, Green 17/3/3 at their age SGA put up 11/3/3 (and then 19/6/3 the year after).

Not a diss at all on SGA. He's much higher on the list in terms of current level of play. But he's also older than most of the guys on the list and his ceiling probably isn't MVP-level. He's probably in the 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA ceiling range-- although Cade and Green might have MVP ceilings, but lower floors than SGA, too.

Green and Cade have shown nothing close to SGA to deserve this nod. Also his ceiling is definitely not 2nd/3rd team. He won’t ever be MVP, but I can definitely see him with multiple 2nd team and maybe a 1st in one season. He’s got top 5-10 player potential for his peak seasons.

Not in the Luka, Embiid, Jokic, Giannis tier.. but the next tier. Booker finished top 3 in MVP as a worse player to give you an idea. He’s in the same tier with him and Tatum IMO. Garland is nice, but not in this tier. Nothing tells me these guys have MVP potential you’re mentioning.

Cade 17/5 isn’t that great to me (but his metrics are impressive for his age in terms of playmaking). 17 ppg today is equal to 12 ppg a decade ago, and it’s not hard to score now. If you put up 17 ppg now, even as a rookie it’s very meh.

Lamelo I do think has top 10 player peak potential as well, so I won’t bash him or say he doesn’t have a great argument. My only point was SGA should be in the top 7 here, maybe top 4-5. He’s definitely nowhere near 13.

[Vampirate]

Mobley could wind up being the best defensive player in NBA history.

I'd say SGA is probably in the same tier of Garland/Cade/LaMelo at best but I definitely wouldn't say he's clearly better. Trae and Garland have shown similar potential in the context of a winning team. LaMelo turned 21 last month and already has a season of 20/6/7 under his belt and Cade put up 17/5/6, Green 17/3/3 at their age SGA put up 11/3/3 (and then 19/6/3 the year after).

Not a diss at all on SGA. He's much higher on the list in terms of current level of play. But he's also older than most of the guys on the list and his ceiling probably isn't MVP-level. He's probably in the 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA ceiling range-- although Cade and Green might have MVP ceilings, but lower floors than SGA, too.

Green and Cade have shown nothing close to SGA to deserve this nod. Also his ceiling is definitely not 2nd/3rd team. He won’t ever be MVP, but I can definitely see him with multiple 2nd team and maybe a 1st in one season. He’s got top 5-10 player potential for his peak seasons.

Not in the Luka, Embiid, Jokic, Giannis tier.. but the next tier. Booker finished top 3 in MVP as a worse player to give you an idea. He’s in the same tier with him and Tatum IMO. Garland is nice, but not in this tier. Nothing tells me these guys have MVP potential you’re mentioning.

Cade 17/5 isn’t that great to me (but his metrics are impressive for his age in terms of playmaking). 17 ppg today is equal to 12 ppg a decade ago, and it’s not hard to score now. If you put up 17 ppg now, even as a rookie it’s very meh.

Lamelo I do think has top 10 player peak potential as well, so I won’t bash him or say he doesn’t have a great argument. My only point was SGA should be in the top 7 here, maybe top 4-5. He’s definitely nowhere near 13.

Look beyond scoring here.

First of all Tatum is easily a better player than SGA is. Tatum is a better rebounder, defender and scorer (we need to account for Tatums post season resume). SGA is the better passer.

Lamelo is one of the best passing players in the NBA, if his scoring/efficiency takes a leap year 3 than he's basically surpassed SGA as he's also a better rebounder and already a better facilitator (easily).

Cade and Green were rookies, it's like you are comparing current SGA with rookie SGA, it can go either way.

SGA atm is pretty much in the Bulls version of Zach Levine tier (who btw, is an excellent scorer).

Atm, SGA just isn't multi faceted enough in what he's good-elite at to be put into the Tatum tier (neither is Booker btw)

[shangrila]

Oh God no, We'll see again Hawks fan saying that Trae is underrated and underappreciated

Are we wrong?

Ja at #3 and Trae at #9. What exactly has Ja done to prove he is a better prospect than Trae let alone 6 spots higher?


I'll tell you this, if Ja or Tatum or Lebron or any star in the league led the league in points and assists in the same season the media and this board would be so far up that players rear end we wouldn't hear the end of it. Trae does it and its crickets around here.

Westbrick won MVP for averaging a triple double which is way easier and way less impressive than leading the league in scoring and assists yet no one gives Trae any credit.

Westbrook had 2518 points and 840 assists in his MVP season averaging 31.6 ppg and 10.4 apg. James Harden had 907 assists and averaged 11.2 apg, beating Russ out for 'most assists'.

Trae had points 2155 points and 737 assists last season, averaging 28.4 ppg and 9.7 apg.

Not sure how Westbrooks feat was way easier, as he eclipsed Traes stats plus had 10 boards a game.

Brutal.

Westbrook had the better record that year too.

[Wall_To_Clips]

I'd say SGA is probably in the same tier of Garland/Cade/LaMelo at best but I definitely wouldn't say he's clearly better. Trae and Garland have shown similar potential in the context of a winning team. LaMelo turned 21 last month and already has a season of 20/6/7 under his belt and Cade put up 17/5/6, Green 17/3/3 at their age SGA put up 11/3/3 (and then 19/6/3 the year after).

Not a diss at all on SGA. He's much higher on the list in terms of current level of play. But he's also older than most of the guys on the list and his ceiling probably isn't MVP-level. He's probably in the 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA ceiling range-- although Cade and Green might have MVP ceilings, but lower floors than SGA, too.

Green and Cade have shown nothing close to SGA to deserve this nod. Also his ceiling is definitely not 2nd/3rd team. He won’t ever be MVP, but I can definitely see him with multiple 2nd team and maybe a 1st in one season. He’s got top 5-10 player potential for his peak seasons.

Not in the Luka, Embiid, Jokic, Giannis tier.. but the next tier. Booker finished top 3 in MVP as a worse player to give you an idea. He’s in the same tier with him and Tatum IMO. Garland is nice, but not in this tier. Nothing tells me these guys have MVP potential you’re mentioning.

Cade 17/5 isn’t that great to me (but his metrics are impressive for his age in terms of playmaking). 17 ppg today is equal to 12 ppg a decade ago, and it’s not hard to score now. If you put up 17 ppg now, even as a rookie it’s very meh.

Lamelo I do think has top 10 player peak potential as well, so I won’t bash him or say he doesn’t have a great argument. My only point was SGA should be in the top 7 here, maybe top 4-5. He’s definitely nowhere near 13.

Look beyond scoring here.

First of all Tatum is easily a better player than SGA is. Tatum is a better rebounder, defender and scorer (we need to account for Tatums post season resume). SGA is the better passer.

Lamelo is one of the best passing players in the NBA, if his scoring/efficiency takes a leap year 3 than he's basically surpassed SGA as he's also a better rebounder and already a better facilitator (easily).

Cade and Green were rookies, it's like you are comparing current SGA with rookie SGA, it can go either way.

SGA atm is pretty much in the Bulls version of Zach Levine tier (who btw, is an excellent scorer).

Atm, SGA just isn't multi faceted enough in what he's good-elite at to be put into the Tatum tier (neither is Booker btw)

Dude, are we playing opposites? SGA has less holes in his game than almost all of these guys. It’s not just scoring. He’s a fantastic playmaker, solid defender, super clutch. He’s not only a 3 level scorer but not as weak in playmaking and defense as many of these guys. He’s arguably the least one dimensional player on the list.